6 Million Jews vs 30 Million Russians Killed During World War 2

Originally posted by SpaceJockey1
Did you know that there have been more babies ABORTED in the last 50 years, than ALL those war deaths COMBINED.

Food for thought...

Well if u put it that way,than u must know that each time people have sex they kill millions of spermies that are potentially babies/humans.... In that case we all are mass morderers.

Originally posted by SpaceJockey1
Did you know that there have been more babies ABORTED in the last 50 years, than ALL those war deaths COMBINED.

Food for thought...

And what of the women killed in childbirth or due to complications from pregnancy due to restricted or no access to contraceptives? Childbirth is still the number one killer of women in third world countries, and far surpasses the number of abortions in deaths. Or the deaths of children due to disease or famine caused by poverty and overpopulation. And the complications from childbirth such as uterine fistulas or prolapses that regulate women to outcasts in their own society, and who are often abandoned by their husbands and families. Don't forget thousands upon thousands of women killed attempting to have an abortion in countries that don't allow for official and safe access to them.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by blocula


....Yes, and I'm sure there was probably more Japanese civilians killed when we dropped the bomb on them, than were the Jews in the Holocaust.....All of that happened because of war. .I'm not sure I'm getting your point here, except that it's a fairly lame attempt to somehow lessen the importance of the Jewish Holocaust. If you don't understand why it's important, let me explain it to you...6 million Jews were killed for no other reason than that they were considered 'inferior' by the Nazi's...they weren't killed by war...they were exterminated for reasons of simply being born in the first place. That's why it's important, and that's why it's remembered....

The figures you are talking about are not directly a lie, but a manipulation of the truth.

Germans arrested people in Germany, and put a yellow star on them to mark them as Jews. But what you aren't told, is that they weren't jews ... the mark of a Jew was put on them, because they were considered "scum". The name "jew" was in history not used to talk about the jewish people, but had a meaning ... so the people they arrested, were not jewish as such. But they were those, that the German state, considered "bad". Foreign workers, gays, people who were not active in society, people with social problems, mental problems and others who were not active, or had voiced their "opposition" to the regime.

The mark of jew, did not mean they were jewish per say, many were, but that is not what it truly meant ... this part, is the distortion of history. And because of this distortion, people like Dick Cheney and other Neo-Cons, can wrap themselves in a "veil" of being jewish, and get away with mass murder, torture and any crime they want.

The jewish community, takes advantage of the position, of course. They have been istorically labelled "bad", and mistreated ... that they take advantage, to improve their future, is only normal. But a lot of people in the world, are forgotten, because nobody looks at anything else ... except the jewish relation, and not really "who" were killed. The Krups weren't murdered, the ogliarch wasn't killed. And a lot of other people, take advantage of the historical distortion, to profit on it.

Those who were targetted, were those were considered people who "leached" on society. Unemployed, the poor, the helpless ... the people, the "Great Roman State", didn't have any use for. And these people, can not, nor can ever ... by labelled by religion, or groupped by any name. And it is wrong, to only identify jews as the victims of war ... the Chinese were also the victims of WWII. A lot of people of Europe, were the victims of war ... and never have been compensated. Not merely the Russians.

And when it comes down to the Russians, there is even a greater Disambiguety involved ...

From what I have read from various sources, 'Uncle Joe' had 20 million Russians murdered, The allies allowed 1.5 million west Germans to stave after the war, of all the Axis troops captured by the Russians, only 8 percent made it back home, lord knows how many Chinese died, especially during the rape of Shanghai. Polpot (Khemer rouge) is said to have murdered a million, the list is endless.

Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1

Originally posted by Skyfloating
And there you go making yet another thread about Jews.

Ive tried making threads about genocides in Sudan, Rwanda, Africa, Tibet, but they dont go anywhere. All people seem to care about is threads about jews/zionists.

I am right there with you....what gives? Where's the turning point, when do we say enough is enough of this type of speech? Furthermore, how does this contribute to the thinking minds of ATSer's?

I can only wonder

All life is equally important, and all genocide (or plain old murder) is reprehensible. These need to be recorded, and taught to help teach the young that this is quite capable of happening, and needs to be prevented. Much of the modern genocide awareness movement was created by the Allies as a result of the Holocaust, with 'Never Again!' being the hoped result. Unfortunately due to political and moral cowardice it has happened again, and again, and again. This makes the message all the more important.

What makes the Holocaust unique is the history of previous Jewish persecution, the top down government involvement, the resources put towards achieving their goal (even at the cost of military readiness), and the numbers/percentage of dead. Countries such as the Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Belarus, and others went from sizable and historic Jewish populations to no Jewish populations over the course of only a few years. There would be no Zionism without persecution. There really hasn't been a genocide before or since that compares in scale: resources used, countries taken over, industrialization of killing, totality of mindset, resulting percentages, etc.

I agree that it is terrible that people are not as moved by tragedies in other countries, and I think that is a consequence both of the ubiquity of warfare, the saturation of 'war porn' and other imagery solely for the gratuitousness of content, and cognitive dissonance you develop towards people who are different. You have to bridge these differences to truly involve people. That's one of the reasons I love that Save The Congo made the short film Unwatchable. It's a horrifying, but necessary short film that takes the actual story of the ordeal a Congolese woman and her family went through (and actually depicted it less graphically than what really happened), and sets it in England. I like to pride myself on my geopolitical awareness, but it's so easy to numb yourself to the constant warfare and horror that seem normal in places like Africa. So a film that takes the 'foreign' aspect away, and forces you to imagine it occurring to a family like yours in a place familiar to you is invaluable.

The film is on this site. It will not take you straight to the film, and there are several other informative clips that do not attempt to portray anything. If you do want to watch the film, it's very graphic and not appropriate for children or those who have experienced similar trauma.
www.unwatchable.cc...

Originally posted by bjarneorn
The figures you are talking about are not directly a lie, but a manipulation of the truth.

Germans arrested people in Germany, and put a yellow star on them to mark them as Jews. But what you aren't told, is that they weren't jews ... the mark of a Jew was put on them, because they were considered "scum". The name "jew" was in history not used to talk about the jewish people, but had a meaning ... so the people they arrested, were not jewish as such. But they were those, that the German state, considered "bad". Foreign workers, gays, people who were not active in society, people with social problems, mental problems and others who were not active, or had voiced their "opposition" to the regime.

The mark of jew, did not mean they were jewish per say, many were, but that is not what it truly meant ... this part, is the distortion of history. And because of this distortion, people like Dick Cheney and other Neo-Cons, can wrap themselves in a "veil" of being jewish, and get away with mass murder, torture and any crime they want.

The jewish community, takes advantage of the position, of course. They have been istorically labelled "bad", and mistreated ... that they take advantage, to improve their future, is only normal. But a lot of people in the world, are forgotten, because nobody looks at anything else ... except the jewish relation, and not really "who" were killed. The Krups weren't murdered, the ogliarch wasn't killed. And a lot of other people, take advantage of the historical distortion, to profit on it.

Those who were targetted, were those were considered people who "leached" on society. Unemployed, the poor, the helpless ... the people, the "Great Roman State", didn't have any use for. And these people, can not, nor can ever ... by labelled by religion, or groupped by any name. And it is wrong, to only identify jews as the victims of war ... the Chinese were also the victims of WWII. A lot of people of Europe, were the victims of war ... and never have been compensated. Not merely the Russians.

And when it comes down to the Russians, there is even a greater Disambiguety involved ...

edit on 9/1/2012 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)

Please present some proof. It is well known that the Third Reich persecuted and murdered people who weren't Jews, but they did not all receive a yellow star and so were not counted as Jews either numerically or socially. Depending on how they were viewed by the Third Reich determined their treatment, and chances of survival. Soviet prisoners of war were almost as likely to die as Jews, while American or British prisoners of war and German criminals had significantly better odds.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by lampsalot


I already included those who were "partially" Jewish.......the number of all combined was approximately 4 million however now that the German vaults of the paperwork from the death camps are open, the number is less than that. No one knows exactly how many Jews were exterminated outside the camps.

If we were to revise modern history, all history of man would have to be revised. Nothing has changed much and nothing has been learned; man is still as barbaric today as he was in WW1/WW2 as he was 1000 or even 5000 years ago.

reply to post by blocula


Big difference is that the Nazis decreed to exterminate the Jewish race therefore a holocaust but with the Russians, they never did that, it was a war and an invasion of their sovereign territory. i will also add that on a percentage basis Jewish deaths were far higher, at the time there were more than 170milion Russians and and c.10.5million Jews.

I will also add that the Russian loss of life is the brave price paid for defending your country and your home whereas all Jews within Nazi control were forced into ghettos and sentenced to death camps. Countries under Nazi control had Jewish populations wiped out between 70 and 90%.

To answer your question The National Museum of the History of the Great Patriotic War (of 1941-1945) is a very fitting tribute to the massive loss of life incurred in defending their country.

The only people that can compare are Roma Gypsies who with an unconfirmed 90% of its people decimated

reply to post by satron


we are all obviously holocaust victims because we cant seem to get past it Im a victim of the holocaust because people in our day and age still play the entitlement game and yes I am really talking about the sympethetic ones. It was a horrible time in history in which we are damned to repeat because all people hate each other all people kill and no one knows why. That being what it is instead of being pissy about it all why not give thumbs up to the ones that didnt let a good tragedy go to waste and maybe we can leave those busted ass pieces on the floor and move the eff on.

The Posen speeches were two secret speeches made by Reichsfuhrer-SS Heinrich Himmler on October 4 and 6, 1943 in the town hall of Posen,in Nazi occupied Poland...

A excerpt from one of Heinrich Himmlers Posen Speeches >

"Whether nations live in prosperity or starve to death interests me only so far as we need them as slaves for our culture,otherwise,it is of no interest to me. Whether 10,000 Russian females fall down from exhaustion while digging an antitank ditch interests me only insofar as the anti-tank ditch for Germany is finished"

reply to post by RestlessNRG


I think you'll find the largest number of Jews extermined of any one European nation were German Jews, then the Polish Jews.

If you look at the Jewish population statistics of all of Europe and compare to those who survived will give you a closer number. Of those who survived, then you have to deduct the number who drowned in refugee boats, Ben Gurion sunk 3 ships that I know of as a slap in the face to the British Govt. Other ships sunk by the treacherous oceans. Most ships made it to "Palestine" however keep in mind many European Jews were already making their way to "Palestine" just before, during and immediately after WW1 while they were still on the population rolls of Europe during WW2 and after.

6 million Jews you say? How can you tell by looking at them if they are Jews?

I have a scenario for all. Ive used this on numerous occasions to prove a point. I am in U.S.A. Southerm state of N.C. The point I'm trying to make is. YOU CAN"T SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT ISRAEL & THE JEWS.

Lets say I own a business, my business is in the downtown area of anytown USA. Let's say I take a soapbox or small stool and stand on it in front of my business. I the start to rant & rave about GOD. I mean rant & rave as to how much I think it's complete BS. How there's no proof I mean really rail against GOD & Religion.

Your gonna have a few people stop and display their displeasure at what I'm doing, but having the right to do it they can't stop me. I would piss a few off, open a few minds, turn some customers away, and probally gain some customers who are like minded. I mean I'm have siad some really nasty things about GOD & his SON.

Now take that same soap box or stool stand it in front of my business and start a rant about Jews, Israel & the Holocaust. I would be accosted, maybe arrested, the AIPAC would come in and boycott my business, they would label me anti-semetic They would picket my business and run me out of town.

Why can we not say bad things about the Jews or disbelieve that 6 million died in WW2? See the problem here?
Our country has been hijacked, or hijewed is a better word. When one learns about Germany prior to the WAR they may start to understand what I'm saying.

Remember the rule: Tell the big lie, keep telling it over and over and over, do not let it be questioned, after a period of time, the truth now seems like the lie. Never ever let it be questioned. And grind into the ground any one that does. This is Zionist Israel. We are being ground down as we read & write these words.

Since the fall of communism I have had the pleasure of meeting several russian immigrants . Some my age 49 some younger. I have never had one ( excuse me for useing the word whine) whine to me about how many Russians were killed in the Russian holocaust. I can't say that for the jews I've known in my life. The Russians or any others involved in that era, don't not wear the holocaust banner on their sleeves as the Jews. And they do not use it to further an agenda.

I think the learder of Iran is correct in his accessment. Why do we only talk about or remember a small percentage of those that died in the holocaust? When so many died..

reply to post by openyourmind1262


You're right, America is just a bigger version of Israel now.

reply to post by spurge


Really sad isnt it?

Originally posted by Equidae

What makes the Holocaust unique is the history of previous Jewish persecution, the top down government involvement, the resources put towards achieving their goal (even at the cost of military readiness), and the numbers/percentage of dead.

Well, what makes WWII so unique, is not really the holocust, but the fact that this "holocust" has been used as a means to accomplish countless murders, without anyone doing anything about it. The Allies won WWII, and with it, they obtained a wild card ... which reads "kill anyone you like".

The historical persecution of jews, is not and never has been disbuted. It's a fact, that can be seen through the historic meaning of the word "jew" and how it was used by the German war propaganda machine. However, the movement of zionism, prior to WWII, and Hitler's own "relation" is what makes a lot of people, question the authenticity of the original counts. We know, the Germans arrested and put the "yellow" star, of cowardice on people that had no jewish connection whatsover. We also know, that they did this to humiliate people and to cleanse the country of "leaches on society" ... but we also know, that families like the Krupps, and others, survived ... and not only survived, they were producing war machinery for the German war machine.

And on top of it, today you have the Neo-Cons, who claim some "jewish" relationship, and because of this relationship. Either "aiding" the jews, or actually being Jewish ... they get away with torture, murder and crimes against humanity. Not only that, but people as George Bush and his family, Prescott Bush, a known nazi conspirator and one who has gotten rich on the nazi gold. Suddenly, also has some "jewish" wild card up his slieve.

Nope, nope ... this is why there always have been people who have wondered wether the so called "holocust" isn't in reality a "revenge of the jews", and not a real holocust. But of course, stating that here and now, is not the time nor place to start that discussion. What I am pointing out, that because of these connection, and how politics have played out, in the aftermath ... makes everything suspect. Much like 9/11, everyone knows it doesn't add up, and because something is dirty, EVERYTHING is suddenly dirty.

We should never forget ... should mean, that when a country wages wars ... that country should be made to pay for the crimes they commit. It should not merely mean, "jews are holy, the rest are scum".

Originally posted by Blaine91555
What is your point? Any death is tragic and made even more tragic when it happens because a charismatic psychopath like Hitler convinced people to go along with him. Stalin and Mao were even worse.

The only point I can see is you are angry at the Jews because the Nazi's killed less of them than they did Russians? That is bizarre to say the least. If that were not the case you would not mention the Jews in nearly every post you have made in your thread; you would have just made the point at first and then discussed how it was for the Russian people. Instead of that you keep going back to the Jews.

Do you really think your being sly?

I'm mentioning the jews a lot to show that i am aware that millions of them were also murdered,not just the russians...

You saying that my point is that i'm angry at the jews because more of them didnt get killed is just wrong...

My point is that the media and what we read from them and what most young people are taught in schools,what we hear on the streets is that the only holocaust that happened during ww-2 is the jewish holocaust...

A false picture has been painted into the publics mind that shows that mostly jews were killed in the death camps...

Well just as many russians were killed in them as well,perhaps even more...

I work with a few young people and once i asked some of them...

"Who was killed in the WW-2 german death camps?...

And everyone of them said..."the jews"..

Then i asked..."who else did they kill?...

And they said... "we dont know"...

Then i asked..."why do you think that?...

And they said..." thats what they told us in school"...

Then i asked them..."did you know that around 6 million jews were killed,but 30 million russians were killed,thats a 5 to 1 ratio?...

And they said..." no they never told us about the russians being killed in school,only about the jews"

Then i asked..."why do you think we only hear about the jews and not the russians?

And they said..."because the jews have most of the money and they own hollywood and the media"

Let it GO!

Its over.
Done...would it be 40 years ago i would agree..but slowly i get tired of all that stuff...lets move on

reply to post by blocula


The Russian "Holocaust" Museum

Gosh, there is one... To no one's surprise...

There are quite literally thousands of books about all aspects of the Soviet/German War. All you need to do is look.