Spending billions on pipeline will quickly pay off, experts say , page 1

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Topic started on 9-1-2012 @ 03:03 AM by boncho

Spending billions on pipeline will quickly pay off, experts say

www.edmontonjournal.com...

....spending billions quickly, then enjoying a steady economic return over the decades.

Enbridge’s $5.5-billion Northern Gateway pipeline will do that and more, the firm says.

According to Enbridge’s estimates, the pipeline will create about 400 direct and indirect permanent jobs along its route.

As well, it will generate 1,150 jobs across Canada in the manufacturing of equipment (such as monitoring and pumping) and the provision of specialized services (such as maintenance) to keep the line.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Related News Links:
www.theglobeandmail.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Enbridge pipeline breaks, spills 19,500 barrels

edit on 9-1-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 9-1-2012 @ 03:03 AM by boncho

Well, the added jobs in the construction of this pipeline is a great thing. Unfortunately, just taking the jobs into account seems a little shortsighted.

The pipeline aims to run through some of the most pristine areas of British Columbia.

Areas like this:

Not only will this cause disruption to these areas during construction, it will facilitate the oil sands projects for faster and cheaper delivery of their products.

Of course, the oil sands have been tearing up the Alberta countryside for awhile now. Leaving it looking like this:

So then we are left with a scarred country just to pump out some hard to reach bitumen.

I am all for business, but one thing that bothers me is how nice that area is and the potential to destroy it. Very close to where the pipeline is going in is a town called Taylor. One of the few places where they process sour gas.

Upon entering the town, most people would get nauseated from the smell. The place seems uninhabitable until you acclimate yourself to the stink.

For a town of 1,300 people, Taylor has a very large industrial base and calls itself "The Industrial Capital of the North".[19] Industrial plants include the Westcoast Energy's McMahon plant for natural gas processing with sulfur recovery and cogeneration, two straddle plants which extract ethane and other impurities from liquid natural gas, Fiberco Pulp's chemi-thermomechanical pulp mill, Peace River Greenhouses' silviculture facility for reforestation projects, and several smaller sawmills.

en.wikipedia.org...

So some might say "well, it's just a pipeline."

Which is true, but it's Enbridge building it. The same company that suffered a broken pipeline not to long ago. -Thread linked Here-

Oil is great it seems, as long as it's not in your own backyard.

www.edmontonjournal.com...
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 9-1-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 9-1-2012 @ 03:20 AM by CosmicEgg

Sounds like the company won't be the one investing the billions to build it either. Seems like another ploy to further impoverish those already finding it hard to make ends meet. I'm sure there's a better solution than oil. I'm sure there are other ways to improve employment prospects without destroying so much in the process. Perhaps that quick "fix" (as they want you to believe) has a price tag that's just too high over the long term.

reply posted on 9-1-2012 @ 03:32 AM by boncho

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
Sounds like the company won't be the one investing the billions to build it either. Seems like another ploy to further impoverish those already finding it hard to make ends meet. I'm sure there's a better solution than oil. I'm sure there are other ways to improve employment prospects without destroying so much in the process. Perhaps that quick "fix" (as they want you to believe) has a price tag that's just too high over the long term.

There was a good article last year about how the Alberta Government was getting shafted on the oil sands royalties. Something to do with the tax breaks that were going to the operating companies.

Syncrude and Canadian Oil Sands Limited are both tied into Power Corporation.

You can see here on the Power Corporation website within the board of directors (Here is just one):

Mr. Coutu is President and Chief Executive Officer of Canadian Oil Sands Limited and Chairman of Syncrude Canada Ltd., one of Canada’s largest oil sands projects.

Power Corporation of course is the Desmarais family. One of the most powerful families in Canada. With tentacles that stretch well into the Political and Business world, far outreaching most other established names in Canada's elite crowd.

Desmarais

Power Corporation

Canada is selling itself off like a cheap whore.

reply posted on 9-1-2012 @ 03:47 AM by CosmicEgg

Seems like it's time to start saying No to this kind of thing. Enough is enough. They really are just taking the mick now. The common man is now heavily in debt. Seems as though we aren't enough in debt though because worldwide, governments seem to want to sink the little guy deeper in it. This sort of measure will only ensure that.

What would work nicely is widespread unemployment. No taxes coming in, no monies going out. All the governmental scheming and nefarious activities might just come to a grinding halt. Corporations, subsidized farming and all the rest would lose huge amounts of free cash and would have to curtail their activities, perhaps even having to use real management methods rather than the exploitation and shady dealings they do now. Maybe, like the banks, they would have to remember who their customers are if we push things far enough and hard enough.

At the end of the day, we might even remember that we hold all the power. It could happen.

reply posted on 9-1-2012 @ 03:53 AM by boncho

reply to post by boncho

To add further to it, I found an article about the unfair tax incentives for Alberta and the oilsands.

Article can be found here

It goes on to say that "An audit has shown Alberta's oilsands royalties system to be an embarrassment to the province, the Alberta Federation of Labour said today."

Other than that it is pretty bare. Really, it just outlines the fact that the big companies working their projects out there were the ones to win in the long run. The Province will be the left with the scarred Earth and Environmental damage in the end.

Of course, this isn't a new issue.

Lately, there was a PR blitz to push forward the pipeline, citing that without the pipeline, $72 Billion was to be lost.

reply posted on 9-1-2012 @ 04:14 AM by jude11

Boncho, you nailed this one.

I live very close to this and nothing sickens me more than going out on my patio for a morning coffee and..."WTF is that I smell?"

I am just South of there but have a smelter on my door step in a town of 8,000.

I am looking for my out.

S&F

Peace

reply posted on 9-1-2012 @ 04:18 AM by LiberalSceptic

This will go in the same direction as it always does.

Allot of talk and when the project is finished, all turns into s**t.
The jobs will disappear due to automation, and the only people benefiting from this will be the usual ones. Big corporations..
And if there will be any jobs left, they will be in the boardrooms, only available for those whom already have more than enough.

Will the taxpayers have to empty their pockets for the build cost as well?

Perhaps I am taking a far to negative viewpoint on this issue?

edit on 9-1-2012 by LiberalSceptic because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 9-1-2012 @ 04:26 AM by boncho

reply to post by LiberalSceptic

No, that seems like a fair assessment. But people will look at the short term jobs and be content with it for now. Unfortunately, when it runs out they will be looking to the next Mega Projects that will provide the same kind of worth.

This leads us into a never ending circle of boom and bust in the job market, and also doesn't take into account all the useless infrastructure that will be left behind.

With these projects comes schools, housing, commercial space, etc. When the jobs leave, so do the people. Most of the planning is done short term, so not all of it will be planned to last forever.

We don't seem to plan things for generations, we seem to plan for the next decade or at most two and then flop.

Environmental cleanup is going to be a nightmare in 100 years from now. That, and demolition for infrastructure that runs it's course.

At one time they built things to last hundreds of years, we think about tomorrow and the day after.

reply posted on 9-1-2012 @ 04:33 AM by LiberalSceptic

reply to post by boncho

Well as I have written before; the development of our society is not being done to benefit humans in general, but to benefit the pockets of those in control.
Most development plans are being done short-term, to generate as much money as possible and not to do as much good as possible.

reply posted on 9-1-2012 @ 04:36 AM by C0bzz

Where should the energy to fuel transportation come from then? Bear in mind that oil is rarely used to generate electricity in north america, but rather it is used for transportation, therefore wind and solar cannot replace oil directly. I see criticism but no solutions...

edit on 9/1/12 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 9-1-2012 @ 04:37 AM by boncho

Originally posted by LiberalSceptic
reply to post by boncho

Well as I have written before; the development of our society is not being done to benefit humans in general, but to benefit the pockets of those in control.
Most development plans are being done short-term, to generate as much money as possible and not to do as much good as possible.

Yes, I don't think there is anything wrong with that inherently. You will always have someone more wealthy than another person. There will always be leaders and there will always be people to motivate others to work, act, etc.

It is getting to a point though, where our scientific knowledge should be able to have more influence on some business decisions.

But alas, I assume that is why they killed a lot of "sorcerers" back in the 12th Century... Keep things kosher...

edit on 9-1-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 9-1-2012 @ 04:40 AM by boncho

Originally posted by C0bzz
Where should the energy to power transportation come from then? Bear in mind that oil is rarely used for electricity in north america, instead oil is used for transportation which wind and solar cannot power directly.

Of course oil is needed. But Canada is tearing up its land and building this pipeline to sell the oil off. Not even using it itself. Heck, the pipline is needed for export. But Canada sells as much oil as it uses. But it buys from other countries!

It makes no sense.

All the oil could be used to supply Canada. It doesn't need a pipeline. At least then there would be some justification for the Oilsands, because it would benefit every person in the country.

reply posted on 9-1-2012 @ 05:15 AM by LiberalSceptic

reply to post by C0bzz

I agree with you that wind and solar so far can not replace oil, no doubt about that. The grid for the alternative energy solutions are way to fragile and weak.
This is a fact that makes it hard to reason about what to do in situations like we are talking about in this thread.

reply posted on 9-1-2012 @ 05:17 AM by CosmicEgg

reply to post by boncho

Speaking of mega-projects, maybe this is a way for them to get their insane plan to build a railroad from Alaska to Russia across the Bering. Can you imagine? Oh yeah, loads of dangerous jobs for loads of desperately unemployed people, but those are likely to be Russians because they will work for next to nothing, which is a lot better than the nothing they get now. Those jobs won't be for Westerners. Too many benefits. And as there will be engineers involved, there will be plenty of deaths. Can't have survivors benefits and trials and all that going on. Jobs will go to Russians. Fifteen years to build it? Trillions of dollars of investment by governments, for sure. Can you see it being finished? Can you see delays upon delays? Can you see "unexpected" catastrophe? But....jobs!

The common man is myopic. Someone get him fitted for glasses. And not those damn hipster things either. He already looks like quite enough of a fool as it is.

reply posted on 9-1-2012 @ 09:33 AM by Corruption Exposed

reply to post by boncho

Quickly pay off?

Maybe for the corporate thugs who are set to make billions off this deal. I've seen similar deals before and the pay off for the general public is temporary and almost non existent.

If you think those pictures are nice, I have been there many times and it's even more breath taking in real life. News like this irritates me to the point where I don't even want to hear the news anymore

The line between the rich and the poor keeps getting bigger and TPTB are being blatant with their greed but try and disguise it with false promises of financial gain for the regular folk.

The thing is, we can't stop it no matter how hard we try.

Canda has become something I'm ashamed of.

reply posted on 9-1-2012 @ 09:49 AM by proteus33

big companies always do this we greedy short sighted goverment officials let them which unfortunately is most of the time . in canada you got oil companies making average joe pay for their infrastructure then reneging on royalties
in my state we have wehyauser clear cutting pristine forests for pulp and the way they get around law requiring them to build back is they turn cleared out area into golfing communiries and sell quarter acre lots for 250 k a pop .
we had 4 built in my area in last 10 years half then homes are now sitting abandoned because people got foreclosed on. canada and ud should do like chavez and nationalize their oil production.
.

reply posted on 9-1-2012 @ 04:12 PM by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

No crap it will pay off quickly, economically speaking. And that is all that the economic elite and their puppet Harper care about in this country.

How could anyone expect both our federal and provincial governments to care about environmental and cultural costs when we just cancelled our Kyoto commitment? Albertan government only cares about expanding its economy through more and more environmentally destructive prospects, while my BC government also has a similar perspective with focusing on building more mines and initial production industry.

And the worst part is that for all that we are doing, our government has no interest in doing it for the sake of a more powerful Canada. This is all about providing more cheap resources to the US to keep that beast afloat, through NAFTA commitments. We don't even profit from selling them bitumen, for Christ's sake.

reply posted on 10-1-2012 @ 12:22 AM by boncho

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Well said.