Judge Napolitano: What if they're lying to you about Ron Paul? - Fox Business

Originally posted by kkrattiger

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
reply to post by WiZKiD111

 

In the REAL WORLD such as ours, if you follow someone like Ron Paul down the path he wants to go, it may seem all well for a little while... but sooner or later you're going to feel serious pains of economic tyranny by the hands of private business.

"Private business" meaning NOT the government and NOT publicly-traded companies? Can you give an example of a tyrannical private business causing "serious pains of economic tyranny" (or No, because it has not happened yet)?
I do not agree or disagree with Ron Paul's economic positions; have not researched the matter. Rather, I am attempting to understand what exactly NoHierarchy supposes will happen if Ron Paul's economic stance is applied, while poking at the bombastic, ill-supported opinions in the post at large, here posited as support for specific claims of likely outcomes of following such a "path."

Did I not already lay this out? Is it not already obvious?

When a business mistreats workers, consumers, ecosystems, the air/land/water, or causes undue harm to anyone/anything in serving selfish drives for profit, that is economic tyranny. When the few hold unjustifiable amounts of wealth over and above the many, that is economic tyranny. When the wealthy have everything easier as well as a larger say in what is supposed to be a Democratic/representative political process, that is economic tyranny. When we work jobs we hate so we can buy crap we don't need, that is economic tyranny. When resources/land is effectively stolen (whether illegally or not) by private businesses from people who live on/near or require it, that is economic tyranny. The list goes on and on.

And being publicly traded has no realistic bearing on whether it's economic tyranny or not, I'm referring to private businesses not in the sense of whether or not they're publicly traded but rather a privatized/for-profit/market entity.


Here are Ron Paul's stances on Energy:

* Remove restrictions on drilling, so companies can tap into the vast amount of oil we have here at home.
* Repeal the federal tax on gasoline. Eliminating the federal gas tax would result in an 18 cents savings per gallon for American consumers.
* Lift government roadblocks to the use of coal and nuclear power.
* Eliminate the ineffective EPA. Polluters should answer directly to property owners in court for the damages they create – not to Washington.

These are more or less RIDICULOUS propositions that would create serious/unacceptable consequences, and it would not work itself out like Ron Paul (and other free marketers) think that it would. This would open the floodgates to mass environmental exploitation/destruction and the dismantling of CONSUMER protections and CITIZEN protections that WE have put in place to prevent large corporations from screwing us over. Does Ron Paul SERIOUSLY BELIEVE that the average person has the time/money to hire lawyers to sue every single corporation that screws them over?? It's completely childish and out of touch for him to believe that that's a feasible option. He just doesn't understand the consequences of his economic policies.

His stances on "right to work" laws are ridiculous. Yes, there is corruption within unions that could be corrected by making them more horizontal/transparent, but FOR THE WORKERS. Unions are GOOD for workers when they're properly organized. The way Ron Paul (and other right-wingers) paint them is that they're this evil burden on workers, when at the end of the day they pay farrrr better than private sector jobs and actively fight to maintain workers' rights, and at the LEAST give workers a guaranteed collective voice where they have essentially NONE as individuals under the thumb of a private boss/business-owner/exec. Right to Work is just a race to the bottom.


A couple of Ron Paul's stances on the economy:

* Driving down gas prices by allowing offshore drilling, abolishing highway motor fuel taxes, increasing the mileage reimbursement rates, and offering tax credits to individuals and businesses for the use and production of natural gas vehicles.
* Eliminating the income, capital gains, and death taxes to ensure you keep more of your hard-earned money and are able to pass on your legacy to your family without government interference.

Allowing offshore drilling??? IS HE CRAZY? No, just no.
Natural gas vehicles??? THAT is his genius alternative?? Sounds like the gas industry got their hands on him, period.

As for his talk about eliminating those taxes... that's just feel-good euphemistic crap for eliminating the, already historically low, taxes on the wealthy. THAT is all it'll amount to. Regular workers are not burdened by taxes nearly as much as they are by LOW WAGES coupled with INFLATION/INEQUALITY.

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
reply to post by WiZKiD111

 

Thing about Ron Paul is...

Many of his stances/ideas are great and needed. He is very honest/consistent and doesn't mince words. He seems to genuinely want to end certain forms of corruption. Much of his foreign policy/social/domestic/constitutional ideas are great...

HOWEVER...
Ron Paul has a dark side that I don't think he realizes. HIS ECONOMIC IDEOLOGY.
In many ways if Ron Paul became president, we might see some improvements, but we'd also see things getting a LOT worse economically/environmentally... specifically in terms of the poor/under-privileged and any victims of Capitalism/industrialization/etc. He wants to massively de-regulate corporate America and take what little regulation there is on Capitalism away. THAT IS INSANE. We've seen what happens when we let a single-minded/for-profit and infinite growth/expansion-minded economic beast (Capitalism) do as it pleases... and time and time again, the people, the workers, minorities/women, indigenous peoples, other species, ecosystems, the air/land/water, the quality of our food/products, the efficiency/sustainability of our infrastructure/transportation, etc. GET SCREWED. All of this free market obsession is stupid and dangerous and willfully uneducated. Yes there are decent lessons from it, BUT, you cannot massively de-regulate a beast like Capitalism and pretend it'll magically work itself out because "that's what the market does"... IT DOESN'T. The market should NOT be the basis for our society, the BASIS for our society should be much more core concepts from which a freer market would naturally erupt but would be an AFTERTHOUGHT.

In the REAL WORLD such as ours, if you follow someone like Ron Paul down the path he wants to go, it may seem all well for a little while... but sooner or later you're going to feel serious pains of economic tyranny by the hands of private business. If you've EVER been a victim of a terrible workplace, faulty/unsafe/shoddy products or planned obsolescence, pollution, economic discrimination, the wealth gap, materialism/consumerism/advertising, greed, money woes, etc. they'll likely get WORSE under a de-regulated modern Capitalist market. LOOK at industrial America, LOOK at China right now, LOOK at what de-regulation did with our banking/housing/financial markets, LOOK at what sparse regulation does about pollution/global warming, LOOK at your cities/towns/country-sides overtaken by rampant advertising/development/big-box stores, LOOK at everyone you know either struggling with money and/or becoming pathetic/reckless in acquisition of it, LOOK at suppressed technologies/cures/solutions, LOOK at how pathetic we've all become working jobs we hate so we can buy sh** we don't need. De-regulation perpetuates that system, and anybody who says otherwise is practicing some SERIOUS doublethink.
USE YOUR HEADS PEOPLE.

edit on 8-1-2012 by NoHierarchy because: (no reason given)

Being in my 50's , and remembering what America was like during the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's, I just have to Laugh at this Post . Before the Misguided Tenets of unchecked Liberalism gained almost Complete Control over our Society and Economy, America was a Stable, Conservative, Economic Free Market Industrial Giant with no Equal around the Globe . All of our Problems Today can be traced back to the time in our 200 Yr. plus History when we Abandoned the Principles that made this Country Great . Posterity will Never Return to America unless it somehow Realizes what it Once Was , what it has Become Today , and what it Wishes to be in the Future . It is Now up to the Younger Generation Right Now to Decide what their Future will eventually be , Tyranny or Freedom , the Choices that the Right Honorable Dr. Ron Paul has been Preaching about for the last 30 Years. Is Personal and Economic Freedom something you would be Willing to Fight for ? You Decide......

Right right... keep thinking that we weren't a plutocracy and that the last few decades were some kind of free-market paradise.

Keep in mind, when average Americans were doing the best was when we saw the highest tax rates for the wealthy/corporations, the greatest strength in unions/workers rights and various LIBERAL standards for the common man and environment. Without those standards, you can kiss your 8-hour workday, ban on child labor, relatively safe/clean workplaces/products/food/ecosystems/air/water, right to unionize, women/minority rights, minimum wage, social security/medicare/medicaid, and so on GOODBYE. People DIED in the streets for your rights as a worker, fighting the titans of industry FOR YOU, and you sit there ignorant and satisfied, naively believing you're on the good ol' boys' team.

Originally posted by MasterCylinder
I must be in the twilight zone. This was on Fox????? Must have been broadcast at 3 AM so nobody saw it.

Judge Napo has big brass balls!!!

even better. This is on Fox Business Channel.. Even though I have cable, even though I pay for some extra channels, I cannot get FBC.. I have to listen to the Judge on YouTube and other sources..

reply to post by WiZKiD111


You know, I'm extremely skeptical of the controlled, corporate media, and I'm always cautious to let what the reporters/journalists say even get their foot in the door of molding my opinion. But this guy, I really like the things he says. A pro-Ron Paul, pro-Constitution Fox host.....it's hard not to trust this guy.

What would be the benefit of having somebody who is anti-establishment on a Fox network, with the ability to reach millions of people? Maybe to kind of keep that group of people who is aware of what's wrong with this country limited to the things that he talks about? I don't know......but I feel like there's more to this guy than simply genuinely caring about this country.....hmmm.........

reply to post by blangger


This is offtopic, but I found the fake block really cool. It surprised me, in a "What? they already passed that law?" way.

Originally posted by TupacShakur
reply to post by WiZKiD111

 

You know, I'm extremely skeptical of the controlled, corporate media, and I'm always cautious to let what the reporters/journalists say even get their foot in the door of molding my opinion. But this guy, I really like the things he says. A pro-Ron Paul, pro-Constitution Fox host.....it's hard not to trust this guy.

What would be the benefit of having somebody who is anti-establishment on a Fox network, with the ability to reach millions of people? Maybe to kind of keep that group of people who is aware of what's wrong with this country limited to the things that he talks about? I don't know......but I feel like there's more to this guy than simply genuinely caring about this country.....hmmm.........

edit on 8-1-2012 by TupacShakur because: (no reason given)

Just an FYI your response was riddled with contradictions.
I personally wouldn't trust anybody that is famous or has access to a media outlet unless he/she has a completely unbiased stance on the world that benefits not one person nor organization but everybody that contributes to human kind and yet he comes across without 'feeding' you information but simply makes you question the information that's already half way down your throat that's trying to be digested while you subconsciously vomit it back up.

I think that people are slowly understanding(waking up) that the world is full of injustices and are finally doing something about it.
I can't blame a person that is blind, as I was fooled once upon a time too though what counts is his ability to comprehend the situation at hand and attempt to make a difference regardless of how big or small.

Kudos to all those who attempt to speak the truth.

Originally posted by TheCounselor
reply to post by blangger

 

This is offtopic, but I found the fake block really cool. It surprised me, in a "What? they already passed that law?" way.

What block sorry?
edit: I apologize for the double post, had an old tab open.

Originally posted by squidboy
I flagged this because it's an excellent video.

BUT

My question is why did you address Paul supporters and Occupy members be hit with 4 minutes of truth? A majority of Paul supporters know this already. As does a majority of occupy members (however hard they try to push that movement into the ground or to the left).

Personally, supporters of Obama and all the other GOP candidates should watch this to be hit with truth.

My other general question, is how is the Judge allowed to have his show on Fox News of all places?

It seems odd that they give this man air time. Isn't his message dangerous to the status quo? It's perplexing... How can his show be so pro-freedom and constitution (and really Pro Ron Paul), when the shows surrounding it are the direct opposite. Just makes me wonder...

I know what you mean. You hardly ever see anything "Pro-Paul" on FoxNews. It's usually to make him look like an idiot. Ron paul is a good guy....if i might add

What if green meant stop and red meant go? I'm supposed to be impressed by some stupid assed "What If" montage? Please!

Look, Ron Paul's political positions have not changed one iota since his previous run for the White House and neither, Fox News and/or Judge Napolitano made any effort to support him then, so why now?

How about this for a "What If" scenario; What If, the republican establishment has come to the realization that they cannot win the upcoming election by professing their typical right wing ideology of "trickle down economics." What If, they've adopted a new strategy of attempting to convince the voting public that both political parties are one in the same in hopes of persuading voters to elect Ron Paul, who is after all running as a republican and viewed by them as their last hope for seeing a conservative elected as POTUS in 2012.

What If, the voting public buys this line of crap and actually elects Ron Paul? Well I think that NoHierarchy answered that question pretty well in his/her post in this thread and I agree that Ron Paul's policies, if enacted, would be extremely destructive in almost every aspect.

I used to be worried that when the Tea Party adopted the slogan of "Taking Their Country Back," they meant taking us back some 200 years, boy was I naive. Now I find out that, based on some recent republican legislative proposals in New Hampshire, they actually want to take us back to the year 1215 and the Magna Carta, go figure! It's as if they have some kind of a vendetta against progress.

While I agree that in some areas, government seems to react the same, regardless of which party is in power, the actual difference between the two are as different as day & night and IMO anyone who can't see that difference is either deaf, dumb & blind or they are the willful participants of a movement based on pure ignorance and hypocrisy.

My big question to the right wing conservatives is this; What if the American public wakes up and demands an end to right wing conservative policies and the end of a government that answers to special interest over "people?" What If, Obama wins re-election?

reply to post by freedom12


You know how annoying it is to sit and try to read any thread where someone is only concerned about stars and flags? If that's what your after then you have some serious problems. There is an alert button where you can at any time notify mods of things going on, no need to be a mod yourself. To the op thanks for this info I will digest and continue reading the replies in this thread, S & F for you. And yes the judge has been around on fox for quite a while. He seems to be an honourable man and too bad there wasn't many more like him.

I showed this to my boyfriend and his immediate reaction:
"There just telling us what they're already doing."
He wasn't excited or happy at all!
Really rained on my parade.
But I told him I'd add his thoughts to the thread.

Originally posted by kkrattiger
I showed this to my boyfriend and his immediate reaction:
"There just telling us what they're already doing."
He wasn't excited or happy at all!
Really rained on my parade.
But I told him I'd add his thoughts to the thread.

So he's not happy that millions of people had the opportunity to have that 'click' happen inside their head nor the fact that 'somebody' on 'mainstream media' is covering concepts like this?

Correct me if I'm wrong but he sounds like a negative person to me.

Again, ATS's top poster military shills who spew the faux-2 party system talking points are absent from this thread. They cannot accept that the U.S. is not a democracy or a republic, but a corporatist state. They believe the political theater that one party is to blame, or if we can just get Obama out of office things will change.

We as citizens have zero control over this government-corporation fusion when playing by its rules in a false reality perpetuated by corporate media. We are worse than slaves, we actually are manipulated and tricked into thinking we have freedom and influence over the government.. when we do not. Even less freedom than a slave who actually knows what they are.

Never have I seen the MSM act the way they are with Ron Paul even my local radio station talks right around him as if he is not even in the run, though he has been in 3rd and 2nd place in the polls. Madness

reply to post by WiZKiD111


It has already been proven in Iowa that the GOP was giving mittens (mitrom)votes that were cast for other runners. The esablishment want Mitt R to be the winner the people need to rise up and show that he is not the peoples choice.

They give him airtime because viewers turn to the internet no matter what. That way fox can keep a foot in your door instead of being disregarded as a real newssource as if it was internet in 1999. At least he is not saying that the elections might be rigged the internet pulls no punches there either.

Nice rendition of Ron Pauls "What If" speech he gave to the house in 2009. For those who have not heard it, here is the text:

“Madame Speaker, I have a few questions for my colleagues. What if our foreign policy of the past century is deeply flawed and has not served our national security interests? What if we wake up one day and realize that the terrorist threat is a predictable consequence of our meddling in the affairs of others and has nothing to do with us being free and prosperous? What if propping up oppressive regimes in the Middle East endangers both the United States and Israel? What if occupying countries like Iraq and Afghanistan and bombing Pakistan is directly related to the hatred directed toward us? What if some day it dawns on us that losing over 5,000 American military personnel in the Middle East since 9/11 is not a fair trade off for the loss of nearly 3,000 American citizens no matter how many Iraqi, Pakistani, or Afghan people are killed or displaced? What if we finally decide that torture even if called “enhanced interrogation technique” is self destructive and produces no useful information and that contracting it out to a third world nation is just as evil? What if it is finally realized that war and military spending is always destructive to the economy? What if all war time spending is paid for through the deceitful and evil process of inflating and borrowing? What if we finally see that war time conditions always undermine personal liberty? What if conservatives who preach small government wake up and realize that our interventionist foreign policy provides the greatest incentive to expand the government? What if conservatives understood once again that their only logical position is to reject military intervention and managing an empire throughout the world? What if the American people woke up and understood that the official reasons for going to war are almost always based on lies and promoted by war propaganda in order to serve special interests? What if we as a nation came to realize that the quest for empire eventually destroys all great nations? What if Obama has no intention of leaving Iraq? What if a military draft is being planned for, for the wars that will spread if our foreign policy is not changed? What if the American people learn the truth that our foreign policy has nothing to do with national security and that it never changes from one administration to the next? What if war and preparation for war is a racket serving the special interests? What if president Obama is completely wrong about Afghanistan and it turns out worse than Iraq and Vietnam - put together? What if Christianity actually teaches peace and not preventive wars of aggression? What if diplomacy is found to be superior to bombs and bribes in protecting America? What happens if my concerns are completely unfounded? Nothing. But what happens if my concerns are justified and ignored? Nothing good.”
~ U.S. congressman Ron Paul before the United States House of Representatives (2/12/2009)

reply to post by WiZKiD111


This is personally one of the greatest videos ive ever seen fox run. Go judge!

reply to post by snowcrash911


Beck was actually onto some solid connections, and took alot of Alex Jones material, but then instead of seeing the big picture, he said "George Soros is behind it all" and never looked at the rest of the new world order henchmen, all the same, I think he got fired for the FEMA camps thing he did, and instead of showing real ones he said "I made a mistake" and then he was gone within a month, even though he really did find them, Fox i'm guessing forced him to retract, because the Feds did the same thing to Jesse Ventura's episode about FEMA Camps, they didn't allow it to re-air and it only aired once. You can download it on torrentz.eu though, I highly encourage it. Conspiracy Theory Season 2

reply to post by NoHierarchy


You fail to understand we are not in a truely "free market" right now, and when markets were truely free we had unprecedented growth and prosperity. from 1825-1913 we had roughly 10% annual growth, and then the FEDERAL RESERVE was created, and it began its process of creating financial bubbles and picking winners and losers, and creating too-big-to-fail, and along with the "free/managed trade" acts, allowed corporations to run rampant through other countries, stealing natural resources and wealth from developing nations, including our own. And advocates of a truely free market understand we need some regulation, like glass-steagal, obviously we would NOT let the banks take over society like the LBJ and FDR crowd have allowed to happen, along with almost every other president since 1913 EXCEPT JFK! You have ignored what has worked and what has not worked, and attempted to simplify everything with absolutes. A Ron Paul esque economy would have just enough regulation in place to protect us from the harms of the federal reserve and her subsidiary loan shark corporations, and would remove enough USELESS RED TAPE that would allow us to thrive once more. Once we got off the gold standard and allowed the Fed to print and distribute money, our economy went to hell in a handbasket. We need to back our currencies with gold and silver and other precious metals, perhaps diamonds as well.