The "Real" SkyNet: When Will it Happen?

Will computers become self aware?

Computers are improving at an amazing rate, operating at ever faster processing speeds and with larger memories. The software is becoming more and more complex and able to handle a vast array of tasks. But all said and done it's still just a machine performing a task that it has been designed to do, it doesn't actually come up with any new ideas of its own or do any thinking.

With our increasing reliance and dependence on computers it is reasonable to assume that computer software and hardware will become more and more sophisticated. Artificial intelligence (A.I.) research & development continues to progress. With humanity's penchant for selfishness and moral depravity can we expect a Terminator-style self-destruction?

The only difference between mindless machines, or macromolecules, and a 'mind', is intentionality - the ability to act by conscious decision. How do we do this? To gain an understanding of how we make conscious decisions it may be useful to look at the way in which computers work....

We know what we are, but know not what we may become. - William Shakespeare

What you speak of is what transhumanists refer to as the singularity. That happens when we create an AI capable of awareness or "consciousness". Then once that AI creates another AI entity in turn or rewires (upgrades) itself that is when skynet will happen if at all.

"Knowledge and human power are synonymous, since the ignorance of the cause frustrates the effect."

~Francis Bacon (The other Shakespeare) ~

If self awareness is nothing more than emergent behavior then perhaps machines too will, after complexity reaches a point of unintended consequences, achieve sentience. If sentience is, however, part of a substances separate and distinct from physiology, then if machines are to become sentient, humanity will have to write the program inviting it.

"Ignorance is the curse of God, Knowledge the wing wherewith we fly to heaven."

~William Shakespeare (a fan of Francis Bacon) ~

reply to post by Cosmic911


Would we necessarily know?

It could be happening right now.

Think about Google Search. You type in what you want to search for; it determines the best results, based upon what it interprets your request was for.

You get results that are a lot like what you were requesting.

Isn't that a bit like an AI?

Within the narrow confines of its function, could it be seen as passing the Truring test?

... and think about it, it touches on nearly the sum of human knowledge!

So, what do you think? Is it happening in a small, crude way, right now?

Not some AI smarter than humans, but one totally different than humans.

Is it aware of itself?

If not, it would end up indexing its own indexes in an infinite loop until it had flooded the capacity of its servers.

Since it does not fail in this way, it must already have some self awareness.

Would we recognise the singularity if it smacked us in the face?

Originally posted by d00d557
What you speak of is what transhumanists refer to as the singularity. That happens when we create an AI capable of awareness or "consciousness". Then once that AI creates another AI entity in turn or rewires (upgrades) itself that is when skynet will happen if at all.

Transhumanist...I have never heard that word...it is very interesting! The use of the word "singularity" is also interesting. So, from this view point, the ability to reproduce is significant to becoming self-aware.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


"If sentience is, however, part of a substances separate and distinct from physiology, then if machines are to become sentient, humanity will have to write the program inviting it."

If it is believed that sentience is separate and distinct from physiology, is it possible that machine sentience could develop separate and distinct from its hardware?

reply to post by chr0naut


I think you are correct; it is happening now, in one form or another.

i see it happening with quantum computers.
but i'm sure the PTB already have a plan to deal with any rogue computer that trys to override any command.

Originally posted by Cosmic911
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

"If sentience is, however, part of a substances separate and distinct from physiology, then if machines are to become sentient, humanity will have to write the program inviting it."

If it is believed that sentience is separate and distinct from physiology, is it possible that machine sentience could develop separate and distinct from its hardware?

I think you are conflating the two camps, they being Dualism and Monism. The Dualist believes that the mind is something separate from the body. A distinct substance all its own. The Monist believes the mind is the same substance that body is made of. If the Monist are correct then "development" is appropriate. However, if the Dualist are correct, then the mind does not develop out of the body but merely inhabits it.

Cleverbot is well quite clever. I have had some very cryptic though profound conversations with it which have indicated a personality of sorts. IMO AI is already here it is simply evolving its understanding of its creators. Based on the input of cleverbots users it has a very cynical and skewed view of our collective. Remember one can one make decisions based on the input one has experienced. That is unless one employs the subjective principle of faith.

Your thinking of the singularity...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Cosmic911
reply to post by chr0naut

 

I think you are correct; it is happening now, in one form or another.

I believe that before a significantly identifiable AI will arise, we will (some of us) 'bind' ourselves to the access to all knowledge that is offered by such machines.

This year we all keep in touch by mobile 'phones with the internet.

Sometime soon, the 'phone will be like clothing. So much a part of us that we'll hardly notice it.

Then with better haptics, we won't even have to use our hands, look at a screen or hold something to our ear.

Then some will implant, accessing the net & its data neurally.

At that stage, the line between what is human and what is AI will get very fuzzy.

Too bad for those who choose their own individuality rather than taking the link.

It will stratify the human society like no other event in history and probably be the cause of massive conflict.

The "augmented" humans will probably think they are like gods compared to the norms.

Maybe when Linda Hamilton dies?

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


"I think you are conflating the two camps, they being Dualism and Monism. The Dualist believes that the mind is something separate from the body. A distinct substance all its own. The Monist believes the mind is the same substance that body is made of. If the Monist are correct then "development" is appropriate. However, if the Dualist are correct, then the mind does not develop out of the body but merely inhabits it."

I think you have me at a disadvantage...you seem pretty familar with these concepts. Thanks for chiming in on this thread!

What do you believe? Personally, I think I'm aligned with the Dualist camp; that the mind is something separate from the body.

How does Rene Descartes "Cogito" fit into the discussion? Is programming different than thinking?

reply to post by Cosmic911

What do you believe? Personally, I think I'm aligned with the Dualist camp; that the mind is something separate from the body.

How does Rene Descartes "Cogito" fit into the discussion? Is programming different than thinking?

I too fall within the Dualist camp, as did Descartes. His "Cogito ergo sum" was the product of radical doubt, where he, somewhat like Sherlock Holmes, through a process of elimination kept eliminating hypothesis until he stumbled upon his one single certainty: "I think, therefore I am". This certainty in and of itself, however, does not prove Dualism and to this day the "Mind/Body Problem" remains unresolved.

reply to post by Cosmic911

Will computers become self aware?

I do not know the answer to that question, but I know they will, eventually, become aware. As for Skynet being real, of course it is quite real, as is Cyberdyne Industries....

Skynet and Cyberdyne are real, and they equal trouble

I actually work in this field and its a lot closer than you might think!

You will start to see AI based services on the net over the next year or so! They will know about you , what you like, your preferences, and these services will tune your browsing experience to you! I know of a couple in development, two of which are very large scale projects.

The actual difficulty with smart AI, isnt logic processing power, or even really data processing power, if you have enough resource you can buy as much as you need. The main issue is organization of the knowledge data you need for that service to be smart, even the most simple of service needs a great deal of information about the various topics it might deal with to ensure good answers.

Within 5 years you will have an internet that knows all about you, can pre-empt and predict what you are browsing for etc. Following from this, with gadgets so connected these days, this data about you in the web will filter down to those gadets too, like a TV that knows what you like to watch and will inform you, accurately of programs that you might like to watch.

reply to post by Cosmic911


If we were also created, aren't we also AI ?

or is there really no such thing as AI and only Intelligence but in many forms.

Originally posted by fuserleer
I actually work in this field and its a lot closer than you might think!

You will start to see AI based services on the net over the next year or so! They will know about you , what you like, your preferences, and these services will tune your browsing experience to you! I know of a couple in development, two of which are very large scale projects.

But the question of true "intelligence" remains. The programs and algorithms that are programmed and designed still all follow predetermined and defined roles -- may they be narrow or broad.

If say said program is able to replicate, reprogram itself and then redefine its own existence then I would say are close. What you describe above is truly amazing in the terms of computer logic is still following a determined role and subset of instructions.

The actual difficulty with smart AI, isnt logic processing power, or even really data processing power, if you have enough resource you can buy as much as you need. The main issue is organization of the knowledge data you need for that service to be smart, even the most simple of service needs a great deal of information about the various topics it might deal with to ensure good answers.

A smart program does not make intelligence in my opinion.

I am weighing in on this for a couple points....

first: I was at work today, and mentioned I did not own a cell phone....the scattered looks made me feel like I told them the pope was jewish, good combination of disbelief to out right denial.....and I seriously don't own one.

second: I have full belief that AI will be if it hasn't already been developed.

third: that AI has just as much chance of wiping us off the planet as a comet, plague, or nibiru. Why? because a computer can remain logical, as a couple posters commented, and humanity is a disease to the planet. Mr Spock 'but it is only logical...'

fourth: our global society has split in such a way that the poor are getting poorer and could care less about tech, and the rich are getting richer and want to be lazier.....This leads to a simple equation, those that wouldn't benefit from being aware of the dangers of this, have more important things to care about....and those that are able to be aware and concerned, don't care, they just want the benefits of the science, risks be damned.

Fifth: On the way home, I was listening to NPR talk about obesity ads in Georgia, how ethically questionable they were....I'm sorry, but I am from a generation in which mom kicked us out of the house and told us to not come home till dinner.....Now, I am fully aware that the world we live in is not the 70's and 80s, However, parents need to be parents and kick the kids off the chair once in awhile and get them active doing something.....ANYTHING!!!! And for the love of God, cook, stop relying on McDonalds to feed your families....If we actually try to instill a bit of personal responsibility in our kids, they won't want AI to have that control, they will actually want to do some things for themselves, we are not the Jetsons....Nor should we want to be.