Was JFK the last true president of the United states

reply to post by seberhar


Considering JFKs father helped him steal the election with help from the Mafia and the Chicago Political machine, how can he be considered to be a REAL president

reply to post by -W1LL


Like I said, It's widely accepted among researchers that he was talking about the Soviet union and communism - and It's widely accepted for a good reason. Those who continue to believe he was talking about secret societies and so on, IMO, and with utmost respect, are looking for a conspiracy where there is none, yet they don't see this, or they haven't done enough research as the full video, not the edited down version (such as the one being presented in the opening post of this thread), can be found with incredible ease. I found it earlier on after a single google search for my last post after all..

JFK was not talking about Secret Societies - Remember, the Bay of Pigs disaster happened a very short while before this interview, that's one of the thing's JFK is talking about when he is addressing the press here, more specifically when he mentions nearer the beginning of the video "My topic tonight is a more sober one, [indistinct] concerned publishers as well as editors, I want to talk about our common responsibilities when faced a common danger. The events of Recent weeks may have helped to illuminate that challenge for some" - Notice his reference to the events of recent weeks as he addresses the press here, yes, that's the bay of pigs incident which recently went disastrously wrong, the press partly to blame for.

In this speech JFK is doing one simple thing really - He's asking the press for co-operation in the fight against communism and he's requesting that they censor themselves on National Security grounds (So that incidents like the Bay of pigs don't happen again for example) and to treat the Cold War like a "real war" in regards to how they go about their jobs and dealing with sensitive topics. Of course though, he doesn't specifically mention the words "Soviet Union," but come on, he obviously can't. That would be silly of him.. But he does mention "Communism" and he does mention "the cold war" as well as other clear references and that's because those thing's are what he is talking about.. Not some secret society controlling the world, him, America or anyone else really.

I mean It's so blatantly obvious I don't know how anyone can see/hear anything different.. that is when they listen to the full video of course (which is key), not the edited down version. It'll make much more sense then, I can assure you. Even as I type this in fact and as I listen into the speech everything he is saying is clearly in regards to the issues I've mentioned above.

reply to post by artistpoet

Yes from what I have researched JFK was one of them who had a turn of conscience. A very brave man - He is not or will not ever be forgotten. I guess declaring to end the FED and throw the criminals in jail was the last straw for them the criminal elite

Agreed... wholeheartedly. JFK assassination was where I cut my conspiratorial teeth. so to speak.

I feel that the turn of conscience was due to his father's death and his brother Bobby's influence which seemed to take over after Joe's influence ended. Catholic morals coming through in this particular case. I also feel that was the reason Bobby was assassinated.

I have written as much to Robert Jr as well.

www.robertfkennedyjr.com...

But also remember he was splintering the CIA in the next term and his brother had made it real uncomfortable for the Mob and the Teamsters. As well the Military was not happy with what he was doing. Lots of enemies that did not want to see the second term happen. There were also some stinky smells emanating from Johnson and Nixon on this subject.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

The Knights of Columbus.

Hahahahahaha! That's a good one. My family were members of the K of C. It is no Secret Society. It is a private club with booze. Oh and we had a beach on Lake Springfield that was cool.

Secret Society, I will be laughing all day on that one.

Now if you had said Opus Dei, that would have got my attention. You would have been wrong about the Kennedys being part of it, but you would have been right about the Secret Society thing. The Jesuits are pretty bizarre too, but the K of C?

Thanks for the laugh.

reply to post by Rising Against

I mean It's so blatantly obvious I don't know how anyone can see/hear anything different..

You too are correct sir. I think the reason people have this impression is due to one person; Alex Jones. At least that is my take on it. He just loves to include that partial quote in his films and point at it saying; "see, secret societies!"

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and AJ seems to live to prove that axiom.

reply to post by Ittabena


Hey Ittabena,

I find it all pretty frustrating to be completely honest. I mean don't get me wrong, I do believe a conspiracy in some form did occur in the JFK assassination case, and I've posted about some of them in past thread's where I tried to show why I believe what I believe exactly. But It seems as though most people aren't even trying anymore, almost as if seeing a conspiracy in literally every part of the case is so much easier and so that's the tactic they choose to adopt, that as opposed to putting in some work and looking for what could really be going on.

Personally, if I see something I think is odd I'll be the first to shout about it, but no, I really can't see any secret service stand down, I can't see any driver shooting a gun (Utterly ridiculous theory) and I especially can't see JFK making any kind of claim about Secret Societies, the latter here being something that can easily be dismissed when looking at the full video, not an edited down version of it. They just don't exist and all can easily be dismissed, that is if we're prepared to just look a little harder, do a tiny amount of investigative work and not be so easily swayed - as all have gained their fame through ridiculous youtube videos.

Btw, in regards to Alex Jones - I have to admit, I'm not that familiar with him in all honesty. I live, and was born, in the UK so we don't get to hear much about him over here. From what I've heard about him though, it seems as though that's a good thing.

reply to post by Rising Against


I feel the same way as you I dont know how you could feel this part of his speech had to do with communism. he would have had no fear in addressing communism as it was the public and popular fight at the time he only speaks and directly of secret societies with secret intentions while at the same time adressing the media and Gov colaboration. such as the CIA who were running black ops in cuba and something he did not agree with.

I dont know why he would have to allude to communism or the red scare I do know he could not put a name or a face to this enemy of america he said it himself we only need to look at his words there is no interpretation needed I think those who want him to be talking about communism are interpreting that with not much evidence just look at the subjects in the speech

and from this speech we can see what he obviously knew it is happening more and more every day what he is warning against is happening in the media in the ME and in our Gov.

Two thoughts on this:

1. Each era has veiwed the politicians of the past to be better than they are "today"....

2. I think "Ike" was the last true Leader the United States had as President. He warned us what was coming, and he was right.

JFK's legacy has been looked at through rose coloured glasses in many aspects of his Presidency. In spite of what Oliver Stone and his apologists would have you believe, Vietnam was on Kennedy. Not LBJ and not Nixon.

For all that was wrong with Nixon he ended the war in Vietnam, opened the door to China. It is not possible to understate the fear of Communist China within the people of America at that time. By doing so he lessened nuclear tensions with them and reduced US Mega-Villians to just the Soviet Union for the duration of the Cold War, the EPA was formed under his watch, and he took the US off the Gold Standard, freeing the economy to grow. But his reputation is mud, deservedly so for what he did to the confidence of the people in the office of the President.

Rather than JFK being the `Last of the good Presidents`, I think he was the beginning of what we now think of the office and to a lesser extent, all politicians.

reply to post by -W1LL


You've misunderstood.

You seem to think Communism is all he was addressing, as it was all you mentioned in your post - This is wrong as I already highlighted in my last post here. The press were whom he was primarily addressing at the time and once again I outlined why in my last post (Directly asking for their co-operation at that time etc...)

Please at least read it.

If you want to continue to believe he's addressing some secret society somewhere, feel free. Although It's clearly incorrect when observing the full video and taking into consideration what was going on around America at the time..

Originally posted by Ittabena
Hahahahahaha! That's a good one. My family were members of the K of C. It is no Secret Society. It is a private club with booze. Oh and we had a beach on Lake Springfield that was cool.

I understand where you are coming from but in the Above Top Secret world the Knights of Columbus (along with the Masons, Moose, Elk, Oddfellows, etc.) are considered 'Secret Societies'.

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by Ittabena

 

I especially can't see JFK making any kind of claim about Secret Societies,

why not when he directly says "secret societies".?

I just did a search through the entire speech because I don't remember through his entire speech him ever mentioning Russia, Communism or Communists directly, and there is no mention... what he does say directly is quoted in my first reply on page 1 with my reasoning. he uses clear nouns to express who he is talking about and why.

I feel it is others who are seeing the communist link to this speech. as this was his fight before JFK learned the truth behind the war machine and who the real enemies are.

reply to post by Rising Against

Personally, if I see something I think is odd I'll be the first to shout about it, but no, I really can't see any secret service stand down, I can't see any driver shooting a gun (Utterly ridiculous theory) and I especially can't see JFK making any kind of claim about Secret Societies, the latter here being something that can easily be dismissed when looking at the full video, not an edited down version of it. They just don't exist and all can easily be dismissed, that is if we're prepared to just look a little harder, do a tiny amount of investigative work and not be so easily swayed - as all have gained their fame through ridiculous youtube videos.

I have seen the threads you posted and found them very thoughtful and well researched. This is a subject very close to my heart as I was in kindergarten in a Catholic school at the time and every classroom had a camera in it for the Funeral. Don't know how old you are but I can tell you that I cried because I knew who the President was and really liked him. Of course at that age it was merely a charisma thing since I was too young to understand issues, but my father had a lot of respect for him and what he was doing. A few years later we were told in psychology class that children cannot comprehend death until the age of seven. I argued from my own personal experience.

Later, in high school, a teacher spent a couple days on the assassination of JFK. When it came time to do the term paper for that class I screwed up all my courage and asked if I could do it on the JFK assassination. The smile that came across Mr. Bryant's face scared me a little. I felt like it was bigger than me, I was a junior at the time. Mr. Bryant said he would help me and he guded me to some books to read, both pro and con. One ended up in my opinion to be a disinfo piece by a former CIA agent, which the author claimed to be.

But the good one was Mark Lane's Rush to Judgement. This Term Paper was nearly the only "A" I ever got. Why? Because I was interested, I was angry, and I had been cheated out of the future we might have had.

I agree with you about the whack job theories. It is my honest opinion that these are put out to continue to cloud the water, or to get that fifteen minutes of fame on YouTube.

The problem is that it has been so long ago that the guilty people are either dead or about to be. Will it ever be solved? No, I am afraid not. But do we want to know who? Or do we really want to know why? Who, points to a name, or a group of names, while why points to organizations, profits, underhanded dealings, and illicit motivations. All of which are the same today as they were then, and have prospered nicely by JFKs removal.

Camelot is not dead yet, but it is a long drive from here.

Btw, in regards to Alex Jones - I have to admit, I'm not that familiar with him in all honesty. I live, and was born, in the UK so we don't get to hear much about him over here. From what I've heard about him though, it seems as though that's a good thing.

It truly is. For a while I listened to him every day. But it is my, and my roommate's, and my web partner's shared belief that Alex is a shill. What the CIA called COINTELPRO. At the very least he is a poor showman, and has poor people skills. As a former DJ for twenty years I find even this least, horribly unacceptable.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

I understand where you are coming from but in the Above Top Secret world the Knights of Columbus (along with the Masons, Moose, Elk, Oddfellows, etc.) are considered 'Secret Societies'.

Know why the Shriners always build their lodge next to the K of C? (This is an old K of C joke.) Give up?

Because the "shriners" can't have liquor in their temples so they want to come next door.

I read your info over your Avatar. Interesting. I have been reading and studying up on Templar/Mason history for a long time now too. I have seen all the accusations, and have read some of their writings. In fact I am just about to join the local Masons. Now they are a Society with Secrets, because they make me leave when they do actual Masonic meeting type things, but during the drinking and cigar smoking I am welcome and they want me to join.

Now here is the sinister part. They are almost all history buffs like me, and once a year they get together and buy sausage from my store. Then they secretly cook it in their darkly antique Masonic Hall along with pancakes. When all is ready and the sun is just coming up they spring upon the community and serve a diabolically delicious pancake breakfast right before the annual spring parade. Imagine the horror as almost all the townsfolk are forced against their will to enjoy themselves and each other over some really good food. Some folks are even so programmed as to look forward to this nefarious event each year. Imagine.

I'm joining.

What I have found out about the Masons through independent research has not shown me anything that went against my beliefs. And as a student of Ancient Religions - dissatisfaction with a Catholic church which educated me the motive here - what I have found seems to be right. But since I am about to join I will not elaborate further on this thread or from this angle. I also understand their reasons for being secret and do intend to respect that secrecy.

My sister on the other hand - and we are pretty much on the same page despite completely independent research - thinks we should turn the country back over to them.

Anyway, that is my take on the sinister Secret Societies. For what it is worth.

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by -W1LL

 

You've misunderstood.

You seem to think Communism is all he was addressing, as it was all you mentioned in your post - This is wrong as I already highlighted in my last post here. The press were whom he was primarily addressing at the time and once again I outlined why in my last post (Directly asking for their co-operation at that time etc...)

Please at least read it.

If you want to continue to believe he's addressing some secret society somewhere, feel free. Although It's clearly incorrect when observing the full video and taking into consideration what was going on around America at the time..

edit on 9-1-2012 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)

I believe that because that who he addresses I did not just say communism I said Russia communist and communism NO where in his speech does he state those words.
if you read my first reply you would know that I agree he is adressing the MEdia and collaboration with the US gov. he also plainly states that.,

where am I incorrect because everything you are stating is only Assumption based on propaganda from the US and its media during this time. in his entire speech does not mention the war on communism or events going on around the US he is in fact and quoted to be talking about faceless enemy.

i say communism because that is what you began with in the first place you said that is what he was referring to with this speech "Soviet Union and communism".
if he is not speaking of secret societies the media and the US gov. why say those things? and why does he not say what he really meant if he does indeed mean the soviet union and communism and not secret societies with secret oaths?


I am not convinced of your viewpoint only because there is no Evidence in his speech to support it. only what others think he meant by his speech and the state of war we were in and those are just interpretations and Assumptions. I am quoting word for word his speech not reading anything that is not there no interpretations just facts.

Would be great to get a remarkable, above average, way over the top guy for president this time.

Everyone always plays it safe and votes for average, more of the same, establishment candidates.

A raving lunatic would be better than a normal person, imo. Someone who cares, someone with some passion.

reply to post by Rising Against


Interesting.
I never knew howe out of context that speech was. Huh !
That 's a horse of a different color.

reply to post by randyvs


To be honest I'm amazed by how people can still see the secret society connection even with the full speech - with the edited down version I can understand, but the full speech? It's almost unbelievable.

Sure, we're all here to find conspiracies and everything but this just isn't one, we know that now. Continuing to believe the secret society connection is just believing blindly in my opinion.

reply to post by -W1LL

why not when he directly says "secret societies".?

Try listening further on the video and this issue will become a little more clearer for you. Try listening from that moment onto around the 8 minute mark and then we can understand his true meaning when talking about secrecy - Particularly secrecy, truth and the press. (remember my point in an earlier post about the By of Pigs..)

Oh, and I find it funny how you claim that his mere mention of the words "secret societies" must mean "Oh my god, he's talking about secret societies!", which is actually quite ridiculous when taking into consideration the entire speech he's making, not just those few words and a few other snippets. Everything else is conveniently ignored, even where he directly mentions how the bay of pigs disaster came about at around the 11:15 mark concerning the press which I explained in one of my last posts here.

Oh, and It's worth pointing out that he also mentions the words "Human resources" at one point. Does that mean this is what his speech was about? No.

That's the same logic you're applying to this debate here though.

I just did a search through the entire speech because I don't remember through his entire speech him ever mentioning Russia, Communism or Communists directly, and there is no mention

1.) He's obviously talking about communism at multiple times in the video, anyone with basic knowledge of what was going on at the time can see this. Just because he doesn't mention it directly. that doesn't mean he isn't talking about them, That logic is silly.

2.) Why do you think he needs to constantly remind us he's specifically talking about one particular nation (which would be a stupid thing to do in itself) or ideology, why do you think he needs to directly mention someting? Come on W1ll, of course he doesn't.. Again, use some logic here. Saying something indirectly can be just as effective as saying something directly, in some cases it works better - JFK get's his message across to the press brilliantly, and he doesn't have to rile others up in doing it.

In regards to Russia itself - Like I said before, he's obviously not going to say the Soviet Union (They wouldn't say Russia anyway). Diplomatically that would be utterly stupid of him at this time.

I feel it is others who are seeing the communist link to this speech. as this was his fight before JFK learned the truth behind the war machine and who the real enemies are.

Wow, now this is getting silly from you.

Also, at one point in the video he says and I quote (minus the bolded text which is my own): "Our way of life is under attack, those who make themselves our enemy are advancing around the globe. [This is obviously a reference to communism btw. Blatantly obvious if you have any basic knowledge of events from that time] The survival of our friends [He's obviously talking about America's Allies here] is in danger. And yet no war has been declared, no borders have been crossed by marching troops, no missiles have been fired. If the press is awaiting a declaration of war before it imposes the self discipline of combat conditions, then I can only say that no war ever posed a greater threat to our security. If you are awaiting a finding of clear and present danger then I can only say that the danger has never been more clear and It's present has never been more imminent."

Anyone can tell here he's obviously not talking about "secret societies." Why not take off the conspiracy hat for a moment and look at this from a logical stand point? He's talking about real world dangers - Communism, the threat of war with the Soviet Union, American security, the influence of the press in these issues and so on.

The rest of the speech is in a similar fashion to this in that he's clearly talking about a real life potential threat, not a Secret Society or hidden power or anything else like this.

I still find it funny how you continue to focus on the secret society issue because he mentioned those words a couple of times, and yet you completely refuse to acknowledge the bigger picture - I.e. The entire video, instead focusing on small snippets to make whatever claim you're trying to make here.

Looking at the bigger picture gives you a clearer view of what you're looking at W1ll. It's about time you learn that. Focusing on the trivial get's you/us no where.

JFK was the last true president.Since then we have had people in the oval office who are in some way or another beholden to several special interests.I have found it interesting that after he rejected Operation Northwoods the next month he was killed.One of those odd coincidences or something more?

reply to post by Rising Against


Well believing blindly is something I must refuse to do at least in this case. Never knew it was edited.