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Pat Buchanan May Be Done At MSNBC: Phil Griffin

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posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 11:05 AM
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I'm no huge fan of Pat Buchanan, but there is an aspect of this story that needs a little spotlight shown on it.

From The Huffington Post:

The president of MSNBC criticized Pat Buchanan — the network's controversial pundit who has been missing from the air for months — during interviews on Saturday and said it is not certain that Buchanan will remain a paid contributor to the network.

"The issue has become the nature of some of the statements in the book," Griffin said. "I don’t think the ideas that [Buchanan] put forth [in the book] are appropriate for the national dialogue, much less on MSNBC.” He said he and Buchanan were going to meet to discuss the latter's future on the network, but that he has not yet made up his mind.
(Emphasis mine)

OK, I will admit, Pat seems to have this terminal case of foot-in-mouth disease. His viewpoints are quite often extremist and contradictory to mainstream society. But... they are obviously not unindicative of an appreciable section of the public. Someone is buying his books; quite a few someones are buying his books. As a commentator, his job is to express his viewpoints, assumed to be at least educated opinions on the subject matters concerned, to further a dialogue.

Since when does his job description include what those opinions are? Since when does anyone's job description include having the opinions that are conducive to the desires of their employers? Remember that this action was not predicated on anything the man said on air while acting as an agent of MSNBC, but on what he wrote on his own time in his book.

I wonder about many things this story brings up: are we moving into a society where agreement with the political/social views of one's employer is a requirement for employment? Are we unable to allow opposing viewpoints for fear we may actually have to defend our positions? Are we witnessing the slow but steady intrusion of the dreaded 'though police'? Are we witnessing the true death of free speech?

I really couldn't care less if I tried if you like Buchanan or not, or if you agree with his views or not. The vast majority here probably will disagree with his views. The issue as I see it isn't whether he said what others might consider right or wrong; it is whether or not he should be censored for saying what he believes.

Should anyone be fired for stating their beliefs on their own time?

TheRedneck




posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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MSNBC obviously thinks so. I can barely watch them anymore. If someone doesn't tow the ever narrowing viewpoints of MSNBC, they are culled from the thinning herd.

If they keep to this practice, soon they won't have many viewers but those robots and bobble heads who agree with their agenda.

Unfortunately, Pat has fallen under the ax for expressing his own point of view, on his own time, in his book published without any affiliation to MSNBC. Do I think it's wrong...yes. Do I think this practice will continue...yes.

Des



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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wow a national dialogue on immigration race and homosexuality is 'inappropriate', yes Pat is far to blunt and lacks the art of parsing his commentary to his audience. He isn't wrong he just doesn't know how to make his arguments work for that audience. I wouldn't worry about him though he'll get another forum for his opinions that doesn't have so much censorship



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 11:24 AM
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I'm a big Pat Buchanan fan. It's my opinion our country would not be in the sorry state it's in today had we elected Pat back in 1996.

To respond to your post, I had no idea Pat was even associated with MSNBC. Are you kidding me? That is about as opposite as you can get. I'm surprised Pat would go near that cesspool of liberalism. Pat was probably making them look bad with his common sense politics. Maybe MSNBC thought he would be on their side because Pat is against the NeoCons but they should understand that Pat is still a Repub but he leans more to the Ron Paul wing.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 11:37 AM
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Well selling books for anybody in politics has nothing to do with people reading or liking whats in it. Just take Herman Cain selling all those books to his own campaign to give away to people. He just paid himself with campaign contributions legally and it did not have anything to do with someone reading them. Sara Palin did the same thing with a lot of her books except she sold alot of them to companies like Newsmax who gave them away.

wonkette.com...



Oh, this is cute: delusional pizza man Herman Cain made his presidential campaign purchase over a hundred grand in copies of his own weird book sold by his own for-profit company! That is why God invented long-shot political campaigns after all, to help ambitious grifters shill prematurely titled books like This Is Herman Cain! My Journey to the White House filled with curious exhortations to illiteracy such as “I like to say I’m a leader, not a reader.” Only SHEEPLE read. Anyway, Herman Cain will keep running for president until all his books about the pointlessness of reading are sold, to his campaign. Good “business plan.”


www.huffingtonpost.com...



LATEST: GET SARAH PALIN'S NEW BOOK, JUST PAY SHIPPING! CLICK HERE


Correction I guess Herman Cain also sold books to Newsmax to give away.

www.newsmaxstore.com...



Exclusive Newsmax Offer
Get Herman Cain's New Book —
with FREE Offer!
A $25 Value, Just Pay Shipping*


And when it comes to controling our medias opinons. They have allways done it.

www.nytimes.com...



In early June, the combat stopped, and MSNBC and Fox, for the most part, found other targets for their verbal missiles (Hello, CNN).

“It was time to grow up,” a senior employee of one of the companies said.

The reconciliation — not acknowledged by the parties until now — showcased how a personal and commercial battle between two men could create real consequences for their parent corporations. A G.E. shareholders’ meeting, for instance, was overrun by critics of MSNBC (and one of Mr. O’Reilly’s producers) last April.

“We all recognize that a certain level of civility needed to be introduced into the public discussion,” Gary Sheffer, a spokesman for G.E., said this week. “We’re happy that has happened.”

The parent companies declined to comment directly on the details of the cease-fire, which was orchestrated in part by Jeff Zucker, the chief executive of NBC Universal, and Gary Ginsberg, an executive vice president who oversees corporate affairs at the News Corporation.

Mr. Olbermann, who is on vacation, said by e-mail message, “I am party to no deal,” adding that he would not have been included in any conversations between G.E. and the News Corporation. Fox News said it would not comment.


So really what ever happens with Pat is something he will not be able to fight no matter who is pushing to have him on tv. He has to play the game or find a new job.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 11:49 AM
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I can see how he would be questioned as a legitimate source for news programs with his book,



Chapter 4. The End of White America

“[W]hite America is an endangered species. By 2020, whites over 65 will out-number those 17 and under. Deaths will exceed births. The white population will begin to shrink and, should present birth rates persist, slowly disappear.”

“Mexico is moving north. Ethnically, linguistically and culturally, the verdict of 1848 is being over-turned. Will this Mexican nation within a nation advance the goals of the Constitution — to “insure domestic tranquility” and ‘make us a more perfect union’? Or have we imperiled our union?” (Page 134)





Chapter 6. Equality Vs. Freedom

“Those who would change society begin by changing the meaning of words. At Howard University, LBJ changed the meaning of equality from the attainable — an end to segregation and a legislated equality of rights for African-Americans — to the impossible: a socialist utopia.”

“Where equality is enthroned, freedom is extinguished. The rise of the egalitarian society means the death of the free society.”

“A time for truth. As most kids do not have the athletic ability to play high school sports, or the musical ability to play in the band, or the verbal ability to excel in debate, not every child has the academic ability to do high school work. No two children are created equal, not even identical twins. The family is the incubator of inequality and God its author.”

Chapter 7. The Diversity Cult

“The non-Europeanization of America is heartening news of an almost transcendental quality,” Wattenberg trilled.4 Yet, one wonders: What kind of man looks with transcendental joy to a day when the people among whom he was raised have become a minority in a nation where the majority rules?”

“Historians will look back in stupor at 20th and 21st century Americans who believed the magnificent republic they inherited would be enriched by bringing in scores of millions from the failed states of the Third World.”

Chapter 8: The Triumph Of Tribalism

America’s war of revenge against Japan was a race war. Newsreels, movies, magazines, comic books, headlines treated “Japs” as a repulsive race whose extermination would benefit mankind….Only well after the war was over was it re-branded a war to bring the blessings of democracy to…Japan.

We may deny the existence of ethnonationalism, detest it, condemn it. But this creator and destroyer of empires and nations is a force infinitely more powerful than globalism, for it engages the heart. Men will die for it. Religion, race, culture and tribe are the four horsemen of the coming apocalypse.

Chapter 9. ‘The White Party’

“Through its support of mass immigration, its paralysis in power to prevent 12-20 million illegal aliens from entering and staying, its failure to address the “anchor-baby” issue, the Republican Party has birthed a new electorate that will send it the way of the Whigs.”

Chapter 10: The Long Retreat

“We borrow from Europe to defend Europe. We borrow from the Gulf states to defend the Gulf states. We borrow from Japan to defend Japan. Is it not a symptom of senility to be borrowing from the world so we can defend the world?”

“Are vital U.S. interests more imperiled by what happens in Iraq where were have 50,000 troops, or Afghanistan where we have 100,000, or South Korea where we have 28,000 — or by what is happening on our border with Mexico?…What does it profit America if we save Anbar and lose Arizona?”

Chapter 11: The Last Chance

“We are trying to create a nation that has never before existed, of all the races, tribes, cultures and creeds of Earth, where all are equal. In this utopian drive for the perfect society of our dreams we are killing the real country we inherited — the best and greatest country on earth.”


Seems his racist side is coming out.He says "White America" is being destroyed.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by JBA2848

He was not hired as a news reporter; he was hired as a commentator. In other words, his job was to give his opinions. Now, if he had promoted those opinions on air, I might could understand MSNBC's decision... but in a book?

When someone goes to their job as, say, a short-order cook, should they be subject to being fired because they posted an opinion on ATS the night before that their employer didn't agree with?

That is my question; not whether someone agrees with Buchanan.

TheRedneck

edit on 1/8/2012 by TheRedneck because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by JBA2848

He was not hired as a news reporter; he was hired as a commentator. In other words, his job was to give his opinions. Now, if he had promoted those opinions on air, I might could understand MSNBC's decision... but in a book?

When someone goes to their job as, say, a short-order cook, should they be subject to being fired because they posted an opinion on ATS the night before that their employer didn't agree with?

That is my question; not whether someone agrees with Buchanan.

TheRedneck

edit on 1/8/2012 by TheRedneck because: (no reason given)


To my mind, it stands to reason that if you write a book, expressing an (arguably) insane opinion that your employer disagrees with, especially opinions as devisive as those Buchanan expressed, your employer has every right to terminate your employment. After all, doesn't the employer have the call as to who to hire/fire/employ/keep employed? Its not the first ammendment issue that people are trying to make it out to be.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


A commentator is a representative and they must represent themselves on and off air in a certain manner for the borad members and CEOs to keep them. Im sure if you seen a copy of thier contracts it would be in them. It all has to do with public image. And public image is on air or in a book.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by Monger and post by JBA2848

That is a very dangerous slippery slope, to use an oft-overused phrase.

When I accept a position as an employee, I am selling a product (my time) for a wage. That employer is not purchasing all of my time; in the United States, the 'standard' work week is 40 hours out of a potential 168. What I do on my time, when I am not being compensated for that time, is my own business. I can understand certain restraints, such as illegal activities which could create legal situations for the company, but nothing more.

To use an analogy, when you rent a car do you then have control of how that car is driven and by whom it is driven after returning it? Of course not! You only have the ability to choose another car if the car is in poor shape when you go to rent it again.

Otherwise, the door is opened to a myriad of unconscionable regulations. Do you have the right to drink a beer after work? Do you have a right to post your opinions on a message board? Do you have the right to engage in activities that may be considered dangerous, i.e. para-sailing, water skiing, snow skiing, hunting, or contact sports? Do you have the right to eat foods you want?

Some may call this a 'straw-man' argument, but is it? Or is it simply a continuation of a legal concept to its logical conclusion? If one's speech, off the clock and during one's own time, can be curtailed at risk of their employment, then why can a case not be made that potential for injury or future disease is a significant impact to allow control of one's life-style outside the workplace?

Where exactly do you draw the line?

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by JBA2848
Seems his racist side is coming out.He says "White America" is being destroyed.

Who are you quoting? That phrase is nowhere to be found in the text you quoted. Seems Pat's detractors have to stoop to false accusations. They have nothing left but making crap up.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by Unknown Origin
 


Chapter 4. The End of White America



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by MrsBlonde
 


Why do people even bother defending Buchanan?

The old ways are long gone. Get used to it instead of clinging to old dinosaurs like Buchanan.

We need a national debate on issues that MATTER (censorship, the economy, education, jobs) and not social issues (race, homosexuality, immigration).



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Independent contractors are treated differently than a employee. A contractor signs a contract and must abide by it in order to keep the contract. Public image if part of a contract does not only cover 40 hours a week it would cover all hours.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


No , that would lead to a kind of Corporate Censorship , and a Direct Violation of a Citizens Right to Free Speech . I also wonder why the MSM has gone from it's Basic Principles of Reporting the News to Opinionating
Evey Aspect of it ? In that regard , it's has Lost any Credibility in my eyes .



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by The Sword

The old ways are gone? Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm still right here.

I like the old ways. I like being able to say what I think on my own time without worrying someone is gonna tell my boss and he is gonna fire me. I like being able to decide for myself whether or not to wear a seat belt. I like being able to light up a cigarette without having this hoard of hypocritical do-gooders assault me while simultaneously eating stuff that came out of a test tube.

Those old ways are called 'liberty', 'freedom', and 'personal responsibility'. We have declined as a civilization in every way that I and others of my mindset consider important since letting them decline. We have more 'toys', but more crime, more corruption, more misery, more poverty, and more anger.

You can have your 'new ways' when I finally pass on to whatever lies beyond. Until then, please be patient. I'm eating grease, smoking, and overworking myself as fast as I can to rush your dream.

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by JBA2848

That is true enough. But then again, I have learned never to sign a contract that is harmful to me. Harmful as in controlling my actions when I am not engaged in the contracted duties. That's too close to indentured servitude for my tastes.

Was/is Pat an employee or a contractor?

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Looking at some sites about Pat Buchanan. I ran across a few things that seem strange.

This site seems to be hacked or redirected. He writes for The American Cause.
www.theamericancause.org...

This is the site itself. His link that is hacked is at the bottom.
www.theamericancause.org...



The American Cause's staff pursues this mission by offering timely and accurate analysis on critical and controversial issues and delivering our message through

Member awareness and activism
Television appearances
Talk radio programs
Op-ed articles
Press releases to opinion-makers
Daily Internet updates
Monthly newsletter

He founded and serves as chair of The American Cause.

He is also involved in The McLaughlin Group.
www.mclaughlin.com...

And I find it strange you can book him from any number of talent agencies.
www.athletepromotions.com...
www.allamericanspeakers.com...
www.grabow.biz...

He also has his home phone and address listed on the internet for anybody to find. Does he really want people calling Shelly at home or do you think he would answer?


www.411.com...



Patrick J Buchanan
1017 Savile Ln Mc Lean, VA 22101-1830
(703) 790-1551
Age: 65+
Associated: Shelley S Buchanan



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by The Sword


The old ways are long gone. Get used to it instead of clinging to old dinosaurs like Buchanan.

We need a national debate on issues that MATTER (censorship, the economy, education, jobs) and not social issues (race, homosexuality, immigration).

Was reading through the thread and had to stop to reply to this post.

Post of the week, probably the month sir.
Lets talk about the Elephant in the room , and not argue over curtain colors.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by JBA2848

He was not hired as a news reporter; he was hired as a commentator.


I would love to support diversity in this - - but alas - - I can not.

It seems to me right wing conservative religious belief - - - is finally waning in its own prejudice.

I'm old enough to remember George Wallace and the "white hope". It lost its luster too.

People are evolving. They are growing up. Jesus will hold - - but bigotry thinking will not.



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