The Messiah destroys the Edomites and Moabites in his return.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
double post

edit on 9-1-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

From the link your provided:


The genealogy of Jesus is described in two passages of the Gospels: Luke 3:23–38[1] and Matthew 1:1–17.[2]

Matthew's genealogy commences with Abraham and then from King David's son Solomon follows the legal line of the kings through Jeconiah, the king whose descendants were cursed, to Joseph, legal father of Jesus.

Luke's genealogy goes back to Adam, through a minor son of David, Nathan and apparently again to Joseph.

Both gospels state that Jesus was begotten not by Joseph, but by God, being born to Mary through a virgin birth.

These lists are identical between Abraham and David, but they differ radically from that point onward.

The Catholic Encyclopedia (1913) states that, aside from a general implication of her Davidic origin, there is no explicit Biblical record of Mary’s genealogy. But a number of extra-biblical sources, some relatively early, claim to provide her immediate ancestry, as well as an explanation for the divergence between Matthew and Luke.[3]

The apparent contradiction of the two gospel genealogies has aroused controversy since ancient times, although modern scholars tend to view the genealogies as theological craftsmanship rather than historical fact.

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by WarminIndy


No insecurities here, I have not had to resort to using big letters to get my faith shouted. I am standing firm in my faith, no insecurities.

I reject and deny and renounce your allah. I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

No, you just keep repeating the same thing like a broken record and a spoiled child "I leject allah, I believe in Lold jesus chlist" nanananana while refusing to address clear evidence like the FACT THAT JESUS CALLED GOD ALLAH.


Now repeat some more.



(Jesus still called God Allah - will you now burst out of rage? haha)

"Jesus called God Allah." I have seen you assert this in several threads, but I have yet to see you back it up. Maybe I missed it, and if so, I apologise. Could you prove this outside of the Quran? I do not accept "Allah" as God, but dude, I'm here to learn and to share.

Jesus spoke aramaic. In aramaic/siriac the word for God is ALLAHA or ELLAHA. It is the same root word as Allah (alif, lam, lam, ha)

BTW, as I have states above, this is also the same root word as ELOAH - which is the name of God used more than 2500 times in the Bible.

edit on 9/1/2012 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)

Interesting!

Are "alif, lam, lam, ha" the Arabic letters making up the name Allah? Yes, I know very little in this area.

Now, to the crux of the matter: Do you see any contradiction between Yahweh, Jesus, and Allah? Do you believe the God of the Jews, the Christians, and the Muslims is the same God?

Does "Eloah" = "Elohim"?

Thank you for your information.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Interesting!

Are "alif, lam, lam, ha" the Arabic letters making up the name Allah?

Yes.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
Now, to the crux of the matter: Do you see any contradiction between Yahweh, Jesus, and Allah?

Yahweh is an attribute of God. Jesus is a prophet of God. Allah is God.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
Do you believe the God of the Jews, the Christians, and the Muslims is the same God?

Yes. There is only one God.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
Does "Eloah" = "Elohim"?

Yes.

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by WarminIndy


No insecurities here, I have not had to resort to using big letters to get my faith shouted. I am standing firm in my faith, no insecurities.

I reject and deny and renounce your allah. I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

No, you just keep repeating the same thing like a broken record and a spoiled child "I leject allah, I believe in Lold jesus chlist" nanananana while refusing to address clear evidence like the FACT THAT JESUS CALLED GOD ALLAH.


Now repeat some more.



(Jesus still called God Allah - will you now burst out of rage? haha)

"Jesus called God Allah." I have seen you assert this in several threads, but I have yet to see you back it up. Maybe I missed it, and if so, I apologise. Could you prove this outside of the Quran? I do not accept "Allah" as God, but dude, I'm here to learn and to share.

Jesus spoke aramaic. In aramaic/siriac the word for God is ALLAHA or ELLAHA. It is the same root word as Allah (alif, lam, lam, ha)

That may be well and good to say al'lah is merely a word. But the character and nature of the being is what we should discuss.

Is your allah a being? Yes, Mohammed said your allah was a being. Allah is merely a word for the being Mohammed worshiped, that being was Hu'bal.

The Islamic symbol for allah is the crescent moon. That crescent moon has been associated with several beings that were considered allahs long before Mohammed.

Reasons to believe Hu'bal is the allah Mohammed chose to worship..

1:Hu'bal's temple was in Mecca.
2:Hu'bal's symbol was the crescent moon.
3.Hu'bal's temple contained the black rock of the kaaba.
4.Hu'bal was the chief deity of the Quraysh.

Let's see if Mohammed chose Hu'bal as the allah.

1:Muslims are required to take a hajj to Mecca.
2:Muslims dance around the black rock of the kaaba.
3:Mohammed said "this is allah".
4:Mohammed never removed the symbols of the crescent moon.

Mohammed destroyed an idol, but kept the symbols and traditions of Hu'bal.

Every time a Muslim prays to Mecca, they are praying to the temple of Hu'bal. Every time a Muslim takes a pilgrimage to Mecca to dance around the black rock of the kaaba, they are dancing around the black rock of Hu'bal. Every mosque bears the symbol of Hu'bal. This is undeniable and true.

This is not something a Muslim can deny. They worship Hu'bal and keep the traditions of Hu'bal.

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Yahweh is an attribute of God. Jesus is a prophet of God. Allah is God.

Yaweh is the name of God, not an attribute. Moses did not worship Hu'bal, which is very clearly defined as the allah of Mohammed. Yaweh is not symbolized by the crescent moon, therefore, nothing about Yaweh and Hu'bal are similar.

The most ancient language of the Hebrews was Ugartic, and the written language was Paleo-Hebrew that comes from Phoenicia. Never, never, never, anywhere is Ugartic, is Yaweh symbolized as the moon.

Yaweh means "I Am That I Am". That is different than al'lah, which simply means "the god". Long before Mohammed, the name Yaweh was applied to the God of Israel. When the Arabians in Mecca were worshiping al'lah, the Israelites worshiped Yaweh, and at no time did either say they were worshiping the same being.

In fact, all gods that the Israelites fell into worshiping as part of paganism, there was one pagan god named Ba'al, which means lord...but contains the same root word as al'lah. Jesus did not worship Ba'al.

The Hebrews, long before Mohammed, wrote the name of God as Yaweh, the Yod Ho Veh Ho. Yaweh is not found among the root words of Arabian language, therefore Yaweh and allah are not the same being.

reply to post by WarminIndy

Every time a Muslim prays to Mecca, they are praying to the temple of Hu'bal. Every time a Muslim takes a pilgrimage to Mecca to dance around the black rock of the kaaba, they are dancing around the black rock of Hu'bal. Every mosque bears the symbol of Hu'bal. This is undeniable and true.

Do not forget that they kiss the black meteor and pray to it to have their sins absolved and many even worship it. I dunno if there are any idols left in Mecca but there is definately one imbedded in the structure on the other side of it. i don't see how they could not know this thing is an idol. They also call it "the supreme rock god", now i dunno about you but...nowhere in the Torah have i ever read where Yahuwah says he is a meteor rock.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Every time a Muslim prays to Mecca, they are praying to the temple of Hu'bal. Every time a Muslim takes a pilgrimage to Mecca to dance around the black rock of the kaaba, they are dancing around the black rock of Hu'bal. Every mosque bears the symbol of Hu'bal. This is undeniable and true.

Do not forget that they kiss the black meteor and pray to it to have their sins absolved and many even worship it. I dunno if there are any idols left in Mecca but there is definately one imbedded in the structure on the other side of it. i don't see how they could not know this thing is an idol. They also call it "the supreme rock god", now i dunno about you but...nowhere in the Torah have i ever read where Yahuwah says he is a meteor rock.

None of what you say is true.

How can you do this? Are you proud to speak untruth when God is our witness?

Is it so "easy on the tongue"?

If it was out of ignorance, no problem - but seeing as you seem well versed in scripture, and having all the technological possibilities of today, it would be only a matter of 1-2 clicks on the net to research the things you simply claim as truth.

NO ONE prays to the black stone. It can neither harm you nor benefit you. It is but a stone. Far be it that it can "absolve your sins".
THe black stone is simply the marking point of the start of tawwaf - circumvention of Kaaba.

And it is not on embedded in "Mecca" - Mecca is a CITY. It is embedded in Kaaba - the House of God which ABRAHAM built.

And who calls it "the supreme rock God"?

How can you say such outrageous things? Do you not believe in God? Is lying not a sin?

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Every time a Muslim prays to Mecca, they are praying to the temple of Hu'bal. Every time a Muslim takes a pilgrimage to Mecca to dance around the black rock of the kaaba, they are dancing around the black rock of Hu'bal. Every mosque bears the symbol of Hu'bal. This is undeniable and true.

Do not forget that they kiss the black meteor and pray to it to have their sins absolved and many even worship it. I dunno if there are any idols left in Mecca but there is definately one imbedded in the structure on the other side of it. i don't see how they could not know this thing is an idol. They also call it "the supreme rock god", now i dunno about you but...nowhere in the Torah have i ever read where Yahuwah says he is a meteor rock.

None of what you say is true.

How can you do this? Are you proud to speak untruth when God is our witness?

Is it so "easy on the tongue"?

If it was out of ignorance, no problem - but seeing as you seem well versed in scripture, and having all the technological possibilities of today, it would be only a matter of 1-2 clicks on the net to research the things you simply claim as truth.

NO ONE prays to the black stone. It can neither harm you nor benefit you. It is but a stone. Far be it that it can "absolve your sins".
THe black stone is simply the marking point of the start of tawwaf - circumvention of Kaaba.

And it is not on embedded in "Mecca" - Mecca is a CITY. It is embedded in Kaaba - the House of God which ABRAHAM built.

And who calls it "the supreme rock God"?

How can you say such outrageous things? Do you not believe in God? Is lying not a sin?

edit on 9/1/2012 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)

Dude i have seen them do it with my own 2 eyes.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Every time a Muslim prays to Mecca, they are praying to the temple of Hu'bal. Every time a Muslim takes a pilgrimage to Mecca to dance around the black rock of the kaaba, they are dancing around the black rock of Hu'bal. Every mosque bears the symbol of Hu'bal. This is undeniable and true.

Do not forget that they kiss the black meteor and pray to it to have their sins absolved and many even worship it. I dunno if there are any idols left in Mecca but there is definately one imbedded in the structure on the other side of it. i don't see how they could not know this thing is an idol. They also call it "the supreme rock god", now i dunno about you but...nowhere in the Torah have i ever read where Yahuwah says he is a meteor rock.

None of what you say is true.

How can you do this? Are you proud to speak untruth when God is our witness?

Is it so "easy on the tongue"?

If it was out of ignorance, no problem - but seeing as you seem well versed in scripture, and having all the technological possibilities of today, it would be only a matter of 1-2 clicks on the net to research the things you simply claim as truth.

NO ONE prays to the black stone. It can neither harm you nor benefit you. It is but a stone. Far be it that it can "absolve your sins".
THe black stone is simply the marking point of the start of tawwaf - circumvention of Kaaba.

And it is not on embedded in "Mecca" - Mecca is a CITY. It is embedded in Kaaba - the House of God which ABRAHAM built.

And who calls it "the supreme rock God"?

How can you say such outrageous things? Do you not believe in God? Is lying not a sin?

edit on 9/1/2012 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)

Dude i have seen them do it with my own 2 eyes.

What have you seen?

Kissing it? They kiss it because it is the stone that was in the hands of Abraham and Ishmael and Muhammad.

Umar came to the Black Stone (performing tawâf, circumambulation), kissed it, and said, “I know that you are a stone, you do not cause benefit or harm; and if it were not that I had seen Allâh’s Messenger – peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him – kiss you, I would never have kissed you.”



Have you seen them praying to it? Have you seen the stone absolving their sins?
Have you seen them calling it "the supreme rock God"?

Produce your proof then!

Here we go, some nice pictures to back up that they kiss the stone and pray to it and even kneel to it and the building. I also never read anywhere in the Torah where Yahuwah says he was a building either. Maybe you should read the Torah? Specifically the parts of Genesis that deals with Abraham. Maybe you will be less confused when you read texts written by Moses as he was instructed by Yahuwah.

www.crystalinks.com...

Notice when Jews and Christians worship we raise our hands up to the sky in a Y shape arms spread wide? This is how you praise Yah...or Hallel'u'Yah. This is what raising your hands in that manner means.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Here we go, some nice pictures to back up that they kiss the stone and pray to it and even kneel to it and the building.

Where exactly in those pictures do you see them praying TO THE STONE?
Or kneel before it?

Do you even know what the black stone is? Or did you assume Kaaba is the "black stone"?

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Every time a Muslim prays to Mecca, they are praying to the temple of Hu'bal. Every time a Muslim takes a pilgrimage to Mecca to dance around the black rock of the kaaba, they are dancing around the black rock of Hu'bal. Every mosque bears the symbol of Hu'bal. This is undeniable and true.

Do not forget that they kiss the black meteor and pray to it to have their sins absolved and many even worship it. I dunno if there are any idols left in Mecca but there is definately one imbedded in the structure on the other side of it. i don't see how they could not know this thing is an idol. They also call it "the supreme rock god", now i dunno about you but...nowhere in the Torah have i ever read where Yahuwah says he is a meteor rock.

None of what you say is true.

How can you do this? Are you proud to speak untruth when God is our witness?

Is it so "easy on the tongue"?

If it was out of ignorance, no problem - but seeing as you seem well versed in scripture, and having all the technological possibilities of today, it would be only a matter of 1-2 clicks on the net to research the things you simply claim as truth.

NO ONE prays to the black stone. It can neither harm you nor benefit you. It is but a stone. Far be it that it can "absolve your sins".
THe black stone is simply the marking point of the start of tawwaf - circumvention of Kaaba.

And it is not on embedded in "Mecca" - Mecca is a CITY. It is embedded in Kaaba - the House of God which ABRAHAM built.

And who calls it "the supreme rock God"?

How can you say such outrageous things? Do you not believe in God? Is lying not a sin?

edit on 9/1/2012 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)

Dude i have seen them do it with my own 2 eyes.

What have you seen?

Kissing it? They kiss it because it is the stone that was in the hands of Abraham and Ishmael and Muhammad.

Umar came to the Black Stone (performing tawâf, circumambulation), kissed it, and said, “I know that you are a stone, you do not cause benefit or harm; and if it were not that I had seen Allâh’s Messenger – peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him – kiss you, I would never have kissed you.”



Have you seen them praying to it? Have you seen the stone absolving their sins?
Have you seen them calling it "the supreme rock God"?

Produce your proof then!

You mean it was Umar who knew the black rock was just a rock and would not have kissed it if Mohammed didn't? You mean Umar only kissed it because Mohammed kissed it? Why did Mohammed kiss it then?

The veneration of the black rock was established long before Mohammed, associated also with the moon god. Mohammed himself set it up in the kaaba. That means Mohammed venerated the pagan symbol. Umar would not have done it if Mohammed did not, therefore Mohammed is the prophet of the moon god.

Why is it so hard for them to understand that Mohammed was a worshiper of the moon god and retains all the symbols associated with the moon god? Even Umar recognized it as paganism and a symbol, the symbol that was venerated and kept by Mohammed.

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Here we go, some nice pictures to back up that they kiss the stone and pray to it and even kneel to it and the building.

Where exactly in those pictures do you see them praying TO THE STONE?
Or kneel before it?

Do you even know what the black stone is? Or did you assume Kaaba is the "black stone"?

The black stone is a meteor embedded in the corner of the kaaba incased in a metal constainer that looks just like a vagina (possibly goddess worship for the daughters of Hu'bal the moon deity?). Yahuwah doesn't care why youre kissing it or praying and worshipping in that direction, all that is enough to make him want to destroy you. Notice when the Israelites fashioned the golden calf when Moses was up on Mt. Sinai for so long and he came down and he saw them worshipping at the golden calf? They claimed they were not worshipping the calf either and he didn't care. He destroyed the calf and Yahuwah told Moses to grind up the gold into dust and feed it to the israelites as punishment for their wickedness.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Yahuwah doesn't care why youre kissing it or praying and worshipping in that direction, all that is enough to make him want to destroy you.

We worship in that direction because it is the FIRST HOUSE OF GOD built for worship by Abraham.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


The Muslims say Jesus was a prophet of allah.
Reasons to not believe Jesus was a prophet of their allah...

1:Jesus never said to pray toward Mecca, Jesus would have known if it were a holy city.
2:Jesus never kissed the black rock.
3:Jesus never took a pilgrimage to Mecca.
4:Jesus never said his ancestor was Ishmael.
5:Jesus never sinned.

You would think that if Jesus, the prophet, was worshiping the same being as allah, Jesus should have recognized Mecca as a holy place. Jesus said "The Father seeks those who worship in spirit and in truth". You would think Jesus would have at any time made any reference to Abraham in Mecca, but he never did. In fact, the Bible states exactly where Abraham traveled to, and not one of them was Mecca.

You would think the Torah would at least mention Abraham and a black rock, and yet the Torah is completely silent on that. So where did Mohammed get that idea?

Abraham was a prophet of Yaweh. Nothing, absolutely nothing, and I repeat nothing in the Torah mentions it. And the Muslims are told to believe the Torah, a book that is completely silent about Mecca and a black rock.

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Yahuwah doesn't care why youre kissing it or praying and worshipping in that direction, all that is enough to make him want to destroy you.

We worship in that direction because it is the FIRST HOUSE OF GOD built for worship by Abraham.

And yet the Torah does not mention it...hmmm.

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Yahuwah doesn't care why youre kissing it or praying and worshipping in that direction, all that is enough to make him want to destroy you.

We worship in that direction because it is the FIRST HOUSE OF GOD built for worship by Abraham.

And yet the Torah does not mention it...hmmm.

Could it be, oh I don't know, just REMOTELY POSSIBLE that the jewish priests and scribes who REwrote the bible simply REMOVED every mention of it, out of their hatred towards anything non-jewish?

How DARE GOD have a "house" outside Israel!

Everything must be in Israel and jewish!


Or perhaps because, as most scholars agree, they had NO IDEA about Abraham and only gathered ORAL transmissions about him - and that is what they put in the Torah we have today?

Is it not a bit too transparent how they make Isaac SUPREME and denigrate Ishmael?

You see?

And [mention] when We made the House a place of return for the people and [a place of] security. And take, [O believers], from the standing place of Abraham a place of prayer. And We charged Abraham and Ishmael, [saying], "Purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who are staying [there] for worship and those who bow and prostrate [in prayer]."

And [mention] when Abraham said, "My Lord, make this a secure city and provide its people with fruits - whoever of them believes in Allah and the Last Day." [ Allah ] said. "And whoever disbelieves - I will grant him enjoyment for a little; then I will force him to the punishment of the Fire, and wretched is the destination."

And [mention] when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and [with him] Ishmael, [saying], "Our Lord, accept [this] from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing.

Really good debate going on here! Loving it. I subscribe to no particuliar religion, but believe in something greater than myself and heres my take: No one knows God's true name, because to know it, is to have his power. I believe in the power of words just as you all obviously do.

Also, I really doubt the creator would favor any group over another in the end. The creator of all there is would be above such non-sense. We personify him, because we don't know any better. If we were supposed to call ourselves a particuliar thing ie. christian, muslim, jew etc, there would be NO question as to what the 'right' one would be. It wouldn't have to be passed down in controversial books. It would be ingrained in our soul; the same way a spider is born knowing how to build a web; we would KNOW... unanimously.

Whatever knowledge those books you all quote have or had, I think falls on deaf ears in today's world. Knowledge without wisdom to understand it is useless.

God/Allah is beyond our realm of understanding, in my humble opinion. I think once we accept that (hard to do as ego driven beings) we can then start to learn the truth and truly be closer to the one who says his name is, "I am."

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Yahuwah doesn't care why youre kissing it or praying and worshipping in that direction, all that is enough to make him want to destroy you.

We worship in that direction because it is the FIRST HOUSE OF GOD built for worship by Abraham.

And yet the Torah does not mention it...hmmm.

Could it be, oh I don't know, just REMOTELY POSSIBLE that the jewish priests and scribes who REwrote the bible simply REMOVED every mention of it, out of their hatred towards anything non-jewish?

How DARE GOD have a "house" outside Israel!

Everything must be in Israel and jewish!


Or perhaps because, as most scholars agree, they had NO IDEA about Abraham and only gathered ORAL transmissions about him - and that is what they put in the Torah we have today?

Is it not a bit too transparent how they make Isaac SUPREME and denigrate Ishmael?

You see?

And [mention] when We made the House a place of return for the people and [a place of] security. And take, [O believers], from the standing place of Abraham a place of prayer. And We charged Abraham and Ishmael, [saying], "Purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who are staying [there] for worship and those who bow and prostrate [in prayer]."

And [mention] when Abraham said, "My Lord, make this a secure city and provide its people with fruits - whoever of them believes in Allah and the Last Day." [ Allah ] said. "And whoever disbelieves - I will grant him enjoyment for a little; then I will force him to the punishment of the Fire, and wretched is the destination."

And [mention] when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and [with him] Ishmael, [saying], "Our Lord, accept [this] from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing.

edit on 9/1/2012 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)

Ah, such a common accusation by Mohammed. Let's see, did they do this?

The Torah has never been changed. The Dead Sea Scrolls are merely one resource. For instance, the Book of Isaiah found among the scrolls is written word for word as it is in the Torah today. That is only one...there are over 84,000 documents regarding the Torah, and not one word has been changed in the Torah since it was compiled.

When the Torah is studied and remembered over and over, one change would be enough to cause people to recognize it, but not one word has been changed.

So who said the Jewish scribes changed it? Your statement is one of opinion and not truth. We know the Hadiths are not really the true sayings of Mohammed because his followers simply could not remember all that he said and wrote only what they thought they could remember.

In fact, Aisha says that she had written on paper a saying of Mohammed, but a goat came in and ate the paper while they were having the funeral for Mohammed. This is in an hadith, so it has to be true. Right?

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Yahuwah doesn't care why youre kissing it or praying and worshipping in that direction, all that is enough to make him want to destroy you.

We worship in that direction because it is the FIRST HOUSE OF GOD built for worship by Abraham.

It's the first house of God? Funny, in the Torah the first house of God was the tent the Israelites made to house the ark of the covenant during the Provocation (the 40 years in the sinai desert). Thats what the Torah says was the first house of God.

Oh so now its muslim hating jewish priests that rewrote the bible to purposely omit anything about mecca. Seems to me like youre making up excuses to justify your religion. Just stop dude. The jewish priests didn't change anything and the dead sea scrolls proves it. The Torah pre-dates even christianity and predates Islam by 2000 years, they had no reason to change their own history because it is their history not ours. It happened to them not us