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The Messiah destroys the Edomites and Moabites in his return.

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posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 11:48 AM
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Could it be that Mohammed wanted to denigrate Isaac and replace him with Ishmael. And yet, nothing, nothing, and I repeat, nothing, in the Bible even says that Abraham went to Mecca with Ishmael. Hagar, the mother of Ishmael, settled in Edom, and gave Ishmael a wife from Egypt. There is nothing written that supports Abraham and Ishmael in Mecca, only the inaccurate story telling of Mohammed.

Why do you believe Mohammed is a prophet when he can't even get historical facts right? He tells you to believe the Torah, the same Torah that is completely silent about the black rock and Mecca and mentions nothing about Abraham and Ishmael being in Mecca.

Mohammed tells you that the Jews corrupted the Torah, and yet the Torah was long before Mohammed. Why is it no other person even challenged or addressed those who were accused of corruption? Because it never happened, Mohammed says opinions and people believed his opinions. He broke a commandment, thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

So Mohammed, being all holy and a prophet like you say he is, breaks several commandments and yet says you are khuffar if you do. Mohammed was a khuffar then, for breaking the commandments. Yes, your Mohammed was a khuffar.




posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


"They" are the accused of Mohammed, but Mohammed does not say specifically who, therefore, he made up a lie.


"They" could not have changed the Christian Gospels after Muhammad, since there are 5,735 (Welte, 2003) manuscripts of the whole or part of the Greek text of the New Testament (Injil) pre-dating Muhammad still in existence. Worldwide, there are 24,800 copies of these original manuscripts. These include the Codex Vaticanus (325-350 AD) located in the Vatican library and the Codex Siniaticus (350 AD) located in the British Museum. There are also 80,000 quotations in the works of early Christian writers which are so extensive that the New Testament could virtually be reconstructed from them without the actual New Testament documents. Then there is the obvious fact that the Christian Gospels were so widely distributed both before and after Muhammad, that any attempt to change (add/subtract) something in the Christian Gospels would have resulted in immediate discovery and condemnation. Additionally, the New Testament was handed down from apostolic times and its genuineness was guarded by Christian churches, and it was zealously watched by enemies of Christianity. A very wide protest would have resulted from both sides were it tampered with. Likewise, the Septuagint edition of the Old Testament was always in the hands of both Christians and Jews, both rivals in religion. Any attempts to change this by either side would have been vigorously attacked.

There are four more "safeguards" for the integrity of the Bible. (1) Jesus Himself read from Isaiah scroll in a Synagogue in Nazareth and declared it as Scripture (inspired from God), Luke 4:16-21; (2) The Dead Sea scrolls, found in 1947, verified the Jewish Torah back to 100 AD to 200 BC, when they were copied. Prior to this discovery, the oldest Torah dated to the 9th century AD. The Dead Sea scroll of Isaiah verified almost exactly the Isaiah scroll copied in the 9th century; (3) Early Church Fathers like Ignatius, Clement of Rome, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Irenaeus, who wrote from between 90-160 AD all cited in their writings Christian Gospel accounts (Guthrie, 1990, page 24); (4) We know that the writings of Moses were preserved as far back as 621 BC. 2 Kings 22 speaks of this at the time of the Israeli King Josiah. Ezra 7:14, Nehemiah 8:1-18, and Jeremiah 36 also speaks of the Jews maintaining Scripture.


The Old Testament of the Bible as I read...is exactly, and I mean exactly, as it was written then. Nothing has changed whatsoever. All you have to do is take the Old Testament in hand, go to any one of these ancient documents and compare...they are the same and have not changed...ever.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
The jewish priests didn't change anything and the dead sea scrolls proves it.



Today, the majority of scholars agree that the Torah does not have a single author, and that its composition took place over centuries. From the late 19th century there was a general consensus around the documentary hypothesis, which suggests that the five books were created c.450 BCE by combining four originally independent sources, known as the Jahwist, or J (about 900 BCE), the Elohist, or E (about 800 BCE), the Deuteronomist, or D, (about 600 BCE), and the Priestly source, or P (about 500 BCE).


There is the majority of scholars on one side, including expert JEWISH scholars, christian scholars, atheist scholars - and then there is you on the other side.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are dated between 150 BCE and 70 CE.

That is more than 300 years after the Torah was combined by priests (450 bce), and over 1000 years after Moses lived.



edit on 9/1/2012 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


"Mary was a direct descendant of King David which gave Jesus the right to ascend the Jewish throne, both through Mary and through adoption by his foster father, Joseph. Mary’s genealogy is supplied in Luke 3:23-38 ."

www.christiananswers.net...

Genesis 3:15

15) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

edit on 9-1-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
The jewish priests didn't change anything and the dead sea scrolls proves it.



Today, the majority of scholars agree that the Torah does not have a single author, and that its composition took place over centuries. From the late 19th century there was a general consensus around the documentary hypothesis, which suggests that the five books were created c.450 BCE by combining four originally independent sources, known as the Jahwist, or J (about 900 BCE), the Elohist, or E (about 800 BCE), the Deuteronomist, or D, (about 600 BCE), and the Priestly source, or P (about 500 BCE).


There is the majority of scholars on one side, including expert JEWISH scholars, christian scholars, atheist scholars - and then there is you on the other side.


The Dead Sea Scrolls are dated between 150 BCE and 70 CE.

That is more than 300 years after the Torah was combined by priests (450 bce), and over 1000 years after Moses lived.


And isn't it amazing that when I read Isaiah, I am reading it exactly as Jesus did? Wow, amazing, and Jesus was reading exactly as it was written by Isaiah. Wow, so Isaiah wrote it, Jesus quoted it, and I read it, the same words the same way..wow, talk about amazing.

Jesus and I read exactly what Isaiah wrote. How cool is that? And get this...

The same Bible Muhammad would have seen (if he ever did) is in both (1) The Vatican (Codex Vaticanus) and (2) British Museum (Codex Sinaticus). It is all there, including Jesus dying on the cross as atonement for our sins. And, His resurrection, and ascension into heaven - in front of many witnesses. The New Testament is preserved in almost perfect condition in these two Greek texts which both predate Muhammad and Islam by over 200 years.


So, who changed it and when did they do it? It is easier just to throw a blanket accusation out there, but proof, you have to have proof. So show us the names of the people who did it and when they did it.
edit on 1/9/2012 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


"Mary was a direct descendant of King David which gave Jesus the right to ascend the Jewish throne, both through Mary and through adoption by his foster father, Joseph. Mary’s genealogy is supplied in Luke 3:23-38 ."



Ok, let's see Luke 3:23-28:



Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,

the son of Heli, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melki, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josek, the son of Joda, the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, the son of Melki, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nahshon, the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Kenan, the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.




Where is Mary?


BTW, notice the part where Luke says "He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,"

What do you mean "so it was thought" Luke?

I thought you were the evangelist INSPIRED BY GOD and your Gospel is the "infallible word of God"?
edit on 9/1/2012 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


Remember, the Bible says that Jesus will reveal himself to the Jews when He is ready. The Bible mentions several times that not all things would be revealed during the time of the writing of the Bible, but at the end of times.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


"Mary was a direct descendant of King David which gave Jesus the right to ascend the Jewish throne, both through Mary and through adoption by his foster father, Joseph. Mary’s genealogy is supplied in Luke 3:23-38 ."



Where is Mary?


BTW, notice the part where Luke says "He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,"

What do you mean "so it was thought" Luke?

I thought you were the evangelist INSPIRED BY GOD and your Gospel is the "infallible word of God"?
edit on 9/1/2012 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)


Aww, you know the genealogy of Jesus Christ, good for you.


Matthew 1 1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. 2Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; 3And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; 4And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; 5And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; 6And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; 7And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; 8And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; 9And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; 10And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; 11And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: 12And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; 13And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; 14And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; 15And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; 16And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.


Where was Mary? They both were of the tribe of Judah. We all know that Judah was one of the twelve tribes of Israel.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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Shuruluni, ever wonder why the Bible doesn't even speak of Joseph's death?

If Joseph was the key player here, wouldn't it have warranted mention?



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 12:21 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
Shuruluni, ever wonder why the Bible doesn't even speak of Joseph's death?

If Joseph was the key player here, wouldn't it have warranted mention?


He is key here, if you have read my posts - if you have not, go back and read them, because Christians interpret every possible prophecy in the OT as relating to Jesus - and mainly the prophecies about him being a descendant of David.

But HE WAS NOT a descendant of David, because he was not the son of Joseph. And he cannot be in the line of David through Mary - because the lineage in the Bible is derived through fathers and not mothers.

This is why he is key. Because the two Gospels ATTEMPT to connect him somehow to David, precisely because they were trying to show several prophecies (like Isaiah's "suffering servant") as being about Jesus.

They tried and failed because no matter how you turn it - he cannot be the one prophesied there. Apart from the FACT that most of those prophecies foretell about the nation of Israel or completely other historical persons, there is also the key point that in order for Jesus to be the one meant in those prophecies he would HAVE TO BE a descendant of David - WHICH HE IS NOT.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 12:36 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 





It is not "my" Allah. It is Allah. The God. The same one who was called by THAT exact name by Jesus


Prove where in the bible Yahshua says his God's name is Allah? You won't because he didn't. The bible is older than the Quran, that right there should tell you something and before you can spout crap about the bible being corrupted the dead sea scrolls proves that it was not. Yahshua was Jewish, and they call God YHWH (YaHuWaH).


We don't call him by name. Ever. Period. Stop showing your ignorance.


Originally posted by WarminIndy
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


I reject your allah, and accept and believe in Jesus Christ, the lamb slain on the foundation of the world. I believe in Jesus, the chief Cornerstone, I believe in Jesus, the Good Shepherd.

I deny and denounce and reject your allah.


I deny your Rainman-esque, 'La-La-La', I-can't-hear-you BS. Stop clotting this thread with frantic repetition of your separatist Mantra, WarMongerin' in Indy!

Sorry, Mods.

ON TOPIC: The fact that the 'Messiah' will be killing folks upon his/her/it's "return" is why (IMO) all of these bronze-age cults worshipping invisible men in the sky and their 'sons/messengers' need to vanish from the earth as quickly as possible...or the entire globe will perish.

I'm glad I got out of the synagogue...now I don't hate people because other people tell me to.


Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by WarminIndy
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


I reject your allah, and I accept and believe in Jesus Christ.





JESUS CALLED GOD ALLAH!

Get it into your head finally.

And ALL ARAB SPEAKING CHRISTIANS call God ALLAH.


This is the bismillah in arabic "In the name of Allah, the most Merciful, the most Gracious":



The red underlined word is ALLAH.


This is GENESIS 1:1 from the Bible in arabic:



(In the beginning ALLAH created the heavens and the earth ...)


This is John 3:16 from the Bible:



(For ALLAH so loved the world ...)

So, you reject ALLAH - you reject GOD.


GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.





Of course, this fellow...the Muslim, knows more about Judaism than you so-called 'Christians'....lolz
He is 100% correct about this....I was taught this in hebrew school, even!

THIS IS WHY THERE IS NO PROBLEM PRAYING IN A MOSQUE!!! Christians generally pray to Joshy-boy.

Aaaaaaah....Classic!

Please! Don't let me interrupt your WWIII Pre-Party!!!

This thread is Jew-Approved!!!

S&F!!!



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by RoswellCityLimits
 


Show me proof of Jews praying in a mosque as Jews, and show me anything of a Jew performing a bar-mitzvah in a mosque. Show me Jews in the Dome of the Rock, instead of standing at the Wailing Wall.

So therefore, I shall say again, and not because it bothers you, but because you show how you truly feel...

I reject and deny and denounce your allah. I believe and accept Jesus Christ, the Son of the Abba Father. I have called no war or jihad against you, I have presented facts that you do not accept, even though those facts come from those who are ex-Muslim.

I reject and deny and denounce your allah. I have given reasons why, and do not apologize for my reasons.

I reject and deny and denounce your allah, because your allah is not Yaweh.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


You might be right! Maybe there is the possibility that Jesus had neither Mary or Joseph's DNA since it might have caused him to be born of "original sin" instead of the perfect man that he was. Maybe what Jesus ends up revealing to the Jews is that he was born among them, but had to be of perfect blood in order to save them, but they refused to accept that.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


You might be right! Maybe there is the possibility that Jesus had neither Mary or Joseph's DNA since it might have caused him to be born of "original sin" instead of the perfect man that he was. Maybe what Jesus ends up revealing to the Jews is that he was born among them, but had to be of perfect blood in order to save them, but they refused to accept that.


Muslims don't believe in original sin. So that would be an impossible statement for Shurun.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by RoswellCityLimits
 


It is impossible to have discussion because the facts presented against Mohammed are overlooked. Mohammed was a liar and proven to be a liar in his day.

In the entire 22 years of his self-proclaimed prophethood, he only had issues of the idols in the kaaba one time. He worshiped those idols many times during his prophethood.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by RoswellCityLimits
 





This thread is Jew-Approved!!!


Glad you like it.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy
reply to post by RoswellCityLimits
 


Show me proof of Jews praying in a mosque as Jews, and show me anything of a Jew performing a bar-mitzvah in a mosque. Show me Jews in the Dome of the Rock, instead of standing at the Wailing Wall.

So therefore, I shall say again, and not because it bothers you, but because you show how you truly feel...

I reject and deny and denounce your allah. I believe and accept Jesus Christ, the Son of the Abba Father. I have called no war or jihad against you, I have presented facts that you do not accept, even though those facts come from those who are ex-Muslim.

I reject and deny and denounce your allah. I have given reasons why, and do not apologize for my reasons.

I reject and deny and denounce your allah, because your allah is not Yaweh.


You won't see jews in the Dome, they aren't even being allowed on the temple mount now. The muslim Wakf and Israeli authorities keep them off the mount because they don't want to make the muslim mad. If a jew even tries to kneel down in prayer the authorities haul him off under the reason of insighting a public incident.

You can read all about how the jews get treated at www.templeinstitute.org
edit on 9-1-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
The jewish priests didn't change anything and the dead sea scrolls proves it.



Today, the majority of scholars agree that the Torah does not have a single author, and that its composition took place over centuries. From the late 19th century there was a general consensus around the documentary hypothesis, which suggests that the five books were created c.450 BCE by combining four originally independent sources, known as the Jahwist, or J (about 900 BCE), the Elohist, or E (about 800 BCE), the Deuteronomist, or D, (about 600 BCE), and the Priestly source, or P (about 500 BCE).


There is the majority of scholars on one side, including expert JEWISH scholars, christian scholars, atheist scholars - and then there is you on the other side.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are dated between 150 BCE and 70 CE.

That is more than 300 years after the Torah was combined by priests (450 bce), and over 1000 years after Moses lived.



edit on 9/1/2012 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)


And? That means it is not inspired by YHWH still? And yet the Quran that was also written by men, is inspired by him? Right


Please dude that arguement is stale and dead. Take a look at Yahshua's life, then look at Muhammad...compare the two. Yahshua lived a perfect life, Muhammad...did not. Yahshua conquered the hearts of men, Muhammad conquered men period. You call Muhammad a prophet yet he made no prophecies. You think Muhammad was the Holy Spirit yet he could not prophecy...see the problem? The Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth and he also governs prophecy. The only thing Muhammad prophecied was falsehoods. Even Lucifer can heal people, but only the Holy Spirit can prophecy.



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