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posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 12:38 PM
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The consequences of reward and penalty, give and take, seem to be at the heart of the universe. In Eastern philosophies this concept translates to Karma, in Christianity this is roughly works and sin, and in physics this is represented by Newton's third law of motion, "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction".

Often in life, we'd like to reap the benefits and rewards, while dodging all the consequences and penalties. We are programmed to seek reward.

Jesus was a man who was able to keep giving. And keep giving. And keep giving. Despite what was taken from him (his clothes, his flesh, his blood, his life) he prayed for his persecutors and helped them up until the moment he died on the cross at their hands.

Man took all from him, and he gave all that he was.

He suggested that this kind of giving and suffering for others leads to a greater reward. Thus, we are asked to seek suffering first.

This is something that goes much deeper than 2nd grade Sunday school notions of "getting into heaven" and "getting out of hell". This suggests consequences and rewards that happen in this life.

For the believers, what reward is this? What have you gained from your faith? What has manifested in your life to increase your faith? To hinder it?

To the unbelievers, in your opinion do the cons of following Christ appear to outweigh the pros?
edit on 1/9/2012 by DarkKnight21 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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To the unbelievers, in your opinion do the cons of following Christ appear to outweigh the pros?


To myself as unbeliever there are no pros. It's all cons.

The biggest problem I see is that believers expect to be judged only to find they will have to judge themselves. Although I do not expect most people to believe this to be true please try to imagine it to be so.

You will find that most "selfless acts" are in fact selfish acts. Very few human beings have the capacity to actually do something without anything in return. I am not speaking about simple physical returns but am referring to ego and "society values".

Really think about it.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 12:54 PM
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Thanks for your input. Though I disagree that there are "no pros", this is a meditation that I hope will be beneficial to all of us. It cuts to the very heart of why some people have faith and why others don't.

IMO what we give up in the material, we gain in the spiritual.



The biggest problem I see is that believers expect to be judged only to find they will have to judge themselves. Although I do not expect most people to believe this to be true please try to imagine it to be so.


Could you please elaborate on this? I am not sure I fully understand what you mean by this statement.


You will find that most "selfless acts" are in fact selfish acts. Very few human beings have the capacity to actually do something without anything in return. I am not speaking about simple physical returns but am referring to ego and "society values".


Yes, but just because someone feels good for donating to charity doesn't necessarily make them selfish for it. Maybe giving just genuinely makes them happy. Either way the charity benefits more than the giver, simply because the giver has sacrificed more. The act is inherently selfless despite its repercussions.




Really think about it.


We must first weigh the pros and cons my friend. What rewards do you take from life, if you don't mind my asking?
edit on 1/9/2012 by DarkKnight21 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by DarkKnight21
Thanks for your input. Though I disagree that there are "no pros", this is a meditation that I hope will be beneficial to all of us. It cuts to the very heart of why some people have faith and why others don't.

IMO what we give up in the material, we gain in the spiritual.



The biggest problem I see is that believers expect to be judged only to find they will have to judge themselves. Although I do not expect most people to believe this to be true please try to imagine it to be so.


Could you please elaborate on this? I am not sure I fully understand what you mean by this statement.

Logically one would be his own judge if there is such thing as being judged once you die. Your energy will transform and can be shaped according to that judgement. (Theoretically)





You will find that most "selfless acts" are in fact selfish acts. Very few human beings have the capacity to actually do something without anything in return. I am not speaking about simple physical returns but am referring to ego and "society values".


Yes, but just because someone feels good for donating to charity doesn't necessarily make them selfish for it. Maybe giving just genuinely makes them happy. Either way the charity benefits more than the giver, simply because the giver has sacrificed more. The act is inherently selfless despite its repercussions.

Well from a humane perspective one would agree but purely scientifically speaking you could say that it directly benefits the benefactor. It can be that his status within his circle of friends or community would increase. Or one would calculate his charity to have a certain leverage in a situation.

It might be a gloomy and dark view upon mankind but time has shown that this is what man seems to be behaving like.

I don't pass judgement on it as in the end it's beneficial to it's species and can be seen as a good natural behavior pattern to ensure long survival of the species.



Really think about it.


We must first weigh the pros and cons my friend. What rewards do you take from life, if you don't mind my asking?
edit on 1/9/2012 by DarkKnight21 because: (no reason given)


The reward is greatest when one of my pupils advances in something I taught them.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by no special characters
Well from a humane perspective one would agree but purely scientifically speaking you could say that it directly benefits the benefactor. It can be that his status within his circle of friends or community would increase. Or one would calculate his charity to have a certain leverage in a situation.

It might be a gloomy and dark view upon mankind but time has shown that this is what man seems to be behaving like.


I would say that is more of a broad sociological assumption rather than a purely scientific standpoint. If someone is using "charity" to elevate themselves for something like political gain then it is raw egotism (Rick Perry - great example) and I agree that is wrong. In this case he is not motivated by Spirit, but for himself. His message expects more in return than for what it gives.

Bottom line most of the time purely unselfish acts are done behind closed doors and do not demand recognition by the benefactor. This is why you never hear about it. If charity is not humble then it is not true charity. Emphasis on reward by its very nature is a little selfish, as it places expectations on the gift given, thereby demanding more in return.
edit on 1/9/2012 by DarkKnight21 because: (no reason given)



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