I cried watching this. Americans and NATO bombing babies, Every human much watch. Spread It!

Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by predator0187

 

I still don't know with certainty whether the libya intervention was the right thing to do. I may give that impression in all my posts and threads, but the reality is that all of these things are my attempt at a conclusion. But it's only a conclusion on the surface. Underneath inside my mind there's no conclusion yet. I don't have conviction or passion about my thoughts like some do. The problem with the libya intervention was it was too pre-emptive. It was not like pearl harbor where Japan attacks us and we're forced to defend ourselves. More and more wars it seems are less and less clear with respect to their justification. They're getting more abstract. Hard to grasp.

Having said that, Libya's leader did not have the benefit of hte doubt due to his past actions. That's what this boils down to. So while I do not have conviction, I can understand why we intervened. If Gadaffi hd worked harder to earn our trust it would have turned out differently.

edit on 10-1-2012 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

Yes, this war was justified as a human rights intervention. It would be the same as if we went into Darfur you know where all the liberals are whining about the genocide there.

Nothing can bring me to my knees like seeing little children hurt and afraid. I'm sobbing like a big oaf right now.
Damn you Predator SnF.

I guess all the other countries that have been and are still in Iraq and Afghanistan are all ok. It's funny how people are calling the Taliban courageous and what-not, are neglecting the fact that he same radical fundamentalists are taking over Europe.

Why didn't you lazy Europeans stand up to your goverents on supporting evil America, even more on your multiculturism policies? As far I'm concerned, I do believe France, UK, Germany, Switzerland, and Denmark still have troops in Afghanistan. Again, my voice is mute here because I'm a lazy American that has an IQ of a potato.

Why don't you all just come over and wipe us off the map so that the world will be at peace, since all of the world's strife is caused by the U.S.

POTUS decided this on his own and has the ire of Americans and Congress but for the record France fired the first shot

A French plane fired the first shots against Libyan government targets at 1645 GMT, destroying a number of military vehicles, according to a military spokesman. UK Prime Minister David Cameron confirmed that British planes are in action over Libya and said that the decision was “necessary, legal and right”..

en.mercopress.com...

Surprisingly, it was a show of support for our UK allies, even though POTUS snubbed the British by sending back the bust(by the way we want it back when this POTUS leaves the WH)

I'm English UK born and if my government calls themselves English then I'm not, I hate how "Apparently" governments represent our country's. Mine don't. And I think I can speak for some of our USA friends when I say I they think this too.

I hate how the government bombs these country's and lie to us saying it for the good of our nation, if its not good for their nation how can it be good for ours? The only thing it is good for is spreading hate for our nations in foreign lands! I hope one day our governments are over-frown with people that feel more than think..... Maybe the world will be a better place.

reply to post by definity

Gaddafi really was a tyrant, though. He evne required school children to read his green book (mein kampf mean anything to you?) But was it all worth it? Are we really better off?

Are we truly better off now than we would have been had we not invaded iraq in 2003?

These kinds of questions can't be answered. There's always an amount of doubt.

Since we can't look at other time-lines, we'll probably argue into eternity about it.

reply to post by Jace26


You must not be American, not all Americans like war! Don't sit there and say that we rap women and children when that # has been going on over there forever, they are no better than us

Posted it to Facebook, and now going to pick up my kids from school early and give them big hugs. The horror is unimaginable.

I know our troops are just doing their jobs, and I know our pilots are trying to do what keeps us safer, but I also know that our politicians are not doing any of this for the right reasons, and our troops have faulty information. The whole thing is a sick business and manufactured need to fuel an industry. It is sickening, and I want out of it. How do I opt out of the whole dam evil machine?

reply to post by amongus


I'm sorry to break it to you but not everyone abides by your standards on who should and who shouldn't post on this website.

You need to realize there are more people in this world that have different opinions than yours. It's not just you here.

It's a terrible shame. I just don't get why we have to get our hands dirty for doing what other countries should be taking care of themselves. Unfortunately the US will get hit hard one day with likely a nuclear weapon. It very well could be by the same monsters that are in the video.

reply to post by jonnywhite


With gadaffi Britain did nothing to him but he still supplied to IRA with Semtex 100s of women and children was killed because of bomb blasts.

these Muslim country's aren't as innocent as you think.they have been at war with us ever since they figured how to get across the pond 1000s of years ago.

reply to post by SupersonicSerpent

I know a bit about it:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Read that, all of it, before commenting about me.

All I'm saying is that we cannot see other time-lines so we can't know with certainty. That's what drives all of these arguments. Debates about war will go on into eternity with no end.

Wow. 90% of the comments on here are bull****. Has everyone on this website frickn lost it or what? As an American who never supported these wars, but cannot stop them either, I have admitted publicly that these "wars" have made me sick. And for those of you out there that say I'm lazy because I haven't single handedly stopped them, right now your only option unfortunately IS Ron Paul. No one else with political clout wants the wars to stop. So instead of criticizing us, get your heads outta your *** and help, or your country may be next.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


I think the general consensus is against the West, not specifically America. As for people blaming the American people, they do somewhat have a right to. We see this injustice and do nothing to stop it. Our inability to condemn this behavior indirectly makes us supporters of it. Let us use a hypothetical example of a couple of people ganging up and bullying another person, for whatever reason; eventually, the bullying gets out of hand, and one of the harassers kills the person. The other people would be considered equally as guilty simply because they condoned, or rather did not try to prevent, the murder of the individual. The argument of "well, I didn't deliver the killing blow," really doesn't work. If someone has the power to prevent a great injustice from occurring, and does not even, at the very least, TRY to do so, then that person has blood on his or her hands.

People see our government commit these horrors, then they see us, too distracted by Dancing With The Stars, and too hung up over Kim Kardashian's "marriage," to give a damn about them. You really have to see things from both perspectives. The majority of American people SEEM TO NOT CARE, probably because they are desensitized and brought to believe that they are right and the "enemy" is wrong; as if we have the moral high ground because we can't possibly contemplate the idea that cultures outside of our own skewed culture can exist. Life is life, blood is blood, love is love, regardless of whether the vessel it belongs to is American or Afghan, French or Libyan.

Do people assume that "terrorist towelheads" are some barbaric subhuman species that they cannot feel love and loss? That their lives are somehow worth less than ours because they live somewhere else or have different beliefs? What the hell would you do if you lost your father, mother, sister, brother, son, daughter, cousin, best friend, neighbor (who many Americans don't even bother to get to know anymore) etc, in a drone attack from a country who was attacking you for a logic defying reason: so that a few companies could profit off of oil and rebuilding while the attacking country bankrupts itself?

This is why we cannot defeat groups like the Taliban; for every 1 suspected Taliban militant (and 50 civilians) that we kill, 10 more join the fray. These people are fighting to drive us out, we have raped their land and their culture, we have orphaned so many children, widowed so many spouses, dismembered so many families; I think they just want to live in peace. The country they had before they were "liberated" was a much safer place.

I'm glad we're leaving Iraq, and hopefully we'll pull out of Afghanistan soon, too, but the damage has been done; our image has been soiled and, given the chance that we ever redeem ourselves, we have forever scarred ourselves and the people whom we've "liberated."

The monster in human truly is inhumane. If god exists he/she/it is too busy sobbing and vomiting to do anything.

reply to post by Mnemicrsl


There are measures we can take, but they are rather extreme and most likely won't yield any real result. I agree, Ron Paul is the only current option we have for ending these nonsense wars, so lets try voting him into office before anyone suggests resorting to drastic measures. A man can change the world with a bullet in the right place, but the change is seldom positive. Violence tends to solve nothing and the last thing we need in this world is another failed revolution.

Originally posted by SupersonicSerpent
reply to post by jonnywhite

 

With gadaffi Britain did nothing to him but he still supplied to IRA with Semtex 100s of women and children was killed because of bomb blasts.

these Muslim country's aren't as innocent as you think.they have been at war with us ever since they figured how to get across the pond 1000s of years ago.

Jush shows you Gadaffi liked to provide non-muslims with their 'needs'. What's the difference anyway between extreme conservative muslims, and extreme right-wing nationalists? The children are innocents. As for the tender loving care meted out by troops, run through the Baghdad video again, watch as they put a rocket into a building as people walk by, and they don't even know who is in the building. So much for avoiding collateral damage! It's 'foreigners abroad syndrome'

reply to post by predator0187

I've researched 911 and in my humble opinion, 911 was a false flag operation making the Bush Jr. Administration, mass murderers and war criminals.

We went to Iraq and Afghanistan for the oil and artifacts.

Naturally, the common people don't want war ... but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country. - Hermann Goering

Give the people something or a group of someones to fear, coupled with a perceived attack and most people will simply, out of fear, follow along.

On Friday, 14 September 2007, ORB (Opinion Research Business), an independent polling agency located in London, published estimates of the total war casualties in Iraq since the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.[1] At over 1.2 million deaths (1,220,580), this estimate is the highest number published so far. From the poll margin of error of +/-2.5% ORB calculated a range of 733,158 to 1,446,063 deaths. The ORB estimate was performed by a random survey of 1,720 adults aged 18+, out of which 1,499 responded, in fifteen of the eighteen governorates within Iraq, between August 12 and August 19, 2007.[2][3] In comparison, the 2006 Lancet survey suggested almost half this number (654,965 deaths) through the end of June 2006. The Lancet authors calculated a range of 392,979 to 942,636 deaths.

On 28 January 2008, ORB published an update based on additional work carried out in rural areas of Iraq. Some 600 additional interviews were undertaken September 20 to 24, 2007. As a result of this the death estimate was revised to 1,033,000 with a given range of 946,000 to 1,120,000.[4][5]

ORB reports that it has been "tracking public opinion in Iraq since 2005."[1]

The ORB estimate was criticised as "exaggerated" and "ill-founded" by one peer reviewed study co-authored by economist Michael Spagat and Josh Dougherty of the Iraq Body Count project.[6]

Source: en.wikipedia.org...

Nobody should be killing anybody.

When is humanity going to wise up and stop allowing themselves to be maniuplated by fear and hate?

Now, most people think they are empathetic, but nobody sitting at a nice quiet, warm, comfortable PC with central heat, plenty of water, a full tummy, a soft bed and no fear of being shot can truely fathom the reality of being in a war torn country.................a country that has now been ripped apart by war for a decade.

Millions of children orphaned, millions of lives disrupted never to recover emotionally and or physically.

But most of you reading this simply don't care................this doesn't affect most of you on a personal level.

Well, our tax dollars are blood money and without you seeing it, every single death, every single drop of blood shed in the name of revenge, freedom (and in reality for the oil) is upon each and every tax payer's hands.

Most Americans were tricked, it's so easy to manipulate people into war - give them a "enemy", a fear, a cause.

Again, for those that want to rebuke me, don't even bother if you have not read the 48 books and countless articles and videos I have read and researched since September 11, 2001.

The video below has Jesse Ventura talk about his book, "63 Documents The Government Does Not Want You To See".

The video below David Ray Griffin (born 1939) is an American retired professor of philosophy of religion and theology. Along with John B. Cobb, Jr., he founded the Center for Process Studies in 1973, a research center of Claremont School of Theology which seeks to promote the common good by means of the relational approach found in process thought.

More recently, Griffin has published a number of books on the subject of the September 11 attacks, suggesting that there was a conspiracy involving some elements of the United States government.

Source: www.youtube.com...

Very interesting video because it pretty much pulls in four of the books I've read by him.

"Cognitive Infiltration: An Obama Appointee's Plan to Undermine the 9/11 Conspiracy Theory"
"9/11 Ten Years Later: When State Crimes Against Democracy Succeed"
"The New Pearl Harbor Revisited: 9/11, the Cover-Up, and the Exposé" and
"The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions And Distortions"



..........continue

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

I think the general consensus is against the West, not specifically America. As for people blaming the American people, they do somewhat have a right to. We see this injustice and do nothing to stop it. Our inability to condemn this behavior indirectly makes us supporters of it. Let us use a hypothetical example of a couple of people ganging up and bullying another person, for whatever reason; eventually, the bullying gets out of hand, and one of the harassers kills the person. The other people would be considered equally as guilty simply because they condoned, or rather did not try to prevent, the murder of the individual. The argument of "well, I didn't deliver the killing blow," really doesn't work. If someone has the power to prevent a great injustice from occurring, and does not even, at the very least, TRY to do so, then that person has blood on his or her hands.

People see our government commit these horrors, then they see us, too distracted by Dancing With The Stars, and too hung up over Kim Kardashian's "marriage," to give a damn about them. You really have to see things from both perspectives. The majority of American people SEEM TO NOT CARE, probably because they are desensitized and brought to believe that they are right and the "enemy" is wrong; as if we have the moral high ground because we can't possibly contemplate the idea that cultures outside of our own skewed culture can exist. Life is life, blood is blood, love is love, regardless of whether the vessel it belongs to is American or Afghan, French or Libyan.

Do people assume that "terrorist towelheads" are some barbaric subhuman species that they cannot feel love and loss? That their lives are somehow worth less than ours because they live somewhere else or have different beliefs? What the hell would you do if you lost your father, mother, sister, brother, son, daughter, cousin, best friend, neighbor (who many Americans don't even bother to get to know anymore) etc, in a drone attack from a country who was attacking you for a logic defying reason: so that a few companies could profit off of oil and rebuilding while the attacking country bankrupts itself?

This is why we cannot defeat groups like the Taliban; for every 1 suspected Taliban militant (and 50 civilians) that we kill, 10 more join the fray. These people are fighting to drive us out, we have raped their land and their culture, we have orphaned so many children, widowed so many spouses, dismembered so many families; I think they just want to live in peace. The country they had before they were "liberated" was a much safer place.

I'm glad we're leaving Iraq, and hopefully we'll pull out of Afghanistan soon, too, but the damage has been done; our image has been soiled and, given the chance that we ever redeem ourselves, we have forever scarred ourselves and the people whom we've "liberated."

The monster in human truly is inhumane. If god exists he/she/it is too busy sobbing and vomiting to do anything.

Well, tell ya what, when you can stop this POTUS from doing the despicable things he is doing, including assassinating an American citizen abroad and signing legislation which would indefinitely detain Americans with no due process, then maybe I can agree with what you just said, but for my part, I went to Tea Party rallies to protest his idiot policies and got called an extremist in Brooks Bros clothing, so please speak for yourself on this matter.
When this POTUS can turn a blind eye to protesters nationwide and say he didn't even know they were in DC a million strong, something is wrong. He is acting for and on behalf of the Elite of many nations, not just American. Who do you think goes to these Bilderberg meetings?
Oh yes Bill Gates, Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands, Tony Blair, and many others from many nations.


For the record, I've never called anyone a towel head or other such derogatory names and as I have said, I opposed the Libyan war and all the other wars too.
This is not about me approving or disapproving of bombing of innocents, it is the elite of complicit nations who have a globalist agenda, thank you very much, hope that clears things up for you.

If we somehow erupt into a WW3, and you were put on the draft list and called up to join the forces, would you? Who on here who's posting comments would? How many of us are cowards?

Looking at all these wars going on, all it will take is two opposing superpowers to cause WW3. We're not far from that. If Russia or China or others go beyond proxy wars then we'll have one.

What is a coward? A coward is somebody who, through inaction born from fear, fails to act and somebody else dies as a result. This is as opposed to somebody who intentionally kills somebody else. So while a coward is not a hero, nor a man you'd want to lean on in tough times, a coward is definitely not a murderer by this definition. There're worse things to be.

But they say that a coward dies a thousand deaths.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
If we somehow erupt into a WW3, and you were put on the draft list and called up to join the forces, would you? Who on here who's posting comments would? How many of us are cowards?

Looking at all these wars going on, all it will take is two opposing superpowers to cause WW3.

What is a coward? A coward is somebody who, through inaction spurring from fear, fails to act and somebody else dies as a result. This is as opposed to somebody who intentionally kills somebody else. So while a coward is not a hero, nor a man you'd want to lean on, a coward is definitely not a murderer.

edit on 10-1-2012 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

Exactly who is fighting who is this WWIII scenario ?