The Messiah destroys the Edomites and Moabites in his return.

reply to post by BO XIAN

to listen to rocks crying out--"there's a Jew hiding behind me--come kill him"

Not the first time i've seen that quote and everytime i do i can't stop laughing for about an hour. The Quran definately has some comedy in there once you wade around all the death, murdering, pillaging and raping.

reply to post by arpgme


I don't recall the Gospels having a single sentence

to the effect that

God will FORCE EVERYONE to see, hear, understand and believe

THE TRUTH.

In fact, there's also Biblical verses about God setting things up for the faithful who truly love Him in heart to dig the treasures out that are buried in His Word. Further . . . that He told things in parables so that the Pharisees would not 'get' them but those of simple faith who Loved Him would.

There IS evidence in the Gospels that God gives some individuals over to darkened minds based on their rebellious hearts against Him.

It seems to me that Moab And Edom will evidently include a lot of such people.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I'd have to recheck all those verses . . .

Isn't the Gog/Magog war the one when Israel is with

UNWALLED villages?

That can't be now. Has to be after the Peace treaty is signed with the Anti-Christ, it seems to me.

Or am I mixing up the Ezek 38 war?

I don't think anyone has the Biblically prophesied wars all figured out yet. Maybe I'm wrong.

reply to post by BO XIAN


Here is a verse that just adds to the Gog punishment by war from God Himself..

Ezekeil 38:14Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it? 15And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army: 16And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes. 17Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them? 18And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. 19For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; 20So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. 21And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother. 22And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 23Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

In this section we see some interesting things, at a time when Israel was living in peace and Gog knew this, it was in the what???? the LATTER DAYS. Whaaaa??? You mean in the latter days, Israel was living in Gog in peace and Gog refused them the right to live in peace?

For a thousand years, the Jews in Russia were in relative peace, but they began to face pogroms and persecution, so how would Ezekiel EVEN KNOW that Jews would be living in Gog? Because Gog did this, Gog will face punishment from God.

The Russian Revolution began bloody, based on a bloody war of brothers against brothers, and Joseph Stalin killed how many people during and after World War II?

I believe World War II was prophesied in the Bible, and God was telling them, we ain't seen nothing yet.

reply to post by WarminIndy


And I noticed something interesting in the above post...why does it say the fish and the birds would be shaking? That is something to look in to.

reply to post by WarminIndy


THX.

Interesting insight.

Certainly, it is inescapable, to me,

that Russia will descend on Israel to destroy her in the END TIMES.

And . . . will instead, be near destroyed herself.

AS will all who seek to destroy Israel.

reply to post by BO XIAN


I just had a striking thought also, we know the Bible says knowledge will be on the increase in the last days. Our grandparents and great-grandparents did not have access to the information we have today. Most of them only had access to the Bible and did not really know what happened in history because they simply did not have the access to it.

Most of our ancestors only had the information of history of a few generations prior to them and many people translated Biblical prophecy according to what they knew at the time. We, in our time, can read what those ancient documents said, and we can see what the nations that existed in antiquity believed. We have google earth to actually see those places, we can, by the internet, see the cities. Knowledge is no longer for a select few within academia.

If my grandmother were alive now and I asked her if she had ever seen the pictures of the Tower of Babel, she would have shown me an artist's rendition of it. She never saw the actual pictures of the base of the tower, or even the surrounding countryside. I know her grandmother would never dream that we have the access not only to the images, but the documents as well.

If you were to tell my grandmother that there was a faith system of the Anunaki, she would have immediately said they were demons, because she had no reference other than the Bible's authority. Now, we can see the images from their temples and steles that indicate these Anunaki were probably most likely beings, and we can see how those people reverenced them. That is not saying they are not demons, they may very well be, but my grandmother would have never even heard of them.

Her grandmother had never witnessed the atomic bomb and the destruction caused by it and the cold war to follow, but everything she knew could only be translated from the Bible and how some person who may have been as ignorant of history translated it for her.

But, they depended much more on the Holy Spirit in her day, and lived a life so vastly different than me. I have a much more convenient life with anything I want at my fingertips. We should not assume that we know it all though, there may be some coming after us that have access to much more information. We need to filter the information by the Holy Spirit and learn history because history made us.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Great points.

It is interesting that with all our knowledge . . . we are, in many ways, so much poorer in the quality of our lives and relationships.

I noticed that in China . . . the more westernized the Chinese became . . . the better off financially, the poorer were their relationships.

Sigh.

I think in terms of the OP, in addition to the scholarly sourced info, it does take Holy Spirit to understand Biblical prophecy best, if at all.

reply to post by BO XIAN

I don't think anyone has the Biblically prophesied wars all figured out yet. Maybe I'm wrong.

The easiest way to "figure them out" is to realize they are fulfilled prophecy.

Too late to edit my last post to add to it so here is another post.
There are several pages to this thread and a little difficult to refute every single post (not that it is impossible, just time consuming) in it so I took a look at the video (by well known fraud) mentioned in the OP.
"All the nations arrayed against it", yes, excuse me but crack open a history book will you (whoever listens to this sort of nonsense). This is what is called an empire, ever heard that expression before? You have? OK, this is what the word means, an array of nations, and why if you are a small nation, you don't want to go up against an empire because you will be destroyed, period, that is why people create empires.
Ok, to go back in time when there was a small country like as described in Zechariah, there were the Persians, and then there were the Greeks. After that, there was the Romans who were pretty efficient in war when they weren't fighting each other. These Romans had some business, or interest in this area of Judea since it was at the crossroads of Mesopotamia and Egypt and also other areas such as Ethiopia and Arabia.
Certain bandits or war lords were making mischief on the trade routes, so the Romans needed to proceed with activities including working in and out of Jerusalem. The Edomites, known as, Idumeans, gained entry into the city before the Romans arrived, and closed the gates against the Romans which created a siege situation which progressed (time of tribulation) until you had the total destruction of the city along with these Edomites.

reply to post by jmdewey60




There's NO WAY that continuously inhabited

Damascus

has been obliterated & never lived in again . . .

as the prophecies of the END TIMES wars declare it

as of 15 JAN 2012 02:31 Mtn time USA

WILL

be.

The REPLACEMENTARIAN, Preterist etc. perspectives

--fail on logic
--fail on history
--fail on basic Biblical understanding.

.

reply to post by WarminIndy

. . . fish and birds shaking . . .

Wellllllllllllllllll . . . on the fish part . . .

15,000+ undersea volcanoes spewing?

Along with numerous quakes prophesied to get more numerous and more devastating

with umpteen and new volcanoes above the sea slated to get lit off . . .

reply to post by BO XIAN

. . . as the prophecies of the END TIMES wars declare it . . .

There are fantastic OT prophetic predictions of ruin for every nation that they could think of and even for one they did not apparently know the name of.
Damascus was conquered by the Assyrians and later the Babylonians, then the Greeks and then it was battled over by the warring Greek factions up until the Romans took it, so there were plenty of opportunities to have wreckage and ruin in that city.
Maybe I am missing the End Time factor so you will have to point out where that is.

If its a verse that suggests the destruction of an "enemy", such as muslim countries.... its supposed to take place in our coming future. (eg- this thread)

If its a verse that suggests the destruction of Israel, who they are infatuated with, they say it "already happened" in the past. (eg- this thread )

Basically, the conclusions are already established, and they just re-package whats in the bible to weave a whole new story.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

I'd have to recheck all those verses . . .

Isn't the Gog/Magog war the one when Israel is with

UNWALLED villages?

That can't be now. Has to be after the Peace treaty is signed with the Anti-Christ, it seems to me.

Or am I mixing up the Ezek 38 war?

I don't think anyone has the Biblically prophesied wars all figured out yet. Maybe I'm wrong.

If you believe Zecharia's end time prophecy where the last generation begins when Israel is reborn as a nation, that puts us either in the Time of Sorrows or just right at the beginning of the tribulation, we may have even passed the first years. In the old testament a generation lasted 70 years, its been 63 and that leaves 7 years left, technically 6 if you counts us as being 1 year in the tribulation.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

I don't think anyone has the Biblically prophesied wars all figured out yet. Maybe I'm wrong.

The easiest way to "figure them out" is to realize they are fulfilled prophecy.

OK, so Jesus already came back for Jim Dewey and he is living in the millennial reign of Christ. How's the millennial reign working out for all the people dying by violence?

Yes, Jim Dewey's jesus came back and all has been fulfilled.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Evidently you are missing the part about

Damascus

utterly destroyed and never lived in again.

Evidently, also, you have a problem with taking God at His word and

trusting

that He meant what He said and said what He meant.

Heading off to church shortly.

Later.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

If you believe Zecharia's end time prophecy where the last generation begins when Israel is reborn as a nation, that puts us either in the Time of Sorrows or just right at the beginning of the tribulation, we may have even passed the first years.

If you were a Christian, you would be familiar with New Testament quotes describing these last days and the end of the world, happening in their own time or at the time of the crucifixion, making these earth changing events understood as the fulfillment of "end time" prophecies of the Old Testament.
The "re-birth" was the return from the Babylonian exile and the re-building of the temple in Jerusalem.
The "tribulation" was the destruction of Herod's temple in Jerusalem and the general destruction of the city and its walls.

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

I don't think anyone has the Biblically prophesied wars all figured out yet. Maybe I'm wrong.

The easiest way to "figure them out" is to realize they are fulfilled prophecy.

OK, so Jesus already came back for Jim Dewey and he is living in the millennial reign of Christ. How's the millennial reign working out for all the people dying by violence?

Yes, Jim Dewey's jesus came back and all has been fulfilled.

So, what, according to you is left unfulfilled?
The millennium is given a Roman name and it relies on a Roman concept in order to have a meaning and this is a general claim made at the inauguration of a new regime, a claim that with this new government, there will be better things to come so, be happy that it has come.
Jesus did return as promised and did so to grant the gift foretold in Daniel of the Son of man being received by his peers and to transfer to them what he had received himself from the Ancient of Days, which was the spirit of God to be used to be the authorized representatives of God in the new Kingdom established permanently by having Jesus' throne attached to God's own throne.
I find things quite well being under the reign of the Lord Jesus, thank you very much. The Lord has protected me from violence and I am alive today by way of power that comes from Heaven which sustains me and I am not under the dominion of Satan.
You may want to show me the place I must have missed where all things not perfect will be eradicated.

reply to post by BO XIAN

Evidently you are missing the part about

Damascus

utterly destroyed and never lived in again.

I may have missed that. What exactly do you think this statement you just made means?
"never lived in again".
Forever there is a big dead zone in the new world to come or whatever it is you think is supposed to replace this one?
If your answer is, no, then you agree this is not to be understood literally.
There is like twenty meters you would have to dig through in order to reach the city that existed in the time that Isaiah was written. I doubt anyone lives down there.