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Does only an evil species develop interstellar travel?

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posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 09:23 AM
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Someone clever on my Alien Invasion thread mentioned what if Hitler had won WW2 and developed interstellar travel and that made me think a horrible thought. What if only a malevolent species are able to travel across the universe.

Why? It is well know that Hitler and others used prisoners in all manner of dreadful experiments and some of those benefited future space programs. Crass, cynical and dreadful as it was, it is true.


What if a good people simply can’t not make or contemplate taking the necessary grotesque steps possible [including using/sacrificing their people as guinea pigs] to make light and faster than light speed travel possible?




posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 09:28 AM
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Evil is subjective. We perform experiments on animals (lower life forms) all the time so does that make us evil?



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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I'm pretty sure 'evil' is just a human concept.

Do you see animals, bugs, fish, or any other life on this planet sulking about with dastardly mustaches surrounded by henchmen in their lairs of doom, bent on forcing the rest of the world to their wills just because it's evil?

No.

What if an alien civilization evolved to communicate with biological information by exchange of viruses?
An extremely happy, friendly and entirely nice "hello neighbor" could kill us all.

oops. Not evil. just alien.
edit on 9-1-2012 by nineix because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by mandroids
 



Does only an evil species develop interstellar travel?,


It's a decent theory. An evil conqueror would be more likely to branch out for more worlds to conquer. A happy and comfortable society is more likely to focus efforts at home, create social programs, live within their means, and appreciate what they have.

It makes sense to me that a race that pushed far out into the cosmos would be a warrior race with a penchant for adventure and a fearless drive.

Kind of scary when you think about it.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 09:36 AM
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Let’s leave the semantics and academic definitions of good and evil to one side, you know what I mean. a species willing to do nasty things in order to push the technolgy far enough to gain space/star travel.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by mandroids
 





Why? It is well know that Hitler and others used prisoners in all manner of dreadful experiments

Its also well known that U.S and British Governments used their own troops to conduct all manner of dreadful experiments .
Look back throughout history and you will find that the Human race is a pretty evil species , yet we don't have interstellar travel .
Maybe its more of a case that a species needs to have evolved beyond their animalistic tendencies to develop such technologies , team work rather than conquest .
edit on 9-1-2012 by gortex because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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I feel like once a civilization gets too that level...

Evil to them.. Would be not letting us in on the secrets of the universe. They would be all knowing, So instead of killing us, how much worse would it be to just leave us alone.. never visiting us.. leaving us here on this rock.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 09:40 AM
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I think its just as likely that an aggressive warrior race would annihilate themselves though war before they ever managed to gain enough technology start expanding to other universes and civilizations.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by mandroids
 


I am not sure-I sort of like to believe in Karma,so I would hope any super nasty alien race would get their asses kicked if they started being too nasty in terms of taking over other planets without regard to the inhabitants welfare.

But then again,If this race of aliens is that "evil"then they would not have any moral constraints to prevent them from doing things some would call unethical.
So in theory,they could progress towards interstellar travel quicker than a race who is bound by a moral code.
If you see what I mean.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by mandroids
 


'nasty things' is also entirely subjective to perspective.

What a human might consider as evil, the alien species may have no conscious idea that they are doing anything wrong at all. They may not even have a concept of 'right', or 'wrong'.
They may measure everything by degrees of efficiency, so, the closest thing to a concept of 'wrong' to them might interpret as 'inefficient'.


edit on 9-1-2012 by nineix because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 09:44 AM
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It is well know that the Nazis used 'non jewish' physics to push their theories and might have developed such technology faster than we will and have used POW'S as labour.

[various books by Joseph p Farrell make this point about not using relativistic physics]



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by mandroids
 


Using POWs/slaves as forced labor can also hinder technological progress-
Many of the folks who were forced to work for the nazis would sabotage equipment/factories even though it meant death if they were found out.
Hence alot of the tech that the Germans thought were going to give them the edge,did not give them the edge as they didn't work as they were supposed to(due to sabotage).



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Evil is subjective. We perform experiments on animals (lower life forms) all the time so does that make us evil?


Yes, that makes us evil
This time a short answer was enough



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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Let us define 'evil' as an expansionist, aggressive dictatorship/empire having just achieved a planetary unification through force. I feel like such a civilization, should it hold together against rebellion and civil war long enough would begin to explore the next frontier. If they had a planet like Mars, they could begin terraforming and use it as a dumping ground for dissidents and political exiles. If there is a strong drive to explore the stars a space program would be much accelerated from ours. They could build laser stabilized very large array telescopes in space and search the heavens for the nearest habitable planets with free oxygen in the atmosphere, and then send a warfleet/colony fleet that way. If that planet is inhabited: alien invasion time!
edit on 9-1-2012 by Mkoll because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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I do not believe interstellar travel should be considered an ability exclusive to malevolent species. Technological development tends to follow a path of necessity, thus any intelligent species that evolves in a hostile environment must first develop weapons and/or defenses if their natural abilities are insufficient to protect themselves. Civil technologies such as irrigation, transportation become priorities after the dangers of the surrounding environment are conquered.

Technology develops in a path such as this:
Necessity -> Comfort/Quality of living -> Curiousity
(first ensure your own survival, then make your life easier, then search beyond for new possibilites)

Our Space Race arose because of Curiousity, but the paranoid thought that whoever conquers space will be able to establish weapons platforms in orbit and rain fire on their enemies made it Necessity. However, with the fall of the Soviet Union establishing the United States as the dominant power of our age, there was no longer a percieved Necessity to put weapons in space; communications satelites and the like became the new priority.

If a species on another world was more warlike and power hungry than us humans, they would likely be locked in a continous arms race in an attempt to conquer eachother. The danger presented by the existence of hostile nations makes weapons development a Necessity. Consider this: if their race is constantly fighting eachother, would they ever have time to develope flight out of curiousity, or would they prioritize development of land and sea based war machines?

I imagine such a species being far ahead of us in weapons technology, having massive dreadnaughts and tanks with railguns and weaponized lasers, but confined to the surface of their world. Unless of course one side wins out and a world empire begins, and their curiousity finally leads them to the stars. But with such a hostile nature, would the world empire be able to preserve peace long enough? Would there not be multiple uprisings to shake the foundations of this empire?

It's more likely, in my opinion, that the races that make it to the stars are either like us with moderate temperaments, capable of diplomacy but holding our own interests as primary, seeking to expand in search of resources, OR they are primarily scientific, seeking knowledge above all else, valuing peace and self-sufficient prosperity rather than conquest and expansion.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by Glass
 


I think there are multiple paths that war technology like that could go down. Let's say they develop on a low gravity, dense atmosphere planet where flight is easy, and perhaps even 'man' powered flight is possible. They would likely concentrate on airborne combat. Curiosity would lead to space, necessity would lead to weaponization of space and rapid advances.

However you are right that a planet constantly embroiled in war is more likely to skip over branches on the technology tree and develop the ones they are familiar with.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by Mkoll
 


A good point, but a species developing on such a planet would have little interest in conquering a planet such as ours with the intent of colonization. The lower pressure of our thinner atmosphere coupled with our stronger gravity would make our world less habitable to them; they would have to wear pressurized suits with mechanically assisted movement. If they were to expand in search of resources, mining other worlds with robotic drones controlled from the safety of their ship would perhaps be more efficient.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by Glass
 


Heh, now that you mention drones, this hypothetical race we just thought up sounds exactly like the Moriggi from the Sword of the Stars universe.

I wonder if they would be interested in colonizing gas giants with the right properties?



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by nineix
reply to post by mandroids
 


'nasty things' is also entirely subjective to perspective.

What a human might consider as evil, the alien species may have no conscious idea that they are doing anything wrong at all. They may not even have a concept of 'right', or 'wrong'.
They may measure everything by degrees of efficiency, so, the closest thing to a concept of 'wrong' to them might interpret as 'inefficient'.


edit on 9-1-2012 by nineix because: (no reason given)


How about if an alien efficiently raped your grandmother for its own gratification?

Would that be subjectively "evil" ?

bizarre



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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If you say "service to self" and "service to ego" is evil and service to all is good then you have a point. The power pyramid will always corrupt and the increased knowledge will make "service to self/ego" suicidal. We are at the threashold and it is a miracle we have not destroyed ourselves yeet. Wonder how many more years we can make it at current level and how much more advances we can handle if we don't change from service to self/ego.

Namaste.



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