Seven Reasons Not To Bomb Iran

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by seabag

 

I really have to disagree on the idea of this being propaganda. The situation seems about accurate the way it's being presented. NO one in their right mind and sanity is suggesting Iran is capable of defeating the United States in total war. Without the active help of China and/or Russia, the idea is patently ridiculous. It's math..if nothing else.

Come on now…lets define it!

Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position so as to benefit oneself or one's group.

link

Was the description of Iran’s military capability in the OP an attempt to dissuade a US strike or influence the US attitude?

Besides, the source is Iranian….do you think they would print something unfavorable?

reply to post by seabag

Sometimes logic can be the ultimate double edged sword. Okay, ya got me... If we go by the proper definition of propaganda, then propaganda it surely is. I generaly think of deception and wild dishonesty figuring into something to make it propaganda, but you're right in pointing out that need not always be the case.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

In defense of the possible bunker busters that may be coming its way to protect its civilian population from radiation fallout. You cannot state 'moving programs' as evidence of a supposed nuclear weapon program. Surely you have to be kidding..

Kidding? Nope…no kidding here. It’s not a peaceful program. You don’t hide things unless you don’t want them seen.

Once again, I am asking for physical evidence in the report. Could you please provide the page numbers, and when I have time I will review it, and if there is any evidence I will recant my statement.

You only enrich uranium higher than 20% for weapons systems. What else is it used for? You tell me that, please. If you can’t justify the process they are pursuing then it must be for a nuclear weapons. Circumstancial evidence.

The IAEA drew a conclusion based on the evidence. The fact they are taking it underground is further evidence of deception. You’re being intellectually dishonest, friend.

the_professional wants to look smart, while he is exactly the opposite.

Dude, pls ask iranian citizenship and move there.Ahmadinejad butt will be closer to your lips.

I CAN'T WAIT the day when Israel will kick Iran's ass, so i can happily say to you :''see dude, the mighty iranian army is destroyed by the cowardly israelis''.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by seabag

 

Sometimes logic can be the ultimate double edged sword.

Okay, ya got me... If we go by the proper definition of propaganda, then propaganda it surely is. I generaly think of deception and wild dishonesty figuring into something to make it propaganda, but you're right in pointing out that need not always be the case.

No worries! It just depends on the way its used.

I agree with your assessment though. Iran would be a tougher foe (than Iraq or Afghanistan) should we face them conventionally. I don’t think this will be a conventional war should it happen. The thing to remember also is that the US military understands the obstacles we would face.

Remember Shock and Awe? Could be on a larger scale this time...

Boots won’t touch the ground (overtly) until the place is neutralized. Budget cuts won’t change that!

I just want to add my own, I consider it a golden rule of sorts and it serves me well...


...Don't do unto others, that which you don't want others to do unto you.

reply to post by TheRemedial


So Muslims shouldn’t impose worldwide Caliphate?

So Iran shouldn’t fund terrorism lest they be terrorized?

So Iranian troops shouldn’t kill US troops in Iraq when the country of Iran isn’t even involved?

Got it!!

Maybe you should share your words of wisdom with Iran.

In the words of greater Americans than us or anyone here present...

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Harry Truman
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Intense feeling too often obscures the truth.

The Marine Corps is the Navy's police force and as long as I am President that is what it will remain. They have a propaganda machine that is almost equal to Stalin's.

You can never get all the facts from just one newspaper, and unless you have all the facts, you cannot make proper judgments about what is going on.

If you can't convince them, confuse them.

"To hell with them. When history is written they will be the sons of bitches - not I."
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Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels - men and women who dare to dissent from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, may we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion.

Don't think you are going to conceal thoughts by concealing evidence that they ever existed.

I despise people who go to the gutter on either the right or the left and hurl rocks at those in the center.

I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.

I have one yardstick by which I test every major problem - and that yardstick is: Is it good for America?

If men can develop weapons that are so terrifying as to make the thought of global war include almost a sentence for suicide, you would think that man's intelligence and his comprehension... would include also his ability to find a peaceful solution.

If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom.

In most communities it is illegal to cry "fire" in a crowded assembly. Should it not be considered serious international misconduct to manufacture a general war scare in an effort to achieve local political aims?

Only Americans can hurt America.

Peace and justice are two sides of the same coin.
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Franklin Delano Roosevelt
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If civilization is to survive, we must cultivate the science of human relationships - the ability of all peoples, of all kinds, to live together, in the same world at peace.

If you treat people right they will treat you right... ninety percent of the time.
In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.

It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

It is the duty of the President to propose and it is the privilege of the Congress to dispose.

Men are not prisoners of fate, but only prisoners of their own minds.

More than an end to war, we want an end to the beginning of all wars - yes, an end to this brutal, inhuman and thoroughly impractical method of settling the differences between governments.

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


I wonder how is saddam hussein feeling now about the burden of proof?

II

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by TheRemedial

 

So Muslims shouldn’t impose worldwide Caliphate?

So Iran shouldn’t fund terrorism lest they be terrorized?

So Iranian troops shouldn’t kill US troops in Iraq when the country of Iran isn’t even involved?

Got it!!

Maybe you should share your words of wisdom with Iran.

If they were universally heard and practiced there wouldn't be a problem in the first place. I could care less if Iran attacks Iraq or Israel attacks Egypt or Pakistan attacks India or a herd of elephants tramples over China for that matter. It is not our business until they attack us directly and formally with declaration. Terrorists should be counter terrorized not used as an excuse to mobilize a standing army. Everyone with an ounce of intellect should know that those so called terrorist cells could have and should have been immobilized and destroyed at the root within just weeks.

Your precious military actions post 9/11 have been either A) incompetent B) misguided C) ineffective or D) A, B and C under explicit ORDER to be all of the above.

Originally posted by whywhynot
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

 

I wonder how is saddam hussein feeling now about the burden of proof?

II

YA!! I feel for him!!!

Apparently you do!!

Let’s take a look…

According to The New York Times, "he [Saddam] murdered as many as a million of his people, many with poison gas. He tortured, maimed and imprisoned countless more. His unprovoked invasion of Iran is estimated to have left another million people dead. His seizure of Kuwait threw the Middle East into crisis. More insidious, arguably, was the psychological damage he inflicted on his own land. Hussein created a nation of informants — friends on friends, circles within circles — making an entire population complicit in his rule". Others have estimated 800,000 deaths caused by Saddam not counting the Iran-Iraq war. Estimates as to the number of Iraqis executed by Saddam's regime vary from 300-500,000 to over 600,000, estimates as to the number of Kurds he massacred vary from 70,000 to 300,000, and estimates as to the number killed in the put-down of the 1991 rebellion vary from 60,000 to 200,000. Estimates for the number of dead in the Iran-Iraq war range upwards from 300,000.

link

reply to post by whywhynot


I'll answer that for you.

He's not.

We lynched him.

What does it say about you as a human being, if you can only find seven reason not to bomb, maim, and murder innocent women and children?

How about the simple rule of treat others how you yourself would like to be treated. Would you want your family bombed, wife and kids, because your government didn't get along with another?

Hmmm.. I found the original article the PressTVIR evidently used as a base. It was in a publication called The Diplomat.

The Diplomat -Five Reasons Not to Attack Iran

He listed 5. PressTV chopped them up into 7. They also left a few things out like this bit that occurs near the end of the original article.

While Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s bellicose statements make good political theater, there is rarely much behind them. To suggest that Ahmadinejad is all bark and no bite is not far from the truth. The fact is that the Iranian regime is more risk averse than many give it credit for. Regime survival is of paramount concern and greatly explains why the regime acts as it does. Pushing the regime to the edge may turn empty threats into reality and will certainly undermine any effort by President Barack Obama to save defense dollars.

I wonder why PressTV would leave that bit out?

Anyway, the original article gives a good bit more info about what the author is actually saying that the PressTV bit which has been edited significantly.

Originally posted by Recollector
the_professional wants to look smart, while he is exactly the opposite.

Dude, pls ask iranian citizenship and move there.Ahmadinejad butt will be closer to your lips.

I CAN'T WAIT the day when Israel will kick Iran's ass, so i can happily say to you :''see dude, the mighty iranian army is destroyed by the cowardly israelis''.

Its very sad that the world is filled with people like you
How can you say you can't wait for Israel to kick there ass?

There is no evidence that Iran is building these weapons,
and if the usa/un, whatever attacks Iran false aligations,
then i hope they get brought to justice. This war machine
has too stop before we all get dragged unto ww3

When are people going to realuse that governments want
war, not the people. Well, about 98% of the people don't
want war.

Men who feel strong in the justice of their cause, or confident in their powers, do not waste breath in childish boast of their own superiority and querulous depreciation of their antagonists." - James Russell Lowell

Peace is not the lack of war, but an inner virtue which has its source in the courage of the soul.
Baruch Spinoza

To subdue an enemy without fighting is the greatest of skills.
Sun Tzu

The superior man seeks what is right.
Confucius

Think, feel, and act like a warrior. Set yourself apart from the rest of society by your personal excellence.
Forrest E. Morgan

It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down -- Yagyu Munenori

Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power. -- Lao Tzu

In peace prepare for war, in war prepare for peace. The art of war is of vital importance to the state. It is matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence under no circumstances can it be neglected. -- Sun Tzu

To fight and conquer in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy with no fight at all, that's the highest skill. -- Sun Tzu

It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it. -- Gen. Douglas MacArthur

All war is deception. -- Sun Tzu

"

Originally posted by Frogs
Hmmm.. I found the original article the PressTVIR evidently used as a base. It was in a publication called The Diplomat.

The Diplomat -Five Reasons Not to Attack Iran

He listed 5. PressTV chopped them up into 7. They also left a few things out like this bit that occurs near the end of the original article.

While Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s bellicose statements make good political theater, there is rarely much behind them. To suggest that Ahmadinejad is all bark and no bite is not far from the truth. The fact is that the Iranian regime is more risk averse than many give it credit for. Regime survival is of paramount concern and greatly explains why the regime acts as it does. Pushing the regime to the edge may turn empty threats into reality and will certainly undermine any effort by President Barack Obama to save defense dollars.

I wonder why PressTV would leave that bit out?

Anyway, the original article gives a good bit more info about what the author is actually saying that the PressTV bit which has been edited significantly.

Nice work! One need only see that its Iranian media to tell its drivel.

Iranian leaders are doing everything they can to stay in power. They may even start a war!

Wag the dog, anyone? It's not a tradition started in America!

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by Recollector
the_professional wants to look smart, while he is exactly the opposite.

Dude, pls ask iranian citizenship and move there.Ahmadinejad butt will be closer to your lips.

I CAN'T WAIT the day when Israel will kick Iran's ass, so i can happily say to you :''see dude, the mighty iranian army is destroyed by the cowardly israelis''.

Its very sad that the world is filled with people like you

How can you say you can't wait for Israel to kick there ass?

There is no evidence that Iran is building these weapons,
and if the usa/un, whatever attacks Iran false aligations,
then i hope they get brought to justice. This war machine
has too stop before we all get dragged unto ww3

When are people going to realuse that governments want
war, not the people. Well, about 98% of the people don't
want war.

You've obviously missed most of my posts in this thread and 90% of all reports on Iran.

Go ahead and keep repeating your garbage. You are the one people should feel sad for. You live in ignorance and dismiss reality as conspiracy.

Go back to your support of Iran...

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Abraham Lincoln
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Allow the president to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such a purpose - and you allow him to make war at pleasure.

I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts.

I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong.

I do not think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

I do the very best I know how - the very best I can; and I mean to keep on doing so until the end.

reply to post by D8ncer






You could have 100 reasons not to do it.


It still does not change the number 1 reason to do it------OIL




By the way I hate these wars for profit. But what I want and other Americans want means nothing.