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Unions BOOST economy in Germany

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posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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Interesting to note that the decline of unions in the US closely coincides with the decline of the middle class.

www.articlesbase.com...


Whereas the return of unions in Germany is having the opposite effect.

www.addictinginfo.org...
edit on 8-1-2012 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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Imagine that.
I can't figure how people have been so duped into believing unions are bad. Oh I know where it originates: big business. And all the outlets paid to spread the "bad" news about unions. Pitiful.

How hard is it to figure out that when large groups of earners are bringing home a decent wage, that it benefits the whole of the economy??

How hard it it to figure out that if you are required to have 2 and 3 jobs to survive, you don't have any time or energy left to go out and contribute to your community, and your local economy??

How difficult is it to fathom an increase (and burden) on the health care facilities as sickness and injuries will increase with poorer working conditions and number of hours required to work per week??

Stop the dumbing down!!

Go Germany!!

And I'm not even a member of a union. Imagine that.

Fab post, good info.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 10:12 AM
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Your article is very light on verifiable facts and heavy on"assumptions". It makes bold statements like:

"Because of increasing union membership, Germany has a 6% unemployment rate

That is where I stopped reading.
That's the authors' "cause and effect" ASSUMPTION! Not a"fact": 6% unemployment obviously can have many other factors involved than just"unions".


liberal"hit piece" further down it contradicts itself:" why germany's economy is so good

"Taxes are also a big reason why Germany has a better overall economy. Corporations and the wealthy are taxed at a higher rate in Germany than in the US. This taxation is a big reason why the German government has low deficits, and the fact that regulation is tighter. Our deficit is high because corporations, aided by their Republican pawns, have loopholes that allow them to pay zero taxes. Get rid of the loopholes and deductions, and couple that with raising the tax rate and tightening regulations and our deficit will start melting away".

for critical reading skills...You found a politically convenient(pro union) headline with little hard substance thanks...
edit on 8-1-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-1-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-1-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-1-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by 46ACE
 


I can use your same logic on the assumption that unions are bad, so whats your point?

Here is a question for you. Who is going to contribute to the economy more:

1. Someone who makes 8 dollars an hour and lives paycheck to paycheck
2. A union member who makes a living wage, and has a level of job security where they feel safe to spend money on a home, car or a stereo system, by paying cash and not incurring debt?
3. A CEO who spends money on luxury items, and banks the rest.


edit on 8-1-2012 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 10:22 AM
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reply to post by openminded2011
 


Because of increasing union membership, Germany has a 6% unemployment rate which is low compared to other European countries and the United States. Americans certainly wish the unemployment rate were 6%.

This statement from your source is not true or only partially correct.

Unions and worker representatives are naturally and always strong in Germany's social market economy and thus secure good working conditions and wages... but they do this in a close partnership with the employer associations and the state, as it is enshrined in the institutionalized settlement of conflicts, outlined in the collective labor law.

It's the balance and reasoning between these parties that does the trick here.
edit on 8-1-2012 by ColCurious because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 10:24 AM
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This statement from your source is not true or only partially correct. Unions and worker representatives are naturally and always strong in Germany's social market economy and thus secure good working conditions and wages... but they do this in a close partnership with the employer associations and the state, as it is enshrined in the institutionalized settlement of conflicts, outlined in the collective labor law. Its the balance and reasoning between these parties that does the trick here.
reply to post by ColCurious
 


So maybe we should use the same model? Sounds good to me.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by openminded2011
reply to post by 46ACE
 


I can use your same logic on the assumption that unions are bad, so whats your point?

Here is a question for you. Who is going to contribute to the economy more:

1. Someone who makes 8 dollars an hour and lives paycheck to paycheck
2. A union member who makes a living wage, and has a level of job security where they feel safe to spend money on a home, car or a stereo system, by paying cash and not incurring debt?
3. A CEO who spends money on luxury items, and banks the rest.


edit on 8-1-2012 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)


My"point" is your article is a"convenient headline" with little substance behind it.
You ever been a union member?
Hey I've had a union card forced on me; paid my dues; and watched the national union reps whisked off directly from the local airport to the company owners' northwoods cabin for a weekend of "guided" fishing, wining and dining before the week of "contract "negotiation".
Unions exist to propagate(grow) the union and support the union management.

edit on 8-1-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 10:27 AM
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Didn't need to have a story to call it,
like it is. More people working at better wages in decent work environments is going to be a better benefit to society than low-paying jobs.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by 46ACE
 





My"point" is your article is a"convenient headline" with little substance behind it. You ever been a union member? Hey I've had a union card forced on me; paid my dues; and watched the national union reps whisked off directly from the local airport to the company owners' northwoods cabin for a weekend of "guided" fishing, wining and dining before the week of "contract "negotiation".


Point taken, but I am wondering if you were to weigh those abuses which occur in some cases against the benefits union membership has had for some people, which would come out ahead. No I have not had the opportunity to join a union, largely because I live in a "right to work" state. I have seen the other side of the coin. Workers who have no voice or say so in the workplace and are working "at will" which means they can come in one day and regardless of your being a good worker and doing a good job, they can get rid of you. You also have to take whatever raise you are given, and have little or no job security. I would pay for some fishing trips to have more rights than that. Corporate execs do all kinds of perks like this when they are making business deals, why shouldn't a union rep do so to make a deal with a company that benefits the workers?
edit on 8-1-2012 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-1-2012 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by openminded2011
So maybe we should use the same model? Sounds good to me.


No you can't... because this would be communism and communism doesn't work!


Also, our Unions are a bit different from yours so you would have to reform them first.
However, your article strikes me as a bit biased, as 46ACE already pointed out.

ETA: You can read more about the German social market economy model here.
edit on 8-1-2012 by ColCurious because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by ColCurious

Originally posted by openminded2011
So maybe we should use the same model? Sounds good to me.


No you can't... because this would be communism and communism doesn't work!

Also, our Unions are a bit different from yours so you would have to reform them first.
However, your article strikes me as a bit biased, as 46ACE already pointed out.


Umm.. no, it wouldnt be communism, it would be democracy. What we have now is corporatism, which is pretty much the same as communism as the state=the company. In communism, the state controls the means of production. In corporatism, the means of production (the corporation) controls the state, an inverse arrangement but basically the same as communism.
edit on 8-1-2012 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)



www.huffingtonpost.com...
edit on 8-1-2012 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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Well I'll tell you: you are living in a fantasy dream world. We had no more job security than any other non union factory:
" They can always find a way to fire somebody they don't "want" around.Or" make them" quit...


I Never saw someone reinstated through the "shop steward" system. Extruded Aluminum factory under the ( "ornamental iron workers"union )You are believing liberal propaganda.

During the East coast " wildcat truckers strike" in the early70's non union company truck drivers like my dad were shot at and killed by concrete blocks thrown off over passes. by teamsters sympathizers(mafia)
edit on 8-1-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-1-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-1-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by openminded2011
 


Originally posted by ColCurious
No you can't... because this would be communism and communism doesn't work!


Sorry I was trying to be sarcastic but forgot to add these... ->
. Fixed.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by 46ACE
 


Last time I looked, we were still free to have an opinion.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by openminded2011
reply to post by 46ACE
 


Last time I looked, we were still free to have an opinion.

Correct:
And you can base it in dreamy "fantasy propaganda" or reality...



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by 46ACE
 


Whatever, but here is something that is not "dreamy fantasy". 30 years of conservative politics have destroyed unions and the middle class. If you think tax cuts for the rich and more of the same are going to fix the problem its you that is living in a dreamworld.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by openminded2011
reply to post by 46ACE
 


Whatever, but here is something that is not "dreamy fantasy". 30 years of conservative politics have destroyed unions and the middle class. If you think tax cuts for the rich and more of the same are going to fix the problem its you that is living in a dreamworld.


Nice:
putting off topic words in my mouth. I am describing the work world under a "union utopia" Is not all you've been lead to believe (other members here will vehemently disagree). Your "liberal slip" is showing.. there...jumped right into the left/right paradigm dindja'..."30 years of conservative politics"(no democrats in govt since1980?????????????????? I think not...


Enjoy your day...This has taken a "wrong turn" and I won't bother you any more today to perpetuate a left/right fight.....



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by openminded2011
Interesting to note that the decline of unions in the US closely coincides with the decline of the middle class.

www.articlesbase.com...


Whereas the return of unions in Germany is having the opposite effect.

www.addictinginfo.org...
edit on 8-1-2012 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)


Unions in of themselves are a good idea, but when you have the people running them more obsessed with lining their own pocket or "tranforming America" via crashing the system...

My Dad worked at Bethlehem Steel. I know how these "Unions" operate. Union officials stay Union officials by hiring thugs to beat up or murder anyone who would dare run against them, all the while collecting kick backs.

And another thing that bothers me with American Unions, is the fact that many Union rep's and Union leaders only qualification is that their parents where Union Reps or Union Leaders. That or their parents/grandparents where mobsters. Just a bunch of lazy scum suckers trying to earn an easy living off of the backs of others.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 08:36 AM
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reply to post by korathin
 

Wow. If this is true our Unions are really nothing like yours.
Our Unions are more organised or "professional" (no offense) and more under public scrutiny.
They can't afford criminal behaviour, cronyism or corruption... they have to function properly.
Representatives and Leaders are chosen and elected on basis of their expertise and experience of course, so they are competent to conduct the important political negotiations.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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reply to post by openminded2011
 


S&F for your thread as well as your observations regarding the benefits of a unionized workplace and it's overall effects on society. As someone who worked through a union for 32 yrs., (beginning at age 16) I think I know a little about their strengths, as well as their weaknesses and I would agree that without them, the economy of entire nation suffers as a whole.

I began working through the International Longshoremen's Association in 1972 as a laborer, loading and/or unloading cargo ships while I was still attending high school and I retired from the industry in 2005. During my tenure, I became efficient in every aspect of the trade as well as union operations. I served for over 20 yrs. as an elected union representative and served for over 10 yrs. as a member of the Board of Trustees overseeing the investments and administration of our benefit trust funds with assets in excess of 500 million.

For 13 yrs., I fulfilled the elected position of "Business Agent" for the union on a voluntary basis while I earned my living laboring right alongside the workers I represented. Prior to my election, that position paid $70,000 annually but due to the fact that non-union pressure was eroding our workload, our union was hurting and something had to be done. Needless to say, all union reps. are not just "in it for the money."

While I will agree that there is indeed such a thing as union corruption, it usually occurs more at the national or international levels and I would ask any of the union bashers who claim to have witnessed it; "What did you do to stop or correct the corruption?" Did you make any attempts to replace or run against the corrupted leader? Did you expose him for his corrupt deeds?

There is corruption everywhere but IMO, to witness it and do nothing about it is just as bad as doing it yourself. It's real easy to sit back and complain while never lifting a finger to help and I'd just bet that's the reason that most short-term union workers no longer work there. It's because the union got rid of their lazy asses.

If the union ever taught me anything, it was to never forget what it's like to work for a living and to always respect those "who earn their living by the sweat of their brow."



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