Deputy Leader of UK calls Scots Extremists

Like elections are fair and democracy exists anyway............. Nobody unless you are rich has the right to self-determination, what about your right in the north to self determination?

It just makes no sense other than a few nationalist racists. The BNP are viewed as extremists so why the SNP?

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That's just it, England isn't a major force in the world, our economy is like what 7th now? This is mainly due to Thatchers reforms (which boosted us in the short term but forced into long term downward spiral). The fact with this is, Britain together isn't as weak - Its a lot stronger.

Why shouldn't we go to EU control? Because at least with the current system I have some form of illusion of choice, the people that run Europe are not even voted in.

Edit;

I would like to clarify something from earlier - I was not arguing GB or the UK would stay the same as clearly that would not be the case (as one country would no longer be in it) what I was arguing is that we would carry on using these names regardless of whether Scotland were apart of it or not because they're apart of our identity and heritage and our traditions + It would cost us a helluva lot to stop using them and wouldn't be very effective, as the brand is already well known.
With or without Scotland GB would continue (though not in its current state) because its greater than Scotland.

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Also whatever guy said about countries returning to the Soviet Bloc would be pretty hard considering the Soviet Bloc stopped existing.

To do with countries returning to previous masters, its usually masters that cut the ties and give up on countries.

reply to post by ollncasino

Still, while the Americans, Chinese, Germans and Japanese control the world economy, the UK doesn't

Please forgive me but I am a simple man and I get confused quite easily.

Here on ATS we English are repeatedly told that we run the banking and financial systems of the world and are the home to the masters of the NWO and are guiding and manipulating all world events to further our own agenda.
But we are also told that we are nothing, totally irrelevant and have contributed nothing to human development.

So which is it?

And why does it seem that everyone who isn't English is so obsessed with England and the English, more so in fact than the vast majority of English themselves?

Being Scottish born breed and still live there I feel all the back and forth child like arguing over who owns who get what from whom is all rubbish.

Every single person here in this debate has probably at some point posted about how we have no democracy, how the powers that be never listen but here is a chance for full on proper democracy in action and your all to busy arguing like children to notice this.

The PEOPLE of SCOTLAND will decide on this not the English not the Welsh or the Irish WE will, WE will decied for ourselves and WE will have to live with that decision.

So you all need to stop being arm chair quarter backs and watch democracy in action as we should all have access to.

Originally posted by RebellionOutlaw
Like elections are fair and democracy exists anyway............. Nobody unless you are rich has the right to self-determination, what about your right in the north to self determination?

It just makes no sense other than a few nationalist racists. The BNP are viewed as extremists so why the SNP?

-

That's just it, England isn't a major force in the world, our economy is like what 7th now? This is mainly due to Thatchers reforms (which boosted us in the short term but forced into long term downward spiral). The fact with this is, Britain together isn't as weak - Its a lot stronger.

Why shouldn't we go to EU control? Because at least with the current system I have some form of illusion of choice, the people that run Europe are not even voted in.

Edit;

I would like to clarify something from earlier - I was not arguing GB or the UK would stay the same as clearly that would not be the case (as one country would no longer be in it) what I was arguing is that we would carry on using these names regardless of whether Scotland were apart of it or not because they're apart of our identity and heritage and our traditions + It would cost us a helluva lot to stop using them and wouldn't be very effective, as the brand is already well known.
With or without Scotland GB would continue (though not in its current state) because its greater than Scotland.

-


Also whatever guy said about countries returning to the Soviet Bloc would be pretty hard considering the Soviet Bloc stopped existing.

To do with countries returning to previous masters, its usually masters that cut the ties and give up on countries.

edit on 10-1-2012 by RebellionOutlaw because: clarification

Other than a few nationalist racists?

What aspect of SNP policy would you say was racist? What policy has the Scottish government pursued that could cause offence to any race? Repost any comment that I have made that could even conceivably be considered racist? I am after all a member of the SNP and must, therefore, be a racist.

The United Kingdom government could, however, be accused of following racist policies - the extermination of thousands of Iraqis in an illegal war and their tacit support of Israel in subjugating Palestinians to name but two. An independent Scotland would not have been involved in these actions - hardly surprising some of us 'nationalist racists' feel we'd be better separated.

You, young man, are what we refer to up here as a dobber.

Originally posted by Freeborn
Here on ATS we English are repeatedly told that we run the banking and financial systems of the world and are the home to the masters of the NWO and are guiding and manipulating all world events to further our own agenda.
But we are also told that we are nothing, totally irrelevant and have contributed nothing to human development.

While the UK has contributed a great deal to human development, that was a long time ago.

In more recent times Thatcher's deregulation of the banking sector has eventually caused the largest banking crisis since the great depression (essentially Thatcher allowed banks to gamble with normal peoples' savings, which was previously forbidden. Reagan followed suits and repealed the US Glass Steagall act of 1932).

en.wikipedia.org...

The British being both directly and indirectly responsible for the current baking is hardly something to be proud of.

Apart from being a dominant player in the current banking crisis, what has the UK done in the last 20 years?

What exactly are they bringing to the party?

That is pure conjecture you cannot say "an independent Scotland would not have been involved in these wars" because in my opinion even if UK never existed and Scotland wasn't annexed, they would of been close partners just like member states of the EU who are involved in this.

I think a lot of anti-English sentiment is within this topic and I believe it is borderline if not out right racist against English people.

I also think that the SNP are a racist party. They're a nationalist party, and all nationalist parties are racist - What they are doing is not much different to what Hitler done instead LETS BLAME THE ENGLISH BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MAKE US LOOK SO BAD. Its stupid, pathetic and the complete opposite of progressive. I can't wait to the SNP is destroyed when their referendum fails.

edit; I'm still waiting on your evidence.


Also all of these crimes that were committed by the Empire, were not committed by England alone they were c committed by wait for it THE BRITISH EMPIRE - Scotlands hands were just as deep in the pie as the English hands were, our two parliaments became one parliament - Scottish MPs have had a say in these affairs and until the Glorious Revolution a Scottish King was involved directly in these wars.

Perhaps a look at why the Scots are constantly looking at independence ,some of my own observations others may have different views:

England's little England attitude,
They don't seem to realise we in Britain are 33 miles form Europe and 2,000 miles from America.
Privatisation of everything since they vote in Tory Government EG gas/elec/rail /water
etc and none of them are any better but all are more expensive.
Illegal wars that they seem happy to jump when America say jump?
London getting everything EG 9billion spent on Olympics and now 32 billion spent in the south with hs rail link to Birmingham, why not start this in say Glasgow heading south of Newcastle heading in both directions?
Poll Tax
corruption/cronism/with the city of London.
Maggie Thatcher
Torys sell of everything British and let foreigners buy it/sell it or shut it down EG cars,steel etc etc
we have turn into a call center/banking country everything else has been sold or is for sale!!!
The English apparently love this as they consistently vote the torys in.

Or perhaps it history in bred as Robert burns said when the two country's were united without the Scots peoples wishing it .It was our nobles:

Fareweel to a' our Scottish fame,
Fareweel our ancient glory;
Fareweel ev'n to the Scottish name,
Sae fam'd in martial story.
Now Sark rins over Solway sands,
An' Tweed rins to the ocean,
To mark where England's province stands-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

What force or guile could not subdue,
Thro' many warlike ages,
Is wrought now by a coward few,
For hireling traitor's wages.
The English stell we could disdain,
Secure in valour's station;
But English gold has been our bane-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

O would, or I had seen the day
That Treason thus could sell us,
My auld grey head had lien in clay,
Wi' Bruce and loyal Wallace!
But pith and power, till my last hour,
I'll mak this declaration;
We're bought and sold for English gold-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

Originally posted by RebellionOutlaw
That is pure conjecture you cannot say "an independent Scotland would not have been involved in these wars" because in my opinion even if UK never existed and Scotland wasn't annexed, they would of been close partners just like member states of the EU who are involved in this.

I think a lot of anti-English sentiment is within this topic and I believe it is borderline if not out right racist against English people.

I also think that the SNP are a racist party. They're a nationalist party, and all nationalist parties are racist - What they are doing is not much different to what Hitler done instead LETS BLAME THE ENGLISH BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MAKE US LOOK SO BAD. Its stupid, pathetic and the complete opposite of progressive. I can't wait to the SNP is destroyed when their referendum fails.

edit; I'm still waiting on your evidence.

edit on 10-1-2012 by RebellionOutlaw because: missed

Well, you've finally gone and done it.

Even your better educated, more mature and more informed countrymen tried to gently get you to desist by telling you that you were wrong about everything you've posted this evening but you continued regardless. Now this....

Staggering!

Majority of English people hate the Tories and all their policies.

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A poem is the only evidence to them selling out the Scottish people.

edit; Still waiting on that evidence.

and "countrymen" why does it matter what country I come from? And even in this case - I am half Scottish, half my family is Scottish.


If phrases like that don't prove your overt racism towards the English people then what does?

reply to post by RebellionOutlaw


They vote them in?
Read or learn some History !!

Originally posted by Freeborn
And why does it seem that everyone who isn't English is so obsessed with England and the English, more so in fact than the vast majority of English themselves?

Why is the English deputy leader of the UK so obsessed with Scots independence?

By the way, no one is obsessed with England and the English. Not even the English.

Originally posted by RebellionOutlaw

I also think that the SNP are a racist party. They're a nationalist party, and all nationalist parties are racist - What they are doing is not much different to what Hitler done

Simply staggered by this comment.

I think you need to have your gas appliances checked.

I'm laughing but you are completely aff yer heid .

reply to post by ollncasino


Thatcher was an evil, evil woman and we are feeling the full impact of her policies now.

Apart from being at the forefront of music, art, architecture, dance, theatre, film making, literature,
the internet etc probably very little.
Oh, some people may not be proud of it but we are very much at the cutting edge of most things military.
Much research and development occurs in the UK especially in pharmaceutical and chemical industries.

I'm sure there's a few more that those more learned and informed than I could list.

But, yeah, we've let our standards slip somewhat recently.

And let's not forget we are the number one ranked Test playing cricket nation at present - something that gives me immense pleasure and pride!

reply to post by ollncasino

By the way, no one is obsessed with England and the English. Not even the English.

Judging by the amount of comments posted and the passion and at times hatred shown here on ATS I'd suggest you were very much wrong....but it's unprovable and as such will always be just my humble opinion and nothing more.

ETA.

Why is the English deputy leader of the UK so obsessed with Scots independence?

Because as has been generally agreed by everyone he is a twat of the highest order.

But as the saying goes "What have the Romans ever done for us?"

but more seriously,its time to go our separate ways.
England can embrace GW Bush and any other lunatic Leaders they elect.
Us Scots will plod on into the European state and trade there,hopefully with no nukes,no aircraft carriers as we wont be invading anyone and wont have delusions of grandiose or greatness.
perhaps we will have decent roads,health care,education some industry's to give us employment.

Time will tell

reply to post by clanger


Every one of your observations you listed could also apply to practically everyone in both N.E. and N.W. England.

You used to be part of Scotland for a while,come join us.
I like the geordies, at least we would have a laugh

Originally posted by Freeborn
Apart from being at the forefront of music, art, architecture, dance, theatre, film making, literature,
the internet etc probably very little.

Music? In the 1980s, not now.
Art? Who cares.
Dance? A world leader in dance???
Theatre? That will set the world alight.
Film making? Habe you ever heard of Hollywood and Bollywood?
Litrature?
The Internet? Yet the hardware is made in Taiwan, uses US software, with DNS look up tables in the USA.

Again, what has the Uk done in the last 20 years?

Not much by the looks of it.

Originally posted by Freeborn
Oh, some people may not be proud of it but we are very much at the cutting edge of most things military.
Much research and development occurs in the UK especially in pharmaceutical and chemical industries.

Yet British global GDP has dropped from about 6% of the world's GDP in 2000 to 3.5% today.

Rule Britiania.

Originally posted by Freeborn
Much research and development occurs in the UK especially in pharmaceutical and chemical industries.

By the way, you will find that R&D in the UK, for a Western economy, is actually depressingly low.

reply to post by ollncasino


I take it you aren't the cultural type then?