Reasons the King James Bible is Superior to the "Originals"

reply to post by dilly1

He was so egotistical(and rightfully so,he was a genius) that he would rather say God was the holy influence than glorifying another human with equal smarts as himself created the coded "three levels" within your unified document.

But the Bible wasn't written by "another human", it was written by 40 of them over the span of thousands of years with most of them never meeting or talking to the other authors. (That eliminates the possibility of collusion) So if all the books carry the exact same coding structures under the text that should tell you that the real mastermind behind it wasn't the different human authors, they were men like you and I who merely held the writing utensils.

Even if Francis Bacon edited the KJB, (we're still awaiting proof of that claim), Dr. Ivan Panin's discoveries were made using the Greek manuscripts, not the English rendering of those manuscripts. Which is an even larger miracle. English is an extremely lazy language, quite a bit can be "fudged". The Greek is absurdly rigid and precise, verbs alone need to meet 5 different conditions to even be used in a sentence.

dilly1 sez:

"AND because of THAT, those three levels(which means nothing to someone who could careless) is the reason,the validity, that God had something to do with the bible's inception;;;; Not man???????????

Ivan is a mathematician and he discovered something created by "individual(s)" to be more transcending,, more awesome than Pavin's own intellect. Ivan's epiphany , his own "Shock" moment, basically made him stupid. He was so egotistical(and rightfully so,he was a genius) that he would rather say God was the holy influence than glorifying another human with equal smarts as himself created the coded "three levels" within your unified document.


Sir Francis Bacon ,probably the smartest human to date ,supervised and influenced the KJB. It wasn't God. You can't handle the obvious truth,, so like Pavin you turn to faith to mask the extreme vertigo when people like yourself collide with realism.


-the Bible is not a single unified document. There is nothing unified about it.... You want it to be unified, or you need it to be unified.

- you have no clue when anything was written in antiquity. The bible could have been created in the early 17th century and none of us would have never known. That's why faith is so dam important to christians.

-I am beyond honest and logical. You on the other hand believe blindly what you read . Your perspective is based on hope. The author(s) of the bible are human using human intellect. Nothing more. Codes do not make it God like. Why you would think that is a bit delusional.

Again you don't know if God or Gods or Goddesses deal and interact with humans using codes!!!! Lol

The only "absolute degree" is your faith is based on God concocted a coded message for all of us who have seen the true light..... What a crock of poopoo...lol


You see I can touch and feel wood,hay and stubble. I believe in those three things more than the jargon stipulated in your unified document.

PS- and by the way chicks love stubble."

Laz replies:

I sense more sputter than logic/reason in your post. I think I may have hit a nerve! I've had Occam's Razor swung at me on this site, so I am going give you a close shave with it. Tell me, which is the easier thing to believe, the simplest explanation, that God inspired every word of the various books of the Bible in a closely connected coding scheme, or that a group of men did it as a conspiracy [oh wow! a conspiracy!!] over the course of some 1500 years, and spread over several ancient countries? Before you answer, remember that no poet, scholar, or rune-master ever, anywhere, got much beyond the few levels of grammar, rhyme, vowel harmonization, and meter. Even if we add witty turns of phrase and hidden puns, etc, we get nowhere near the complexity of the Biblical text in the original languages. I challenge you to explain it without God.

BTW, my faith follows irrefutable facts, not the other way around.

BTW, not all chicks like stubble.

More dilly1 (in quotes) and Laz (in italics):

"Sir Francis Bacon ,probably the smartest human to date ,supervised and influenced the KJB."
Prove it! This sort of thing is controversial, not an established FACT.

"-the Bible is not a single unified document. There is nothing unified about it.... You want it to be unified, or you need it to be unified."
But it is a single, unified document, and you want it to be dis-unified, or you need it to be dis-unified.

"- you have no clue when anything was written in antiquity. The bible could have been created in the early 17th century and none of us would have never known. That's why faith is so dam important to christians."
Actually, I have lots of clues. The historicity of the Bible is now well established. Early 17th century? No way, dude! We would know. Did you ever hear of the Dead Sea Scrolls?

"-I am beyond honest and logical. You on the other hand believe blindly what you read ."
Tell me please, what is beyond "honest and logical"? Faith, I think. Further, how do you know that I believe what I read blindly? It always boils down to what authors we are willing to accept and believe. Besides, your accusation is a T&C violation, I believe (but not blindly).

"Again you don't know if God or Gods or Goddesses deal and interact with humans using codes!!!! Lol"
Leaving out the Gods/Goddesses, yes, I do. The subtext, the codes, verify the text, the Word of God.

"What a crock of poopoo"
Yeah, that sounds like a logical, well reasoned conslusion, alright!

Laz

Originally posted by Iason321

Originally posted by dilly1

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
dilly1 sez:

"...anyone who tries to discuss using faith as proof is doing an injustice to us all for the sake of a debate. WE are here to debate right?? I know I am. Which equally goes for science or alchemy or those ridiculous UFO's... There must be undeniable proof... Which christians do not and will never have."

Laz replies:

Pardon me...but there is undeniable proof, which this Christian does have. I mentioned in my post above the mathematical codes discovered by Ivan Panin. The Hebrew alphabet has three levels of meaning, the phonetic level, the pictographic level, and the numerical level, in which each Hebrew letter is used as a number, since Hebrew, like Greek or Latin, had no separate set of numerals. Greek has two, maybe three - I'm not sure if Greek has the pictographic level. With me so far? If we look at the Biblical text as a string of numbers, then extremely complex patterns and sets of numbers emerge, most of them factorable by seven. In fairly short texts, at least three dozen levels of coding can be demonstrated. Anyone who has written verse with grammatical meaning, a rhyme scheme, and a regular "beat" can well understand how difficult this really is. A classic Latin poet of antiquity said a good day was two lines, and that took in only THREE levels of coding. What I am describing is far beyond human ability. The coding is coherent, consistent, and runs all the way from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21.

This proves certain things with mathematical certainty:

The Bible is a single, unified document - there is very, very little wriggle room for human intervention.

Each book was written virtually at the same time - if the Author lives outside space/time, we would expect this.

The Author is of more than human intelligence - there is just no getting around this, if you're honest.

The original wording can be restored with the use of the codes, so God's Words are NOT lost.

Given all that, what God tells us in the Bible is true to an absolute degree, based on the solid rock of non- falsifiable mathematical analysis.

The denials of skeptics and scoffers will not hold up. They are wood, hay, and stubble!

AND because of THAT, those three levels(which means nothing to someone who could careless) is the reason,the validity, that God had something to do with the bible's inception;;;; Not man???????????

Ivan is a mathematician and he discovered something created by "individual(s)" to be more transcending,, more awesome than Pavin's own intellect. Ivan's epiphany , his own "Shock" moment, basically made him stupid. He was so egotistical(and rightfully so,he was a genius) that he would rather say God was the holy influence than glorifying another human with equal smarts as himself created the coded "three levels" within your unified document.


Sir Francis Bacon ,probably the smartest human to date ,supervised and influenced the KJB. It wasn't God. You can't handle the obvious truth,, so like Pavin you turn to faith to mask the extreme vertigo when people like yourself collide with realism.


-the Bible is not a single unified document. There is nothing unified about it.... You want it to be unified, or you need it to be unified.

- you have no clue when anything was written in antiquity. The bible could have been created in the early 17th century and none of us would have never known. That's why faith is so dam important to christians.

-I am beyond honest and logical. You on the other hand believe blindly what you read . Your perspective is based on hope. The author(s) of the bible are human using human intellect. Nothing more. Codes do not make it God like. Why you would think that is a bit delusional.

Again you don't know if God or Gods or Goddesses deal and interact with humans using codes!!!! Lol

The only "absolute degree" is your faith is based on God concocted a coded message for all of us who have seen the true light..... What a crock of poopoo...lol


You see I can touch and feel wood,hay and stubble. I believe in those three things more than the jargon stipulated in your unified document.

PS- and by the way chicks love stubble.

You're "logic" that you use to come to the conclusions that Christianity is a crock of poopoo and that 9/11 was some kind of conspiracy, is not actually logic. Just personal, paranoid beliefs.

First of all sorry to burst your bubble. I have tendency to do that.

Second, I cannot talk about 911. Was before cant now. But I will say this : my signature is not a belief it a proven fact,,meaning common sense or logic ;A freakin fact ,,,that only someone with knowledge in construction would understand. Meaning :pedestrians would take offense to such a claim.

But enough of that I have said way too much .


Back to your delusional christian faith. Christians have no proof of christianity. You all are based on faith. Your foundation is based on faith. JUST LIKE people who believe stupid UFO's are connected to aliens or people believing in paranormal jargon is based on faith.


There is no proof.

Someone logical ,like myself , cannot believe in something that is solely based on hope ,on faith.

So please explain to me ,Mrs Emotional One, how and why you assume I am the one not being or not thinking logical.

Because honestly I find it a bit immature when I write over 500 characters on one post and you come skipping along "trying me" that I am not logical ....Based on,,,,?????,,,,,,on????,,,,still waiting,,???? Anything yet???,,,,, still waiting???


Oh that's right ,forgot,, I popped your bubble.

You really don't have jack ,just anger towards "logical-grounded-realist" old me. How convenient. How thoughtful of you. People like you literally make my day. Honestly. There is nothing more I enjoy than to read emotional plebeian's thin spherical film pop before my eyes.


I truly am sorry........

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by dilly1

 

He was so egotistical(and rightfully so,he was a genius) that he would rather say God was the holy influence than glorifying another human with equal smarts as himself created the coded "three levels" within your unified document.

But the Bible wasn't written by "another human", it was written by 40 of them over the span of thousands of years with most of them never meeting or talking to the other authors. (That eliminates the possibility of collusion) So if all the books carry the exact same coding structures under the text that should tell you that the real mastermind behind it wasn't the different human authors, they were men like you and I who merely held the writing utensils.

Even if Francis Bacon edited the KJB, (we're still awaiting proof of that claim), Dr. Ivan Panin's discoveries were made using the Greek manuscripts, not the English rendering of those manuscripts. Which is an even larger miracle. English is an extremely lazy language, quite a bit can be "fudged". The Greek is absurdly rigid and precise, verbs alone need to meet 5 different conditions to even be used in a sentence.

edit on 12-1-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

How do you know it was 40 of anything????? You don't .

How do you know Pavin used Greek or the Ebonics version of anything?? Because you read it on some of your evangelical sites or wikipedia???

And how do you know the Greek version is a written form from antiquity,and not from the dark ages????

You're right about the english language. Its was even worse until Bacon saved it, do to his creation of Shakespeare's works.

But you have no clue,nor does anyone on who did what with anything. Which I find that very amusing .

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
dilly1 sez:

"AND because of THAT, those three levels(which means nothing to someone who could careless) is the reason,the validity, that God had something to do with the bible's inception;;;; Not man???????????

Ivan is a mathematician and he discovered something created by "individual(s)" to be more transcending,, more awesome than Pavin's own intellect. Ivan's epiphany , his own "Shock" moment, basically made him stupid. He was so egotistical(and rightfully so,he was a genius) that he would rather say God was the holy influence than glorifying another human with equal smarts as himself created the coded "three levels" within your unified document.


Sir Francis Bacon ,probably the smartest human to date ,supervised and influenced the KJB. It wasn't God. You can't handle the obvious truth,, so like Pavin you turn to faith to mask the extreme vertigo when people like yourself collide with realism.


-the Bible is not a single unified document. There is nothing unified about it.... You want it to be unified, or you need it to be unified.

- you have no clue when anything was written in antiquity. The bible could have been created in the early 17th century and none of us would have never known. That's why faith is so dam important to christians.

-I am beyond honest and logical. You on the other hand believe blindly what you read . Your perspective is based on hope. The author(s) of the bible are human using human intellect. Nothing more. Codes do not make it God like. Why you would think that is a bit delusional.

Again you don't know if God or Gods or Goddesses deal and interact with humans using codes!!!! Lol

The only "absolute degree" is your faith is based on God concocted a coded message for all of us who have seen the true light..... What a crock of poopoo...lol


You see I can touch and feel wood,hay and stubble. I believe in those three things more than the jargon stipulated in your unified document.

PS- and by the way chicks love stubble."

Laz replies:

I sense more sputter than logic/reason in your post. I think I may have hit a nerve! I've had Occam's Razor swung at me on this site, so I am going give you a close shave with it. Tell me, which is the easier thing to believe, the simplest explanation, that God inspired every word of the various books of the Bible in a closely connected coding scheme, or that a group of men did it as a conspiracy [oh wow! a conspiracy!!] over the course of some 1500 years, and spread over several ancient countries? Before you answer, remember that no poet, scholar, or rune-master ever, anywhere, got much beyond the few levels of grammar, rhyme, vowel harmonization, and meter. Even if we add witty turns of phrase and hidden puns, etc, we get nowhere near the complexity of the Biblical text in the original languages. I challenge you to explain it without God.

BTW, my faith follows irrefutable facts, not the other way around.

BTW, not all chicks like stubble.

More dilly1 (in quotes) and Laz (in italics):

"Sir Francis Bacon ,probably the smartest human to date ,supervised and influenced the KJB."
Prove it! This sort of thing is controversial, not an established FACT.

"-the Bible is not a single unified document. There is nothing unified about it.... You want it to be unified, or you need it to be unified."
But it is a single, unified document, and you want it to be dis-unified, or you need it to be dis-unified.

"- you have no clue when anything was written in antiquity. The bible could have been created in the early 17th century and none of us would have never known. That's why faith is so dam important to christians."
Actually, I have lots of clues. The historicity of the Bible is now well established. Early 17th century? No way, dude! We would know. Did you ever hear of the Dead Sea Scrolls?

"-I am beyond honest and logical. You on the other hand believe blindly what you read ."
Tell me please, what is beyond "honest and logical"? Faith, I think. Further, how do you know that I believe what I read blindly? It always boils down to what authors we are willing to accept and believe. Besides, your accusation is a T&C violation, I believe (but not blindly).

"Again you don't know if God or Gods or Goddesses deal and interact with humans using codes!!!! Lol"
Leaving out the Gods/Goddesses, yes, I do. The subtext, the codes, verify the text, the Word of God.

"What a crock of poopoo"
Yeah, that sounds like a logical, well reasoned conslusion, alright!

Laz

The only nerve of mine irked is you not knowing how to quote.

But back to comedy central:

You say which? Mmmm,,let me see: god or man-made-anything let alone a book? Mmmmm???

I would say man or better said "the victor"

Why? Because there is no evidence god or alien or demons or goddesses or whatever imaginary thought can create something physical with a special lesson(s) behind it.

That's why!!!

How do you know no poet or scholar(you forgot historian and philosopher) are too stupid to write such a masterpiece(s)?? You don't.

And its original language is what? And I do you know it's the original language?? You don't

What facts!!!!

Stubble part is funny,,, there, you could be right,,lol

SFB(and his clan of authors) wrote all of Shakespeare's works. To me he is by far the most advance human ever(beyond his time). He made England to what it is today. Prove it you say? Seriously read other than what your bubble entails. Meaning explore outside your small world. Trust me not a single christian has read more than I . If they did they would drop christianity or islam.(Yes it sounds arrogant but its the truth)

No one knows for sure if the bible was written by 40 people or 1000 people. No one knows if it was all written not in different time but in the same time. We just don't. So none of us know if its either a unified document(which that sound really stupid,cause I thought the bible was a small library) or un-unified. We don't know Lazo !

Do you know anything about the dead sea scrolls(meaning first hand,not 2nd or 7th)? How old it is? And don't give me that carbon14 jargon. That's not accurate. Again we humans find crap ,read crap and believe crap. We just don't know so we use faith to fill in the blanks. Cause of laziness or is it LAZZiness?

TC violation??? Do I here a baby crying? I think you know the definition of both honest and logical. I hope you do. You are correct :it always boils down to which authors we want to believe. The difference is ,our "wants" are totally different. Your search is based on finding the truth in god. I am solely based on what is common sense; the logical point of view. And the logical POV is to learn all sides of every story ,not just one. --Not just researching one side over and over and over(christians and muslims do this).

You believe the codes are words of god. You do understand what "believe" means right?!

The "what a crock of poopoo" is I'm having fun. You know,,having a sense of humor.. Your telling me only logical people are robots? Come now Lazzy, there is no need to be so closed minded. Let it go, set yourself free. "It" meaning faith off course.


But I'm rooting for Tebow though. I hate Brady. He doesn't like stubbles.

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1
Especially, when I came to the part in Genesis where G-- said "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel".

Some where along your life God said to you "You will no longer use your parents name, but ThePublicEnemyNo1."

What is not to understand?

With Love,

Your Brother

I don't understand you....but then again, I'm not trying too

reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1


read some of his threads... perhaps that might change...

dilly1 sez:
"The only nerve of mine irked is you not knowing how to quote."

Laz replies:
I believe I quoted you properly,and it was a LOT more work than just mashing the "QUOTE" button. At least I can spell and punctuate properly, something sometimes lacking in your posts. Other than that, I think I am through with you, as we are not finding common ground. Go your way.

reply to post by dilly1

And how do you know the Greek version is a written form from antiquity,and not from the dark ages????

Have you ever bothered to compare the modern languages of any of their older variants? I can assure you, the english we speak now and write, was different from middle english which is closer to what the anglo-saxons spoke and wrote which is a variant of the nordic/germanic tribes whch they came from.

Compare Paleo-hebrew (the hebrew language of Christ's time) to modern hebrew, the two dialicts are strinkingly different. Modern hebrew was heavily based off of the european jews hybridized hebrew called Yiddish, which was what they spoke before and during WW2.

The greek language? Hasn't changed at all. What they spoke 2000 years ago is what they speak now, right down to the letters. The greek is a far more accurate rendition of the scriptures.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Can a modern Greek read New Testament Greek, then?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

The greek is a far more accurate rendition of the scriptures

Yes it is.....to a GREEK! But I happen to be one of those special people that speak English, and English only...and am proud of it

But in all honestly you Christians out there, including lonewolf19792000....when is the last time God ever used or honored a Greek New Testament?? Did Charles Finny lead all the people to Christ using a Nestles-Aland? What about Billy Sunday, D. L. Moody, Charles Spurgen, Roger Williams, or even the apostate Billy Graham?? Can any of you answer me, what Bible, in WHAT language did God bless in order for the above men to lead over 10 million souls to Christ?

Now think about it....would God only keep His PRESERVED words in Greek which less than 1% of the world's population can read.....or would He TRANSLATE it perfectly accurate into the number one used language in the world. English. And keep in mind English was not the most used language in the world in 1611 AD....but it became so shortly thereafter. Coincidence....?

So for the last time, you do not have to "run to the Greek or Hebrew" to have God's words! They are perfectly inspired and PRESERVED in English. Better Even as this thread shows. If you doubt me, look at Christ's words Himself when He said:

Mark 10:14-15
14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little CHILDREN to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Now can you imagine a little child having to learn ancient Hebrew and Greek in order to "come unto Him". Most Christians think this way. They are in error. YOU HAVE the WORDS of God in your lap if you have a King James Bible.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Can a modern Greek read New Testament Greek, then?

I dunno. They'd need to know Koine Greek.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Compare Paleo-hebrew (the hebrew language of Christ's time) to modern hebrew, the two dialicts are strinkingly different. Modern hebrew was heavily based off of the european jews hybridized hebrew called Yiddish, which was what they spoke before and during WW2.

Paleo-hebrew was a Canaanite language.
Aramaic was introduced by the Assyrians to the Canaan region, and was not Hebrew at all. The similarity between the two languages is the figures used in the alphabet, which replaced the Paleo-hebrew symbols used earlier by Hebrew.
Hebrew was not a spoken language in the time of Jesus, what was called "Hebrew" such as what is found in Acts, was really just a Judean way of pronouncing Aramaic, as opposed to such as a Babylonian way of pronouncing the Aramaic.

reply to post by KJV1611

Yes it is.....to a GREEK! But I happen to be one of those special people that speak English, and English only...and am proud of it

That's why we have Concordances and Lexicons my friend. But one cannot deny the complexity and richness of Greek and Hebrew. English is an extremely lazy language compared to both. Example, Greek has 5 different words for different types of affection one feels toward another, English lumps them all together with one word "love".

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Can a modern Greek read New Testament Greek, then?

Yes.
Especially if they are Christian and read the NT anyway.
What version of the Bible would you imagine them reading?
They would not be translating it into "modern" Greek, since there is no difference, other than Attic, which was old before the NT was written.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Bah! Please address the other issues brought in the post instead of the opening sarcastic remark I made to grab his attention. I have yet to see a good answer to the practical reasons for rejecting the greek and hebrew in place of the English.

I find it hysterical that fundamentalists cling to the King James bible like it's straight from Heaven, when in fact King James was a drunk gay man and the bible is missing seven books. Being a drunk; being a gay man; and screwing with the bible are supposed to be something fundamentalists hate ... and yet they cling to the King James bible because, subconciously, they think it's an in-your-face slap to the Catholic church or something.

reply to post by FlyersFan

They seem more to me like anti-fundamentalists, where instead of holding the Bible as inerrant, they worship a particular version. I was brought up as a fundamentalist and was up until very recently but we never believed the sort of unmitigated foolishness as I see coming from a couple posters on this forum.

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Bah!

Please address the other issues brought in the post instead of the opening sarcastic remark I made to grab his attention.

I have yet to see a good answer to the practical reasons for rejecting the greek and hebrew in place of the English.

English is great to learn about Christ, to be saved and to walk a great Christian life, but there are many nuances and rich flavor that can be left out when one also doesn't look at the Greek and Hebrew. They are much better, more precise languages. But yes, nothing essential is lost in the English of course.

reply to post by FlyersFan

I find it hysterical that fundamentalists cling to the King James bible like it's straight from Heaven,

Straw man. We sure don't, we "cling to" (lol) the KJB because it was made from the Received Text line of manuscripts that originated in Antioch, Syria. All modern versions rely on the translations of Wescott and Hort who had contempt for the Textus Receptus and favored the manuscripts from Alexandria, Egypt.

P.S. It has nothing to do with King James.