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Originally posted by brommas
reply to post by UnlimitedSky
Next thing we will all be told is that paedophillia is natural to us all and we should accept that this is part of our dark side. Sorry i have to disagree with all of your statements, i have never heard so much crap in all my life!. When i do something for someone else, it makes me feel good,however if i were to do something bad to someone else, this really would not make me feel good.
Originally posted by kwakakev
As with everything, the more you understand it the better your capabilities. Studying history does help in coming to terms with this messed up world. From the age of dinosaurs and savage nature of the jungle, rise of tribes, regional conflicts, religious wars and ongoing battle for resources. Now with secret services utilising every deceptive technique they can it does get hard to know which way is up at times.
It is a good connection you make that in trying to understand yourself helps in understanding the world.
Originally posted by UnlimitedSky
On this basis, we learn to lie. Eventually we don't only lie to the outside world, but we also lie to ourselves about who we really are. And as such, the Persona is born. We build a persona out of all the good things we believe is acceptable and totally disregard any negative aspects about ourselves in order to be accepted. However, this is only a front, and not truly who you are.
Originally posted by 1littlewolf
Nice post, and I agree with Dylan that it is refreshing to see a thread which encompasses the totality of human behaviour instead merely that which is perceived as ‘good’.
I will say though that of what you mentioned of Debbie Ford’s work it seems overly simplistic. Children learn to lie before they learn the reason not to do ‘bad things’, and even if you’re the most enlightened, patient parent on Earth they will still lie before they are even capable of understanding you reasoning as to why something is wrong. All they perceive is that they are doing something, you don’t want them to do it, and if they want to continue doing it deception is one of the options which are available.
As a parent of 2 toddlers I have never said “don’t be ___________”, and have always tried to reason with them where possible. But unfortuantely this is not always possible. The Persona (I’m guessing here you’re referring to the ego’) is well in place long before language and any worthwhile reasoning skills are in place. The ego in a child would fully come in to its own I would guess around the age of 18 months, well before most children can say more than a few token words. I would also say in my opinion ego development is not a natural progression but also quite necessary for a child to develop as a fully functioning human being.
Humans will lie for many reasons, and are quite capable of learning how to do this at any age. I do agree that some of what Debbie says is interesting, and there is definitely something to it, but it is drastically over simplified, at least the way you have presented it. I do however agree with everything you said after mentioning Jung.
It is also my belief that it is perfectly okay to lie if the person you are talking to is not prepared to hear the truth, or if telling a certain truth will cause more harm than good. Most humans unfortunately operate only slightly above the baseline, instinctual reactionary level of any other animal. The problem is our minds are far more complicated and carry a lot of baggage.
Obviously in a perfect world this would not be the case. But it is not and I have neither the time nor inclination to try and ‘enlighten’ every trouble maker I encounter. I do not feel any need to make up lies regarding myself or my situation just (for example) to make myself look good. But if lying gets me or those I care about out of a tricky situation then I feel no moral qualms about doing it.
Obviously I would prefer not to have to do it, and I am not naturally a dishonest person. But the truth told to those who are ill prepared to hear it can do more harm than all the lies in the world.
And then there is also the case of the damage the truth can cause when told by those with ill intent…..