The oil-change conspiracy

reply to post by Pokoia


Long time mechanic here. Motor oil breaks down after many miles usage, one thing one must worry about is viscosity, the oil's ability to suspend carbon and other impurities. Remember, for the first few minutes upon a cold start, the oil does not run through the filter, it goes through a bypass, being to thick to pass through the filter. I change my own oil, and filter, every 5000 miles. I take the used oil to the recycler, it is used to make grease and other products, the filter is completely drained, cleaned with kerosene, and thrown away.
I use only Rotella 15-40 motor oil, got used to it when I drove semi.
My engine has near 300,000 miles on her, a 350 V-8 running HHO, which keeps it carbon and sulphur free, and I like running green, and saving gas anyway. An oil/filter change costs a whole lot less than a rebuilt engine, it is no scam.

reply to post by Pokoia


I believe similiar to any oil the viscosity breaks down after a while and lubrication tends to loose it's oomphh...I personally do not change my oil every 5,000 miles however someone who never checks their oil should be changing it or atleast having some check it on occassion. I would only question why is fresh oil so clean when you put it in and clearly used oil has a much grittier feeling to it...this grit whether it be metal deposits does wear on your internal components...filters are a hole other issue...

Governments pushed the constant oil change recommendations.

Having your citizens getting rid of millions of gallons of used motor oil subsidized Commercial shipping. Your used motor oil was reprocessed and turned into marine grade diesel.

It's a simple process of heating the used oil to a certain temperature and pulling off the desired product at the correct level in the tank you're heating.


Many places now CHARGE you for them to take your used motor oil. They process it and SELL it as marine grade diesel. They are getting double paid.

reply to post by Pokoia


Well actually the conversion is 1 km = .62137 mi. so as the story goes...100,000 km would be exactly 62,137.119 mi.

Just thought I would share that little tid bit.

Also confusing to me is how your intervals are so far apart...if the manufacturer recommends changing your oil every 2500 mi (or 4,023 km) why are you doing it every 62,000 miles?

reply to post by Pokoia


I went 64,000 miles without changing my oil once. The engine blew up. How could you go that long without killing your engine?

With proper filtration, you can extend the interval between oil changes drastically, but without testing an oil sample you will not know when an oil change is needed.
Oil does not break down over time, it gets contaminated by metals from the engine, fuel, and potentially, particles from the atmosphere. All but the fuel can be removed with proper filtration. There are devices to remove the fuel contaminants, and large trucks sometimes have them.
Oil can last the life of the vehicle, believe it or not. You will want synthetics if you have a state of the art filtration system, like a dual bypass system for example.
Most quality oils will do fine under typical driving conditions, but the synthetics can handle an overheating engine much better than petroleum based oils. So, make sure wifey has synthetic oil.

A slight aside here - I was once a member of an organisation - We had a very large and old building which was heated by using old oil which we collected from garages. We filtered the oil and it was gently run along a channel into a furnace - Water though was also gently dripped onto this channel causing a controled explosive flame in the furnace. I am not very technically minded but know this was a method also used in the 1940s

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Pokoia

 

Long time mechanic here. Motor oil breaks down after many miles usage, one thing one must worry about is viscosity, the oil's ability to suspend carbon and other impurities. Remember, for the first few minutes upon a cold start, the oil does not run through the filter, it goes through a bypass, being to thick to pass through the filter. I change my own oil, and filter, every 5000 miles. I take the used oil to the recycler, it is used to make grease and other products, the filter is completely drained, cleaned with kerosene, and thrown away.
I use only Rotella 15-40 motor oil, got used to it when I drove semi.
My engine has near 300,000 miles on her, a 350 V-8 running HHO, which keeps it carbon and sulphur free, and I like running green, and saving gas anyway. An oil/filter change costs a whole lot less than a rebuilt engine, it is no scam.

I see you use a HHO system. Did you build it yourself?
What specs does it have, Litres per minute, Amps, number of plates etc?

BTW I was told about this oil scam by an Shell chemist, years ago.
I did not believe him for years. I did some searching on the web ten years later and decided to test it.

reply to post by jerryznv


Because I do most of the small jobs myself, including Oil change.
I hate it because I think its a messy business.

But also because I once tried to give it a try, after hearing of this scam.
I do flush the engine clean before adding the new oil and additive.

Originally posted by Pervius
Governments pushed the constant oil change recommendations.

Having your citizens getting rid of millions of gallons of used motor oil subsidized Commercial shipping. Your used motor oil was reprocessed and turned into marine grade diesel.

It's a simple process of heating the used oil to a certain temperature and pulling off the desired product at the correct level in the tank you're heating.


Many places now CHARGE you for them to take your used motor oil. They process it and SELL it as marine grade diesel. They are getting double paid.

I know this to be true.
I also know this marine grade diesel is not very clean and one of the biggest sources of the dioxine in the seas.

Originally posted by Pokoia
reply to post by jerryznv

 

Because I do most of the small jobs myself, including Oil change.
I hate it because I think its a messy business.

But also because I once tried to give it a try, after hearing of this scam.
I do flush the engine clean before adding the new oil and additive.

I guess I am just in amazement that your car is still running...seems like a long time in between changes.

I use synthetic and go about 5,000 miles in between changes...but I wouldn't push it much past that!

For $29.99 I take mine to pennzoil and get the filter and oil changed without having to do anything but drink coffee and wait about 15 minutes. Money well spent in my opinion!

reply to post by jerryznv


Not only this car, a Ford Focus diesel, but also the three cars before.
Without engine problems and wit a steady good mileage.

Originally posted by artistpoet
A slight aside here - I was once a member of an organisation - We had a very large and old building which was heated by using old oil which we collected from garages. We filtered the oil and it was gently run along a channel into a furnace - Water though was also gently dripped onto this channel causing a controled explosive flame in the furnace. I am not very technically minded but know this was a method also used in the 1940s

A course it burns but not very clean.
That said it was probably a while ago, no one cared about environment back then.

Originally posted by Pokoia

Originally posted by artistpoet
A slight aside here - I was once a member of an organisation - We had a very large and old building which was heated by using old oil which we collected from garages. We filtered the oil and it was gently run along a channel into a furnace - Water though was also gently dripped onto this channel causing a controled explosive flame in the furnace. I am not very technically minded but know this was a method also used in the 1940s

A course it burns but not very clean.
That said it was probably a while ago, no one cared about environment back then.

True - the most dreaded job was cleaning the damn thing

If you drive econo box's your theory is probably sound. However I drive a a vehicle with a high performance 6.2L engine. If I changed my out according to your specs I would risk catastrophic failure. Throwing a rod and dumping 9 liters of oil and 8 of coolant on the road would counter act my changing oil every 10000 km's and properly disposing it. Royal Purple all the way.

reply to post by Pokoia


Yes, better and bigger oil filters and some magnets will go a long way toward making your engine work a long time.
Viscosity does not really matter in your subaru as much as it does in a formula 1 car.
Most just do not understand this.

reply to post by Pokoia



It has much to do with how the car is driven and as to why the factory oil change interval varies between severe service and normal service.

People often forget that the Oil's purpose is not Only for lubrication but is also used to aid in cooling the engine as well. The oil carries heat away from components as well as lubricating them.

But how the car is driven is where the factory severe and normal oil change intervals come into play.

An engine that sits at low rpm as in stop and go traffic doesn't circulate the oil and or coolant as frequently as an engine running at constant highway speeds for example.

This stop and go type of low speed driving is what leads to hot spots in the engine which places a lot of stress upon the oil circulating through these extremely hot areas of the engine.

All oils have a flash point and as oil circulates through the hot spots the oil often reaches these temps and/or severely cooks the oil leading to burnt deposits.

Also as to why Synthetics perform better. Because they are formulated with the necessary components chemically on a molecular level whereas in non synthetics they are simply additives which due to their being suspended in the oil tend to burn off quicker.

The problem that this creates is the viscosity changes which is the worse thing for an engine oil designed to function with a certain psi of oil pressure....if the oil changes viscosity then it also is circulated throughout the engine less effectively leading to poor lubrication upon start up to the top of the engine leading to metal upon metal contact leading to component failure.

This is why the old paradigm used the 3-5000 mile interval for normal oil due to the characteristic breakdown of the additives with normal use and subsequent viscosity changes.

And also why synthetics can extend the oil change interval due to the nature of their construction suffering less burn off of the crucial components in the oil necessary for the engine over time.

There was a great test of an oil analysis test where a Camaro with the LS2 V8 was run with the same Mobil-1 oil which was lab tested every 1000 miles for 18000 miles before the viscosity changed to the point of no return rendering it unusable.

I found it !

Here's a link to the article "Synthetic Oil Life Study"

neptune.spacebears.com...


Peace

Hi guys. I work in an independent tribology lab and test used oil all day long.

The mfg recommendations on oil changes may err on the safe side and with today's additive technologies most people can go longer than the recommended drain interval in their cars without serious problem. However, oil does indeed have a useful service life and after a while, the unchanged and excessively-used oil will present serious issues for the engine's components.

Combustion of fuel creates nasty by-products which contaminate the oil. Acids and oxidation products accumulate in the oil and when your oil's alkaline reserve is depleted, the acid contamination increases extremely rapidly. Multi-grade oils (10W30, 5W20, etc.) eventually experience additive shear (breaking the hydrocarbon molecule), resulting in a physical change in the viscosity, often dropping it down a full SAE grade. Overused oil will either thicken (from oxidation) or thin (from additive shear) and contain highly corrosive compounds which will begin to deteriorate nearly every engine component it comes into contact with. In addition, the oil constantly ingests and accumulates external contaminants such as dirt and moisture which cause abrasive wear. Motor oils in gas engines that remain unchanged for 20K or 30K miles are engine destroyers.

Oil drain intervals can be increased for almost everyone, but determining the correct point depends on the vehicle, how it's operated and the oil type in use. It can only be reliably determined through oil analysis. Keep in mind that not changing oils at the mfg's recommended interval often renders any warranty null & void.

Side note: since someone brought up synthetics, keep in mind that "synthetic oil" is a marketing term only, and four different oil and blends are commonly sold as "synthetic", with only one variety being truly synthetic: those made solely of POE (polyolester). The only motor oils I know of that are true synthetics are Mobil 1 and Royal Purple. No matter what oils you use, the best thing to do is keep changing your oil at regular intervals.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

I believe Amsoil is a true synthetic also.
Very good post.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Thanks for your post.

So you are totally against my "method".
I am doing this now for years, without any adverse effects.
How can this be ?