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5 Ridiculous Things You Probably Believe About Islam.

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posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 02:00 PM
reply to post by ALOSTSOUL

Y'all persistently insist hereon

that there's a more or less microscopic percentage of worldwide Islam that supports violence . . .

Then y'all whined that I more or less never posted any documentation.

Now you seem to be whining that I'm posting too much.

Y'all are a real trip. Sweetness personified, certainly.

I plan to continue posting evidence on the issues of the OP . . . documenting more solid research about Islam and the percentages of people in Islam who believe related assertions to the


I don't recall holding a gun to anyone's head insisting that they read my posts.

I can certainly understand y'all's disinclination to read proof that the assertion that only a tiny proportion of Muslims worldwide support violence is an absurd and inaccurate perspective.

We shall see how that cookie crumbles. The above quotes are already more than abundantly sufficient to PROVE THAT ASSERTION OFF THE WALL !WRONG! . . . not that I expect ANY of you to admit that.

If you wish to blame someone for such an abundance of proof being posted . . . check out your mirrors.

posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 02:04 PM
reply to post by BO XIAN

All you posted was:

1) Koran quotes...which aren't proof that Muslims are bad. If it were, Christians would be bad too, because there's HORRIBLE stuff in the bible too.

2) Opinion posts on blogs that cite ZERO reliable sources.

3) Polls that clearly show that the majority of Muslims aren't extremist terrorists.

In short, none of your posts support your claims

posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 02:05 PM
reply to post by MrXYZ

His own figures (the one you quoted clearly show that it isn't a majority that's extremist

Waffling on the criteria now?

Moving the goal posts as it better suits the evidence so far?

Unwilling to admit that y'all's earlier assertions that only a tiny percentage of Muslims worldwide support violence is simply !WRONG!???

What an unsurprise.

My posts are documenting that the earlier assertion that only a very tiny percentage of Muslims worldwide support violence at all . . . is simply GROSSLY UNTRUE.

Such posts are in support of one perspective on THE RIDICULOUS THINGS in Islam--related to the OP.

posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 02:07 PM
reply to post by ALOSTSOUL

I put it to you that for every story you post there are also ones like this:


1. The founding documents of Islam simply aren't authoritative regarding Islam, to you.

Impressive logic, there.

2. You seem to lack a very sophisticated understanding of surveys. Otherwise, comparing anecdotal narratives to solidly constructed surveys would not have been so absurdly asserted and posted.


edit on 9/1/2012 by BO XIAN because: quote parameter

posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 02:10 PM
reply to post by BO XIAN

It's only a TINY minority that actually commits violence. And supporting those actions isn't the same as being violent or evil. A majority of Americans were in favor of those wars at the start...even though they were started under false pretences. A majority of American also doesn't believe in evolution, which given that it's a proven theory is also insane...doesn't mean the majority of Americans is stupid.

posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 02:11 PM
reply to post by ALOSTSOUL

Evidently my plain English is insufficiently communicative to you. I don't know that I can make it any plainer.

I'll restate it here.

Y'all asserted rather fiercely that only a tiny minority of Muslims worldwide support violence.

I believe that's an ABSURDLY FALSE fantasy.

I'll continue posting EVIDENCE about such RIDICULOUS THINGS related to Islam until I find the source I was looking for; feel there's enough evidence posted regardless; run out of leads; decide to tend to other irons in the fire.

Y'all can waffle on the criteria; shuck and jive, slip and slide and run and hide about the facts all you wish.

The evidence will still be posted on the thread for those who wish to examine more solid facts and puzzle pieces instead of

wildly absurd rabbit fur wrapped fantasies about Islam.

posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 02:28 PM
reply to post by BO XIAN

I don't think you understand. Apart from the also anecdotal evident on honor killings, all you have posted are figures that show Muslims are willing to defend there faith, something that all the religious would do. Its like asking a nationlist whether they would fight for there country or not. Everything you have posted has actively disproved your theory on 'all muslims being extremist'.

It is not "slipping and sliding" it is there in plain sight within the evidence you have posted.

edit on 9-1-2012 by ALOSTSOUL because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 02:35 PM
reply to post by MrXYZ

. . .
also mostly laughable blog posts on sites where everyone and his dog can voice their OPINION
. . .

Ahhhhhhhh given your RELIGIOUS scrupulousness regarding statistics . . . evidently you have ran statistics on my links.

PLEASE show us the stats! I'd love to see them.

posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 02:40 PM
reply to post by ALOSTSOUL

IIRC . . . the exchange began with assertions that only a tiny fraction of Muslims worldwide supported violence.

I cited a world class Muslim expert from a C2C show several years ago--who's name I can't remember--who asserted that 13 high ranking Muslims insisted--each individually--that it was 70%

y'all seemed incredulously outraged at the very idea and derided me for more or less never offering any significant evidence or sources for my convictions that it was far MORE THAN a tiny fraction of Muslims who supported violence.

If y'all can't keep up with the logic and the issues, I doubt the dialogue can be very meaningful or authentic.

I think it is a RIDICULOUS thing about ISLAM that it exhorts the faithful to violence throughout the founding documents . . . yet non-Muslims are so oblivious to such memes and to the degree to which Muslims around the world support such principles, dynamics, values.

The statistics I've posted document that far more than 1-2% of Muslims around the world support violence.


I'm not surprised there's no admission of that.

posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 02:43 PM
reply to post by MrXYZ

I was very very clear about the criteria from the Muslim expert on C2C I'll elaborate slightly below:


--participated in violence personally
--funded violence (or provided other material and/or children to be blown up in support of violence)
--provided safe-houses for the violent
--supported violence in the body politic and media

That's the criteria.

You can slip and slide around that all you wish but that's what I started with.

posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 02:52 PM
reply to post by BO XIAN

cited a world class Muslim expert from a C2C show several years ago--who's name I can't remember--who asserted that 13 high ranking Muslims insisted--each individually--that it was 70%

y'all seemed incredulously outraged at the very idea and derided me for more or less never offering any significant evidence or sources for my convictions that it was far MORE THAN a tiny fraction of Muslims who supported violence.

Not outraged, skeptical. And you still haven't cited a source that states that 70% of Muslims support violence. You have provide stats on there willness to defend Islam against "threatening" non believers. You have provide stats for the support of OBL which was much lower then expected.

In essence none of your questionable sources back up your claim.

You can see from previous posts that if I thought I was wrong I would admit it.


posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 02:54 PM
reply to post by ALOSTSOUL

Cleric preaches that violence is part of Islam

By Duncan Gardham

12:01AM BST 01 May 2007

The mentor

At a scout hut on forestry land in Crawley, West Sussex, Omar Bakri Mohammed encouraged his small band of followers to turn their ideological zeal to violence, training them in boxing and urging them on.

It was at one such meeting that Omar Khyam, the leader of the fertiliser plotters, first came into contact with radical Islam as an impressionable teenager.
. . .
In documents seen by The Daily Telegraph, al-Muhajiroun claimed: "Terrorism is a part of Islam" and "Allah made it obligatory to prepare and to terrify the enemy of Allah".

The article advised: "The kuffar of USA and UK are without doubt our enemy.There is no such thing as an innocent kafir, innocence is only applicable for the Muslims. Not only is it obligatory to fight them, it is haram [forbidden] to feel sorry for them."

BTW, RE BLOGS . . . which of the following assertions on that blog are UNTRUE?

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

Other examples: Algeria is wracked by bitter fighting between Islamic Fundamentalists and the military. Death toll, 100,000 over a ten year period! Nigeria is in the midst of a war in which Muslims are murdering Christians and burning down their churches. Moslems against Christians. It doesn't take much to trigger an angry mob of Muslims. The Miss Universe Pageant was help there at the end of 2002. Muslim opposition to the pageant boiled over after a local journalist wrote that the prophet Mohammed would have approved of the contest and might even have wanted to marry one of the contestants. The ensuing riots in Kaduna left 220 dead and 400 wounded. In Kenya the Islamic Party has declared Holy War on the government. In Turkey the secular Muslim government is being challenged by the militant Refah Islamic Party. A civil war rages in the Sudan between Muslims in the north against the Christians in the south. Sudan's militant Muslim regime is slaughtering Christians who refuse to convert to Islam. In recent years, more than two million Sudanese have been killed out of a population of 35 million as its government used bombings and famine in its war on its own people. Read this shocking June 2, 2004 World Net Daily article.

A war also raged between Muslim Eritrea and Christian Ethiopia. The result of fighting between Muslim Azerbaijans and Christian Armenians was 35,000 casualties. Armenia was shrunk because of territory "gained" by the "breeding-with-a- vengeance" Muslims population. Serbian Moslems looted Christian treasures in the process of destroying 107 churches and monasteries, both ancient and modern. In the former Soviet Union, breakaway Muslim republics (and their 55 million Muslims)... Chechnya (click HERE), Daghestan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan... have sparked insurrection against Orthodox Russian regimes and by the year 2050, Russia will be forced out of Central Asia by Islamic invaders from without AND within (Muslims have a birth rate 5 times that of non-Muslim Russians). The Great Russian Bear will be driven into permanent hibernation!

Will non-Islamic nations be forced to build a "Giant Wall" as China did to keep out the Islamicized Monguls? Will the electronically-enhanced, concrete wall the Israeli I.D.F. recently erected keep out the Arab-Palestinian terrorists?

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

Ten thousand Lebanese Christians were massacred in 1860s, while over 100,000 were killed in the Lebanese civil war of 1975-1990. Thousands of women were raped. That war was provoked by Yasser Arafat's PLO. Damour was once a thriving Christian Lebanese village until 500 (primarily young boys) were massacred and its population was expelled. This sort of violence and intolerance symbolizes treatment of Christians by Muslims in the Middle East. And, instead of an international arrest warrant Arafat received a Nobel Peace Prize!

Even non-Muslim Christians under Palestinian-controlled areas ["West Bank" and Gaza] are not faring so well. Bethlehem was 70 percent Christian in the 1970s. Today it is close to 70 percent Muslim. The growing Islamization of Palestinian society makes Christians very uncomfortable. The size of the Christian Arab community in the West Bank may have fallen as low as 10,000, a drop of 50 percent since the mid-1990s.

Most blogs are a mixture of formality and informality; strict sourcing and writing and loose sourcing and writing. Some are excellent sources of fact and some are horrible sources of fact.

Those insisting that Islam is peaceful tend to be the latter.

posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 02:55 PM
reply to post by Kafternin

What is your point? Again, the poll clearly shows that in many muslim countries, the mainstream opinion among the muslims is extremist. The numbers are here for you to see:

posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 03:07 PM
reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


Islam: Why the Violence?

This article follows History and Origins: The Life of Muhammad.

See also The Qur'an: Verses of Violence

The only thing more shocking than the ridiculous level of violence coming out of the Islamic world is the genuine indifference shown by most of those Muslims who are not directly involved. . . . “Where’s the outrage?” as Americans had trouble understanding why Muslims did not act as people of other religions would have in the wake of a horrific mass murder committed in the name of their faith.

The simple fact is that Islam is not like other religions. The roots of the faith, the history, and the teachings from basic texts compel both the violence and the broad indifference that sustains it. Despite the drive that Westerners have to believe that other people are just like them, and that other religions are just like theirs, it is anti-intellectual to ignore the stark evidence that demands otherwise. [color emphases always added in my posts]

Abu Ala Maududi, the founder of Jamaat-e-Islami, puts it this way in his book, Jihad in Islam:

"Islam is not a normal religion like the other religions in the world, and Muslim nations are not like normal nations. Muslim nations are very special because they have a command from Allah to rule the entire world and to be over every nation in the world. Islam is a revolutionary faith that comes to destroy any government made by man. Islam doesn't look for a nation to be in better condition than another nation. Islam doesn't care about land or who owns the land. The goal of Islam is to rule the entire world and submit all of mankind to the faith of Islam. Any nation or power in this world that tries to get in the way of that goal Islam will fight and destroy. In order for Islam to fulfill that goal, Islam can use every power available every way it can be used to bring worldwide revolution. This is jihad."

This truth is so disturbing to some non-Muslims that they are willing to do anything they can to deny it. They latch on to whatever reflects the faintest glimmer of their own value system in Islam, usually by ignoring the teaching and listening exclusively to those who have a vested interest in the advancement of Islam, yet are sophisticated enough to disguise its true nature of the religion with a palatable facade.

Clever “fifth column” groups, such as the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), have learned that multiculturalists can be easily manipulated with tactical language that includes broad, but ultimately meaningless, “condemnations against terror” and periodic declarations that “innocents” are not legitimate targets for Jihadis.

Although fooling some into believing what they want to believe, astute observers recognize that these groups almost never define their key terms, such as “terror attacks” and “innocents,” and that a tiny minority of attacks are specifically denounced. CAIR, for example, only acknowledged eighteen acts of terror in the four years following 9/11 – less than 1/2 of 1% of the actual number of documented attacks.

So what explains the violence and the level of comfort that many Muslims have with those who kill in the name of Allah?

Given that Islam’s founder was a military leader who personally conducted terror attacks on caravans, led offensive battles against communities in order to steal and subjugate, who took slaves, broke truces, supervised the execution of captives, advocated the murder of Jews, and even advised his warriors on raping women captured in battle, the wonder is that there isn’t more violence than we see today.

. . .

. . .

posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 03:23 PM
reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


This raises, again, that chestnut of a question: how many Muslims are Islamists, that is, are Muslims who seek to apply the Shari'a (Islamic law) in its entirety so as to make the umma strong? I proffered the estimate of 10 to 15 percent days after September 11, 2001; this figure has been questioned [Sept. 18, 2008 update: For example, the Islamist organization MPAC deems this number "utterly unsubstantiated" and goes on to call me names; typical of MPAC research, it did not bother to read this weblog]; but it also has been quite widely accepted and repeated.

Danish study: The Capacent Institute found that 18 percent of Muslims in Denmark either "agree" or "completely agree" that "Sharia law should be integrated into Danish law." ("Denmark: 18% of Muslims want to see Sharia law implemented," Islam in Europe Blog, April 29, 2009)

Indonesian poll 2008: A survey of 8,000 Indonesians by Roy Morgan Research, an Australian company, finds that 52 per cent favor some form of Islamic legal code (such as religious arbitration in family disputes), although only 40 percent favor a hadd punishment such as cutting the hands of thieves. Ira Soekirman of Roy Morgan Research points out that "A lot of people think the idea is very good, but when you start talking of every day implications, the number dropped." (Thomas Bell, "Indonesia backs sharia law, poll shows," The Daily Telegraph, June 24, 2008)

John O'Sullivan: "Estimates of the number of (generally young male) Muslims who are actively sympathetic to Islamism are inevitably … speculative. The usual guess is that 15 percent of the Muslim population is sympathetic to Islamism and a much smaller percentage, say 4 percent, actively so." ("The Islamic Republic of Holland," National Review, July 18, 2005)

Hisham Kabbani, head of Islamic Supreme Council of America: 5 to 10 percent of American Muslims are extremists. (Steven Vincent, "Where Are the Moderate Muslims?" The American Enterprise, April/May 2005, p. 27).

Kamal Nawash, head, Free Muslims Against Terrorism: "as many as 50 percent of Muslims around the world support the goals of the extremists." ("O'Reilly Factor," Fox News Channel, Aug. 5, 2004)

Daniel Yankelovich, pollster: At one extreme of Muslim society "are the hate-America Islamist fundamentalists, who are the most militant and totalitarian. The magnitude and influence of this group varies enormously. For example, in Indonesia this group has doubled, tripled, or quadrupled over the last few years. I would estimate that this group averages about 10% of all Muslims, with enormous variation from one Muslim country to another and particular strength in Arab nations." ("Cutting the Lifeline of Terror: What's Next After Iraq?" July 14, 2004, p. 20) (May 17, 2005)

The above document that greatly more than 1-2% of Muslims support violence to some significant degree.

posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 03:35 PM
reply to post by ALOSTSOUL

This doc discusses the RIDICULOUS violence issue more directly . . .

He begins by defining the fairly strictly as 'terrorists.' That's a lot different from the definition the scholar I cited initially used as I've outlined.

However . . . he asserts that most terrorists are men. Half Muslims are men. The age bracket of most terrorists comprise about half the men or 25% of the whole.

However, interestingly . . . the 70% number came up in the following:

The most logical way to determine the percentage of Muslims who are salafi/fundamentalists - a precondition to jihad - is to consider the most recent elections in Islamic countries. For example, the fundamentalist Islamic group HAMAS received 65% of the popular vote in "Palestine." The somewhat secular Fatah, at least by comparison to HAMAS, won only 30% of the votes.
While he was not popularly elected, Turkey's president, Ahmet Necdet Sezar, is a fundamentalist Muslim. Turkey's parliament, which selected him by a 70% majority, is formed as a result of a popular mandate and it is predominately composed of fundamentalist Muslims. Turkey's Prime Minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, is the nation's most popular leader. He is a convicted felon who believes: "Mosques are our barracks, domes are our helmets, minarets our bayonets, and believers our soldiers."
He won a landslide victory in 2002 - and Turkey is considered to be the most moderate Islamic state.

The newly elected fundamentalist Islamic nutcase ruling Iran, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, earned 62% of the popular vote. The most moderate Islamic challenger garnered less than twenty percent support. The notion that the majority of Iranians are hostile to the Shia mullahs, and are poised for a revolution, is a myth
In Lebanon, politicians got all excited when 50,000 people marched in support of democracy. The following week when 500,000 people protested in support of Islam/Submission, the percentage of fundamentalist Muslims became clear.
Fundamentalist Islamic candidates in the most recent Iraqi elections, those individuals who belonged to clerical parties like the Islamic Revolution in Iraq founded by Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani, won 65% of the seats in the new parliament.


. . . Polls taken in Pakistan, where bin Laden is being harbored, reveal that 70% of Pakistanis view the world's most famous Islamic terrorist very favorably. In fact, Osama has become the most popular name for boys in the region. . . .

If the 60% response levels derived from polling data is an accurate reflection of the current state of Islam, then sex and age criteria further reduce Islamic terrorist candidates down to a maximum of one in every seven Muslims - 25% of 60%. That means that no more than 15% of the total Islamic population of 1.2 to 1.5 billion people has the potential to be a terrorist should the opportunity arise. That equates to a minimum of 180 million potential jihadists and a maximum of 225 million.
But when it comes to actual jihadists, to those who have or will commit an act of terrorism in Allah's name, my research suggests that they represent no more than one in one hundred of the 180 million young fundamentalist Muslim men prepared mentally, morally, and spiritually to be terrorists. That means that there are 1.8 million actual Islamic jihadists on the planet today - a number which could jump one hundred fold almost instantaneously should the opportunity arise.

Before you get a warm and cozy feeling, thinking that only 60% of Muslims are sufficiently indoctrinated in fundamentalist Islam to be a terrorist should the opportunity arrise, and that only 25% of those Muslims are the appropriate age and sex to actually engage in jihad, let's consider some recent historical events. In 1917, less than 3% of Russians were Communists. Yet since that 3% was sufficiently corrupted by an immoral and ruthless religion (Socialist Secular Humanism), they quickly came to oppress the entire nation - murdering 30 million Russians in the process. In 1924, less than 3% of Germans were Nazis. And yet since that 3% was sufficiently corrupted by Hitler's "People's Religion" as it was immorally and ruthlessly laid out in Mein Kampf, that 3% came to oppress the entire nation and led the world into a war that killed 50 million people.
Also keep in mind that while only 15% of Muslims are potential jihadists today, that percentage is growing rapidly. Thanks to OPEC funding and clerical indoctrination, the Islamic world is becoming increasingly fundamentalist. In twenty years most Muslims could be terrorists - and probably will be.


posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 04:08 PM
There is a huge growing Mahdist movement throughout the middle east, being fermented by Iran chiefly - they are imminently awaiting his return, even to the point of 'hastening' it by 'drenching the world in blood'.

The deliberate de-stabilisation of Arab dictators, supposedly in the interests of 'democracy is leading to a resurgent Islamicism all across the middle east and the emergence of a new Caliphate.
Point is, when the call to an end-times jihad is made, and there is a credible 'Mahdi' produced - the call will be utterly irresistible for any true believer, and once hostilities begin in earnest, even the most reluctant moderate Muslims will be compelled by group dynamics to also get involved.

Europe and the US have systematical, been culturally and financialy gutted, by the progressive elites, supposedly to facilitate a NWO end-run around national and cultural identity.

The Muslims have sensed the weakness, and are smelling the blood - they believe this is their time - it is going to be like ARMAGEDDON - and we have been led to it like sheep to a slaughterhouse!

posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 06:06 PM
reply to post by JohhnyBGood

I will admit to not know much about this Mahdist movement but to me it sounds like the second coming of Jesus.


posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 06:22 PM
reply to post by ALOSTSOUL

he recent exposure by CBN News of an Iranian propaganda film has caused friction within the Iranian regime. According to the video, titled "The Coming Is Near," the current unrest in the Middle East is a divine signal that Iran will soon help usher in the end of days and the return of their messiah, also known as the Twelfth Imam or Mahdi.

The video labels Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei as the mythical figure who will pave the way for the Mahdi's return. It was never intended to be seen by a Western audience and now officials within the Iranian regime are in damage control mode. Iranian state media reports say the producer of the film was arrested after revealing that Khamenei and Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had approved the film.

In addition, some Iranian observers say the recent firing of Ahmadinejad's chief of staff came after he was linked to the film's production. "Those opposing Ahmadenijad are using this to attack him.

And then other radicals are also saying that 'Now, our ideology has been seen by the West and it's embarrassing the Islamic Republic,'" said Reza Kahlili, a former member of Iran's Revolutionary Guards Corps who provided the propaganda film to CBN News.

"Shia Muslims believe this Islamic messiah will come at the End of Days to destroy Judeo-Christian civilization as we have known it, force infidels to convert or be executed, and will set up a one-world Islamic government known as the 'caliphate.'

Belief in the Mahdi is not confined to Shia's - historically most Mahdist movements have been Sunni

posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 07:40 PM
reply to post by MrXYZ

1) Koran quotes...which aren't proof that Muslims are bad. If it were, Christians would be bad too, because there's HORRIBLE stuff in the bible too.


1. Who said my goal was to demonstrate that all Muslims were bad? Not my goal. My goal is to alert those with eyes to see and ears to hear that a far greater number than 1 or 2% of Muslims support violence against NonMuslims. My links support that.

2) Opinion posts on blogs that cite ZERO reliable sources.


There's a significant proportion of reliable sources on most of those blogs. Evidently you haven't scoped a significant percentage of such sources out very reliably.

3) Polls that clearly show that the majority of Muslims aren't extremist terrorists.

1. Depends on one's definition.

2. Also depends on how the polls were conducted with what population.

3. Depends on the degree of religiosity of what percentage of the population.

4. HOWEVER, THAT WASN'T NECESSARILY MY CONTENTION. I've never said that a majority of Muslims are "EXTREMIST TERRORISTS."

5. I cited a world class expert on Islam assert that 13 of his high ranking Muslim sources asserted that 70% of all Muslims supported violence against nonMuslims/violent Jihad against nonMuslims by

A) participating directly in such;
B) funding such; providing other material goods for such and/or children to be blown up for such;
C) providing safe houses for such;
D) Defending in the body politic (their social networks etc) and in the media such;


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