Still "Open Season" on Canada's First Nations people?

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Tourism is good.

It is still selling the Noble Savage, and doesn't address most of the isolated groups.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

You do know, of course, that the law dictates that land was not to be seized from the FN, rather, attained by negotiated treaty. You should also know that in many cases, this was not done...so who's getting the handout?

This all happened in the past, before any of us were born. How is it my problem if some of the tribes gave away the rights to their land for whisky and blankets. A deal is a deal. You can't just keep adding things to the treaties. Which is what they do.

I have no problem with the natives right to self governance, as long as it's not on my dime. The free ride needs to come to an end.

I did some work on a reserve a couple of months ago. Every family on this reserve has a new house to live in with no mortgage. The thing that got me was that there wasn't one single house with any lawn or landscaping of any kind. They ALL just let their property weed over and do nothing with it. Zero pride of ownership. Why? because they never had to work for it, absolutely no appreiciation for what they have. Makes me sick.

Originally posted by Darkmask
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

You do know, of course, that the law dictates that land was not to be seized from the FN, rather, attained by negotiated treaty. You should also know that in many cases, this was not done...so who's getting the handout?

This all happened in the past, before any of us were born. How is it my problem if some of the tribes gave away the rights to their land for whisky and blankets. A deal is a deal. You can't just keep adding things to the treaties. Which is what they do.

I have no problem with the natives right to self governance, as long as it's not on my dime. The free ride needs to come to an end.

I did some work on a reserve a couple of months ago. Every family on this reserve has a new house to live in with no mortgage. The thing that got me was that there wasn't one single house with any lawn or landscaping of any kind. They ALL just let their property weed over and do nothing with it. Zero pride of ownership. Why? because they never had to work for it, absolutely no appreiciation for what they have. Makes me sick.

edit on 9-1-2012 by Darkmask because: (no reason given)

No motivation to get ahead is always bad , I to have seen when dropping material off a hole cut into the side wall of the bathroom and a horse drinking out of the dang bathtub for crying out loud . Leaves a lasting imprint of that bands attitude .

reply to post by watchdog8110

No motivation to get ahead is always bad , I to have seen when dropping material off a hole cut into the side wall of the bathroom and a horse drinking out of the dang bathtub for crying out loud . Leaves a lasting imprint of that bands attitude .

lol! That must have been in Sask. because a guy I work with told me the exact same story. Too funny!

I would love to see them work for the things they are given. Just to learn the value of a dollar.

Disclaimer; I'm not saying all natives are like this, just that many of them are.

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Tourism is good.
It is still selling the Noble Savage, and doesn't address most of the isolated groups.

How do you know what I'm talking about? The 'noble savage' doesn't even enter into it. You might be surprised, but there's a lot more to FN history than 19th century European romanticism.

As far as addressing the isolated groups, if society sees its First Nations through a lens tinted by the worst elements of its culture or circumstance, then white attitudes will sound a lot like yours. On the other hand, if they see squalor as an aberration and not the norm within FN communities then the alarms sounded will not be so muted by cynicism.

Originally posted by Darkmask
This all happened in the past, before any of us were born. How is it my problem if some of the tribes gave away the rights to their land for whisky and blankets. A deal is a deal. You can't just keep adding things to the treaties. Which is what they do.

Two points...if you get divorced and the Court decides that you got supremely robbed in your settlement, that can be opened up again. Not looking to start a new debate...just sayin'.

As far as bad deals are concerned, in most ways, you really can't turn back the clock and rewrite the past. However, seems to me that it ill behooves us to create a monster head start and then complain that the FN can't keep up.

Originally posted by Darkmask
reply to post by watchdog8110

 

No motivation to get ahead is always bad , I to have seen when dropping material off a hole cut into the side wall of the bathroom and a horse drinking out of the dang bathtub for crying out loud . Leaves a lasting imprint of that bands attitude .

lol! That must have been in Sask. because a guy I work with told me the exact same story.

Too funny!

I would love to see them work for the things they are given. Just to learn the value of a dollar.

Disclaimer; I'm not saying all natives are like this, just that many of them are.

edit on 9-1-2012 by Darkmask because: (no reason given)

Funny that - I have a friend who lives in Sasketchewan who worked with the FN on behalf of the Canadian government. Yes a lot of these people have big problems adjusting to a culture forced upon them.
The FN cultural way of life was trashed - it is an historical fact. Yet though my friend worked for the government she knew this but wanted to help and be of assistance in a practical way - I doubt she would ever dream of making jokes at their expense - Or look down on them for having a different style of life - Computers fast cars and a big bank accounts do not make any superior over another - I guess she just cared about her fellow Human beings as she would say-things like - we are all equal in the eyes of God.

reply to post by Darkmask

Footnote - What is the value of a dollar these days or should I say today for it seems to be sliding by design every day

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Tourism is good.
It is still selling the Noble Savage, and doesn't address most of the isolated groups.

How do you know what I'm talking about? The 'noble savage' doesn't even enter into it. You might be surprised, but there's a lot more to FN history than 19th century European romanticism.

As far as addressing the isolated groups, if society sees its First Nations through a lens tinted by the worst elements of its culture or circumstance, then white attitudes will sound a lot like yours. On the other hand, if they see squalor as an aberration and not the norm within FN communities then the alarms sounded will not be so muted by cynicism.

There is no reason for the squalor. None.

My cynism is over not being allowed to fix it, or address the reasons it happens.

There is NOTHING TO DO. Nothing you are saying changes that in many of these reserves. No purpose. I can't GIVE people a purpose. They have to give it to themselves.

Do you know how many companies are trying to hire FN out in these areas? They can't get them to come work. When they do get people, it is often some white guy married in who is squeaking into the contract as a FN hire.

So even when things are opened up, it still isn't happening. The profound culture gap is deeper than providing opportunities. The opportunities need to be wanted and used.

This isn't happening. There is a great FN "tourist" thing not too far from here - great building, interesting idea, on a route on the way to another tourist destination. Never open.

But pointing this stuff out will get your a** chewed.

Now, the stuff that the Inkameep are doing is pretty cool, but even they will tell you that they've always insisted on doing things a different way than the other tribes.

reply to post by artistpoet


The culture "forced upon them" was done quite a long time ago. The people here now, they've never known anything else. They've grown up with trucks, in heated homes, with DVDs and Xbox.

There are gaps that continue to come through time. My own family was still showing problems from the Home Children scheme upto my generation. That's five generations downstream showing it. So I'm aware that issues can continue.

These are familial issues. Not cultural issues. Familial. And that my friend, saying that is even more anathema.

reply to post by Aeons
You know what? I think it's safe to say we both share concerns about the state of some communities...and their culture, and frustration that the money going to the FN does not seem to be creating effective change.

That's legit. It's a really complex issue, with no easy answers but debate such as ours ensures it won't get buried.

I agree. I want it out in the open, even if it is yucky and messy.

I am not the enemy of Natives. My husband is part Native, his half-brother is Metis, and with the way my nephew is shaping up with bonding tendency like his Dad it is looking likely that some of my brother's grandchildren are going to be Metis.

This issue isn't far from home. This issue comes to dinner.

Those thriving are not attached to any Native heritage, though maybe that'll be different if my nephew does end up long-term with his current girlfriend as she appears to have some relationship to her tribe still.

This is what is happening and it isn't being addressed: Natives who are doing well are often leaving the culture. With a rejection of it that is deep. They don't affiliate with that culture at all.

This is the choice people are finding they have, and it will leave all the good parts to fall away too or exist only in Museums.

A few years ago the federal government build a whole mess of housing in in Labrador for the Innu, I believe. A few months ago a number of complaints start up about mold problems and such. So they roll some footage shot recently in, ah, Natuashish, I believe. They pan across a row of houses, and what stands out? Broken windows! At least a half dozen ground-floor or below windows broken and patched with plywood! Now, keep in mind this is Labrador, possibly the coldest place on the North American continent, with snowfall averages measured in meters. And these people are complaining about mold in houses that are completely open to the elements! And not only that, but they actually blamed the federal government for it, claiming shoddy building quality!

The other thing I don't get and am kind of curious about is how it's decided who gets FN status and who doesn't. As I understand it, the Inuit are essentially unrecognized. I only ask because I'm about 1/16 Inuit (not that I could take advantage of it, records are rather lacking) and I've never heard about anything related to them.

Haven't read all the replies,so my apologies if this has alrady been said. Anyway, there is only one way,to my mind, that this situation can be remedied. Do away with the reserves and all government handouts. That is all. Of course,it'll never happen as no government has the stones to try it. It would cause a huge uproar,no doubt, and likely the government would loose their next election which means,of course, they won't touch the issue with a ten foot pole.
As long as the reserves and government handouts remain, the issues will remain too, likely getting worse rather than better. The reserves and handouts are the worst thing we could have done to the natives. On the surface it seems like it would be a great thing for them, but reality is different. First of all, you have now successfullly seperated and segregated the natives from the rest of the people. A clear line exist-this land is yours,this is ours. Second, you give them money,housing etc which removes the need for many of them to work. They won't be wealthy or even well off on these handouts,but its enough to live on without any of your own sweat equity. This is a terrible thing to do to a person. It removes purpose, strips them of pride in their own achievments and removes all drive and ambition. The native population in Canada is not the only people who are being ruined by government handouts- the U.S has it's own very similar group.

I live in Alberta, and I have met many Natives. I've met several who don't live on the reserves and don't live on government money. They have pride,dignity and self respect. They are well off,well educated and all around good people. They work for what they have, and the pride of ownership is readily apparent. I work at an auto shop, and you can almost always tell which vehicle is owned by natives. Typically they are absolutely filthy and in poor condition,despite being only a few years old. These are in my experience all reservation vehicles. On the other hand, the natives who work for their living have vehicles as clean and well kept as anyone else, even if they still live on the reserve.

I believe a person must DO SOMETHING,anything constructive,to make their living. Without this, I don't think one develops the proper self respect. People who live off the government by their own choice become lazy and loose the meaning in their lives. They breed, and their children observe this lack of motivation and labour. They in turn see no need to go get a job,education etc,as they are accustomed to the government being there to see to their needs. In fact, they come to believe they are entitled to this handout, and perhaps even more than is being given. This whole thing just continues to spiral downwards, and as long as we keep doing the same thing, our results will be the same. You cannot throw enough money at this to fix it-that approach has been tried,here and elsewhere. Drastic change is needed. The reserves need to go.

Originally posted by Darkmask
I live in central Saskatchewan, and I can tell you that the natives here are a wild people, and many of them hate whites.

I believe the root of the problem is how they raise their young. Many permit their children to run around like animals with no rules or structure in their lives. They grow up having no respect for others and many turn to a life of crime. About 8 out of 10 homicides in my city are committed by natives, who only represent about 15% of the total population.

I don't feel to sorry for them though because most of them have every opportunity in the world to make something of themselves. Most just choose not to. Why? Because they really have no need to work. Everything is just given to them by our government. Free money, free shelter, free food, free prescription drugs, free dental care, free eye care and free post secondary education.

My question is......How are the natives ever going to be a self-sufficient people if they never have to work for anything?

I sure wish I could give you a thousand stars for this post, one just isn't enough.

Not going to bother

You aren't the reserve and the reserve isn't you. Saying that the system of the reserves should go isn't the same thing as saying that native community should go.

Originally posted by xxclaro
Haven't read all the replies,so my apologies if this has alrady been said. Anyway, there is only one way,to my mind, that this situation can be remedied. Do away with the reserves and all government handouts. That is all. Of course,it'll never happen as no government has the stones to try it. It would cause a huge uproar,no doubt, and likely the government would loose their next election which means,of course, they won't touch the issue with a ten foot pole.
As long as the reserves and government handouts remain, the issues will remain too, likely getting worse rather than better. The reserves and handouts are the worst thing we could have done to the natives. On the surface it seems like it would be a great thing for them, but reality is different. First of all, you have now successfullly seperated and segregated the natives from the rest of the people. A clear line exist-this land is yours,this is ours. Second, you give them money,housing etc which removes the need for many of them to work. They won't be wealthy or even well off on these handouts,but its enough to live on without any of your own sweat equity. This is a terrible thing to do to a person. It removes purpose, strips them of pride in their own achievments and removes all drive and ambition. The native population in Canada is not the only people who are being ruined by government handouts- the U.S has it's own very similar group.

I live in Alberta, and I have met many Natives. I've met several who don't live on the reserves and don't live on government money. They have pride,dignity and self respect. They are well off,well educated and all around good people. They work for what they have, and the pride of ownership is readily apparent. I work at an auto shop, and you can almost always tell which vehicle is owned by natives. Typically they are absolutely filthy and in poor condition,despite being only a few years old. These are in my experience all reservation vehicles. On the other hand, the natives who work for their living have vehicles as clean and well kept as anyone else, even if they still live on the reserve.

I believe a person must DO SOMETHING,anything constructive,to make their living. Without this, I don't think one develops the proper self respect. People who live off the government by their own choice become lazy and loose the meaning in their lives. They breed, and their children observe this lack of motivation and labour. They in turn see no need to go get a job,education etc,as they are accustomed to the government being there to see to their needs. In fact, they come to believe they are entitled to this handout, and perhaps even more than is being given. This whole thing just continues to spiral downwards, and as long as we keep doing the same thing, our results will be the same. You cannot throw enough money at this to fix it-that approach has been tried,here and elsewhere. Drastic change is needed. The reserves need to go.

Very good post. You have great insight and an ability to to see the big picture.

I agree 100% with everything you just said.

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by artistpoet
How can you walk over from China - It does not make sense

Genetic testing has shown that most of the currently existing North and South American people's are of the same descent as the people in Asia/Mongolia. They came over on the land bridge during the ice ages.

genographic.nationalgeographic.com...

science.howstuffworks.com...



It's a "THEORY", albeit a very good one, doesn't make it "Fact". www.abovetopsecret.com...
JohnnyCanuck recognized this right away.
Although, I fail to see it's "Relevance" whereas "Police brutality" and "Outright" shameless displays of discrimination?.

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by alilonthecheekyside

 

Unfortunately there is the Black Op/M'Kultra involved as well.

Not to mention ET and the inner world type bases.

-Yeah, if it's not one thing...it's another. As if we don't have enough problems already, we eventually have to deal with these "other entities" as well.

Not that they don't need some deep inner healing in their communities, and that there aren't high level stats on child protection issues etc.

-Don't forget, some of those people in the "Child protection" feild are of aborigional heritage too.
-Not just Indian children are being apprehended...I assure you.