Top German cop uses spyware on daughter, gets hacked in retaliation

If you cant trust your children online , then don't let them online unsupervised .
I could never imagine myself doing that to my daughter

"...the emails provided the necessary information for the hackers (i.e. stupid kids) to infiltrate (log on) germany's federal police (formerly named the gestapo)."

this article makes it seem like the kids had advanced computer cryptology knowledge and are a team of experienced cyber hackers.

most likely her dad left the computer on, the kids checked the emails and found one from his secretary with the new password for the german police servers.

reply to post by baphomet420


Rubbish, If you have bought your children up with repect and to know the dangers of the internet, then there is no reason why they will not remember the warnings and be careful.My daughter who is of a similar age is very well up on the internet and the dangers that surround it, I trust her to be able to use her own judgement, she knows what is sensible and what is not!.

I also trust her enough to know that if there is anything that she is concerned about that she will come to me with it. That is called having faith in your child!.

I really feel sorry for you with the approach you take, you must not have a loving trusting relationship with your children. Put some faith in them, they will reward you.

I don't see a problem with leaving kids be on the internet (i mean, kids who are old enough to think and follow the rules).

My parents never spied on me on the internet, i got caught with porn a few times because i didnt clear the history. (haha),
But i mean, teach your kids proper etiquette on the web, and you should not need to spy.

This cracks me up because the dad had legal right to put whatever software on a computer he purchased for whomever residing in his home. Why I laugh is, the boyfriend, depending on his age, may do jail time for illegally hacking into a federal officers computer and then the federal computer servers.

You say hooray for the revenge, I say stupid on the boyfriend's part because it will forever be on his criminal record. And to get the conspiracy minds of ATS working.... it could have been a very well played out plan for the dad if he didn't like her boyfriend.

Originally posted by kawika
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

Yup, I like this quote from the story.

One moral of the tale: parents, think hard before taking technical measures against your own kids. There's a better than average chance that they—or their friends—know more than you do.

To those who think it "negligent" to NOT use spyware. Ponder this. I raised a genius level intellect in my middle son. He was doing C++ @ 10yrs old and I was encouraging his tech skills and teaching him morality. So when he tested his "skills" and was caught he knew he had done wrong Changed his focus and has now been a 4.0 college student in linguistics for several years.
Point is, what software do you think I could have used to watch someone who builds and defeats spyware as a game? And also that unless you have done your work as a parent and are willing to trust the people you are supposedly closest too you deserve just what this COP got.
Lesson to cops and parents who want to act like them. Your family is not suspect and if it is it is probably due to your own overbearing control.Do not be surprised when that control is stuffed back in your grill.
Not saying be a push over, lord knows my kids got their arses tanned a time or two, just don't be a freaking peeper who creeps around spying on your kids if you want to ever get their trust.Be involved s you know what they are into. When my kid was "hacking" I told him the consequences and then let them occur. He learned and he trusts what I say big time now. Being a parent is about doing your best with the seedling, watching the sapling and helping to straighten it's growth and trusting the tree to grow to it's full potential.Nurture not control.
APB

Originally posted by brommas
reply to post by baphomet420

 

Rubbish, If you have bought your children up with repect and to know the dangers of the internet, then there is no reason why they will not remember the warnings and be careful.My daughter who is of a similar age is very well up on the internet and the dangers that surround it, I trust her to be able to use her own judgement, she knows what is sensible and what is not!.

I also trust her enough to know that if there is anything that she is concerned about that she will come to me with it. That is called having faith in your child!.

I really feel sorry for you with the approach you take, you must not have a loving trusting relationship with your children. Put some faith in them, they will reward you.

edit on 10-1-2012 by brommas because: (no reason given)

OK
lets get a couple of things straight here...

You know nothing about me, you know nothing about my child.

Faith is a meaningless word to me.
I have arguably the best behaved kid in the world. I actually get stopped in public all of the time and complimented on how well behaved he is. He is also very respectable. Everything is please, thank you.
I have never had to spank my kid. All I have to say to him is that he is in trouble, and he practically punishes himself.
No TV is allowed. I do have dvd players and a wii, I am not a total killjoy.
We play games (board games) and do higher mathematics (he is 7 and can do basic algebra), we are currently working on geometry. I try to make stuff like that fun.

He will always do the right thing. I know this, but at the same time, people who always do the right thing end up in bad places, I know this as well.

Would let your kid hang out on the corner downtown at midnight??? I mean, you have faith in your kid and all, so its all good right??? Well, the internet is a far more dangerous place than the corner downtown at midnight.

reply to post by brommas


You have to take into account the fact that kids don't always think or use good judgment despite parents teachings and warnings.

Take my daughter for example. She is 8. We have gone over internet safety a dozen or more times and has been told repeatedly never to give out her password to anyone. Recently her brother overheard her giving out her password to a gaming site to her best friend. her reasoning was that it was her best friend and best friends share secrets, and her best friend trusted her with her password first. She had to, they are best friends after all, and best friends trust each other.

Children think like children, that is why they need adults to govern their actions and protect them. I understand trusting your child to a point, but children need to earn that trust. Also, all children are different. One child you may be able to trust in one area but not in another area that you might be able to trust a different child in.

Oh!! Hello Karma! Nice to see you!
Karmas ability to react faster and faster is growing exponentially.. lol
Do crappy things, Crappy things come to you! Remember it. Cheers

This is what happens when people think that technology is a substitute for humanity, that they use a computer as a mediator for covert passive agressive control games. A police officer using a device to monitor all activity on the computer -- not just his daughter, but he was paranoid about it all, covering his back possibly. That is no substitute to Internet coaching by parents. If you can teach your kids to drive and manage their money, you can teach them responsibility on a computer. No, this one was probably trying to catch her smoking through the webcam or something trivial. Unless he was crooked and was trying to exploit his daughter.

But her boyfriend went overboard. It's really twisted because if he does this with information on a slighted wrong, what is he going to do to the daughter/girlfriend when she decides to have a mind of her own? If she offends him a bit, is he going to trample her life and career, sell her family out to his buddies? He already did it didn't he? That is not a keeper.

The article is a day ago but the facts are a year ago. The Patras breach; I heard about a similar breach of security in the year 2001, if memory serves, or I'm having deja vu. Maybe it is precognition. The girl could go to jail for aiding and abetting a criminal, if she hasn't already. She's busted and grounded.

Arbitrageur is right in my opinion.
The Internet has extremely dark and disturbing corners, even to adults, and you can't leave your children unsupervised.
That is like putting them in a room with tons of porn, snuff, violence and other things children are not able to handle, and say "Go ahead my Dear, the cartoons must be somewhere in between here."
We all know how easy it is to find these things. Don't get me wrong, I don't want a censerored Internet, I just think age restrictions make sense.
About the take down of the Patras-Server, I couldn't care less, in fact I'm smiling.
It's mainly to monitor drug traffickers.
I'm not into this war on drugs thing, I believe in the freedom of choice, if you're of the appropiate age of course.

Originally posted by baphomet420
i would dare to say that you are being negligent if you do not use spyware on your childrens computer...

i am not saying you have to dissect every little thing they do, but you really do need to know what your kids are doing online.

you are still a parent, rather it be real world, or cyber world, the two intersect all the time. bad things come from kids being on the internet for social reasons.
the internet is a powerful tool for EVERYBODY, including people that would get enjoyment from harming children..

i see a problem with the police using spyware...
i see no problem with a parent using it...

keyloggers are GREAT...

It all depends. If the parent bought the electronic equipment then sure, while if the minor bought the electronic equipment through their own labor then the parent should either make restitution, some kind of probation or jail. As it is a violation of a human being inherent rights.

reply to post by korathin


i am sorry, but if my minor had acquired his OWN computer himself, I would even be more worried...

you know, the child labor laws kinda make it illegal for him to go out and make that money,

so if he acquired a computer on his own, i would be making a priority to pry into his stuff, as something obviously isn't right...

jail for parenting your kids????
seriously???
ats???
deny ignorance???
are these days gone????

i am really concerned as to why a parent should be place in jail for keeping a close eye on their children...

ohhhhhhhhhhh
i bet you don't have any kids... thats it...

Spying and invading your children's privacy is a one way ticket to being severely hated, which opens up a door to all kinds of rebellious acts. Children will literally hurt themselves in order to hurt you, I don't think its a good thing.

That and I don't subscribe to this "hide your child from the real world" mentality. The world is ugly sometimes, no sense setting them out into it with blinders on and a deep seated hatred and/or fear of authority.

Originally posted by baphomet420
reply to post by korathin

 

i am sorry, but if my minor had acquired his OWN computer himself, I would even be more worried...

you know, the child labor laws kinda make it illegal for him to go out and make that money,

so if he acquired a computer on his own, i would be making a priority to pry into his stuff, as something obviously isn't right...

jail for parenting your kids????
seriously???
ats???
deny ignorance???
are these days gone????

i am really concerned as to why a parent should be place in jail for keeping a close eye on their children...

ohhhhhhhhhhh
i bet you don't have any kids... thats it...

The problem is people like you thinks a 5 or 8 year old kid stays 5 or 8 years old until they are out of the house. At 13 kids can do all kinds of stuff to save up money, rake leaves, shovel snow even get a part time job as a paper delivery person or something. Then at 16 they can get a part time job at a gas station, super market etc.

Parents don't own their kids(and neither does the state/society), but Parents do have a responsibility to be "good guides". And frankly spoken, your line of intrusive thinking, you clearly view minors as property. And all their labor belongs to their parents. Kind of like the heart breaking stories of kid's who work hard, save up money all for it to be stolen right before their 18th birthday(with them being kicked to the curb shortly thereafter).

Sometimes I think there is a certain virtue to carefully making sure certain types of people don't become parents. But history shows that line of thinking only ends up badly as those with ill intent steal upon it and distort it to other ends.

Heck if you where talking about a 1-12 year old I would more or less agree with you, but for some reason I think your thinking about 15-17 year old's.

Originally posted by trustnothing

So what do you think? Should you been installing malware of your kids pcs? Stealing their logons? This story made me LOL anyways enjoy.

To some degree I think parents should have some ability to monitor what their kids are up to online.
I don't mean reading their emails or their IM programs or getting into their facebook accounts.
But there are many perverted and evil people out there who use the Internet simply to prey on children.
Your kids don't need to be on facebook or using emails to be preyed upon.
There are many other sites that your kids could go to.

Then there is the issue of pornography.
Should you allow you kids to be viewing material intended for adults?

You could argue that, for example, 'boys will be boys', and using the Internet to look at nude photos of women is no different to the days before the Internet where playboy magazines were the norm for underage boys.

But then you have to consider that the material in playboy is rather softcore compared to what can be seen on the Internet.
On the Internet it goes beyond simply women without their clothes on or women engaged in sex acts.

Every fetish imaginable is basically catered for on the Internet.
Is that something your kids should be viewing?

We can argue that looking at photos of naked women and women having sex, is part of growing up as kids get curious.
But is it normal for kids to be seeing all the bizare and vile crap that is on the Internet?
Should they be viewing for example skatology(not sure if that's what it's called) material?
How about simulated rape material?
Bestiality?

If and when I have kids, I will monitor what they do online, to a degree. As in, I'll log the sites they visit.
But I will also talk to them about what they should and shouldn't be doing on the Internet, things such as the basics like not giving out personal information or posting it online, not posting(or taking) indecent or compromising photographs or videos of them selves.
But also about being wary of predators.

There's nothing more you can really do, without restricting your kids freedom.
And you want your kid to be able to explore and discover things, to make mistakes and learn from them. It's part of growing up.

Just like you would keep an eye out on your kid at the beach or public pool, you need to keep an eye out on your kid while they are on the Internet.
Because instead of the perverts and weirdos being outside, they are now in your home thanks to the Internet.
It's one of the downsides that we have to live with and learn to cope with, because the Internet is a great tool for education and information, among other things like music and movies.
For example many tv networks now post full episodes online shortly after airing live on tv that people can watch freely.
We can order anything from the Internet and have it delivered to our door, from anywhere in the world.
Hell we can even order pizzas online these days, not to mention track our purchases as they are delivered to us.
We can use the Internet to talk face to face with people with programs like Skype.
Two weeks ago my grandfather passed away, and before the church service, we were on Skype and saw him one final time(we couldn't be there because he is on the other side of the world).

Monitor your kids to ensure they are safe from predators...but anything else, let them be, let them explore and discover things make mistakes and learn. They are curious, just like you were.
It's exactly the same as in the real world, except you use a different method to keep them safe.

reply to post by trustnothing


ROFLOL

I dont think kids younger than around 15-16 should have a computer/laptop in their room with an internet connection. period.

All internet activitys in my opinion for children younger, should be in a common use room and only when theres an adult around.

I belive more in limiting activy rather than intrusion of privacy, so dont spy on them block the bad stuff and dont "leave them to it".

Blocking software ironicly does not stop you looking at tech manuals for disabling them lol