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The Priest who changed the history

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posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 08:50 AM
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Hitler being saved may have well been the factor that ensured that Germany lost the war, Despite all the rhetoric on here you have to look at the man, he was intelligent and charismatic a leader that pulled his country out of total financial ruin and restored pride to his nation. But he was also highly unstable and believed in his own ability.

The background that allowed him to come to power was already in place, the distrust of the Jews was already in place and he just used that, he didn't create it, others within the Nazi party were the propagandists. Had Hitler died when he was 4 years old would not of stopped the Nazi party coming to power and if it had another leader, one who was more military schooled, had more insight then the outcome of the second world war would of likely been very different.

Hitler made many mistakes, he had a treaty with Russia and an agreement with them that once he captured Poland he would divide the country between them, Hitler reneged on this deal and so drew Russia into conflict forcing Germany to fight their war on two fronts, against Russia and against Britain, had he not done so, and had just concentrated on conquering western Europe first, then turned his attentions towards Russia (who he really hated) then he would of won the Battle of Britain and Europe would be speaking German now, he wouldn't listen to his generals, he wanted glory victories, wanted Stalingrad. Should he of died at a young age and a true military leader had taken lead of the Nazi party they most probably have won




posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 09:02 AM
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reply to post by PrinceDreamer
 


Excellent point!
Their weapons back when were first class, in fact modern weaponry has learned alot from German/Austrian gunsmiths.
Superior equipment and a good battle plan plus many healthy sets o boots could have done something serious.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by g146541
 


I disagree. Data shows what truth is. And data comes out. One way or another.
edit on 7-1-2012 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-1-2012 by Gorman91 because: le spelling



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


If this is a last word argument, I yield to you.
All I need to do is prove that victors write history.
And I think WE did that quite well.
Last word to you.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by g146541
 


Perhaps in hindsight, do they?

Do victors truly write history always?

What if you win the peace?



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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It is NOT the child who creates latter known history.

It is the CIRCUMSTANCES that led to that historical event.

For every innocent child drown, there will be another Hitler to seize the opportunities then to create that horrific history, either in great failure or awesome success, due to his management of his environment factors.

What had happened, already happened and can no longer be altered, leaving only lessons to be learnt in order to progress and evolve.

Can we say that with today's failures, we deem mankind has no hope, thus we destroy all children or do not give birth anymore?

No. We can't. No mortal can predict the future. With hindsight, we had read of the historical evidences of excesses, and yet there is also progress from those mistakes. It is evident that mankind is capable of change to evolve. Thus, we cannot doom future generations by presuming and assuming that they will make the mistakes we made. or judge the next generations based upon our own failures or perceptions.

Remember always - we cannot change the past, but we can still change our future and tomorrows, if not for ourselves, it will be for the innocent next generations.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 



we cannot change the past, but we can still change our future and tomorrows, if not for ourselves, it will be for the innocent next generations.
We can change certain things from the past,right now in the present we live in,and you know what I am talking about.




posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 04:51 PM
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If it was me and I knew what he'd become, I'd still save him.

Life is life no matter what and honestly, once he came out of WW1 as bitter as he was, he ended up with the wrong crowd, found himself in jail, became even more bitter and then mingled with more people who did him harm and turned him into the monster we know him as.

Sure, he may have already been a psycho from birth but he was still nurtured further and he could have been steered away from that path.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by curious7
 



Sure, he may have already been a psycho from birth
When a crowd applaud you think you're strong but when everyone applaud you ...



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 05:31 PM
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Here's a thought - if we had the ability to see future events, would we even bother sitting around waiting for someone like hitler to fall into an icy lake...or for some other unfortunate accident to befall him?

Nowadays, suspects can be arrested and detained for long periods of time...perhaps even indefinitely based on criminal profiles and accusations where there's little or no evidence. I don't think hitler would have made it as far as 4 years old if people had the foresight to see what he would become. Would it be right to put someone down if we had the ability to predict how they'd develop in later life?

Kinda makes me wonder if such foresight would be a good thing, the ability to see future events, you think it'd be possible for people to steer someone like hitler in a particular direction and stop him becoming what the future says he would become? Personally i don't think the future is written, anyway - If we could see into the future and see what someone was going to become or do, then we were able to change their path...then our foresight into the future was possibly false, the only way we'd know it to be true would be to let it take its course...how would we even know if such precognative visions were real and not some sort of fabrication of the mind?

Cool thread, cheers.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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It's interesting a two boys. They grow up. One becomes a priest and the person many relate with the devil.

What if this had to happen? As many time travel stories will say. Events that already happened on Earth need to happen as they did. Otherwise worse things could happen, if you try to prevent these things. Well, what's worse than Hitler? Who knows. But I'm sure we will see a worse Hitler in this generation. Extreme times calls for extreme leaders. A few come close but none as bad as him.

Makes for a great sci-fi story.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by jewells
 


Question, would you be reading this on this subjuct matter, if he died, no, no corperal in first ww, no build-up to the events of WW ll, causing millions dead, but your mother and Father would never have met to have you. also what type of timeline would replace that event of the second world war, tens of thousands of babys that where never ment to be born, became Doctors, Lawyers, could we be walking on Mars, or have no muscle cars to drive. it come down to what event, would replace it.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 06:50 PM
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Hitler was no more demonic than the American government. Hitler has a bad rap due to the 6 million jewish deaths, hardly mentioned are the other 6 million non jews. Stalin was far worse than Hitler ever was, yet America embraced Stalin and gave refuge to many Nazi scientists and bankers. There is no wonder America is the new Nazi!



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


Yes russia had camps... the german POW's ended up in Siberia
'Officially, the Soviet Union took 2,388,000 Germans and 1,097,000 combatants from other European nations as prisoners during and just after the war. More than a million of the German captives died'

Not to mention the prisoners from their own people.
though you're right that they killed a lot of nazis!
-----------------
No Hitler did not hate japan, the japanese were declared spiritual aryans... well maby he hated asians as they are not blonde and blue eyed but that is not official.
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and if you think that the U.S. would be left alone with a nazi victory in europe you are wrong. If the nazis had won they would have controlled Europe, Africa, the middle-east, and russia. Then you would have the Japanese that would now have the full might of the third reich behind them. that combined with the superior nazi technology is an axis world domination.


im sorry but World war II runs deep in the family so when i see something wrong (in my eyes) I must respond.

ps. I would have killed hitler, no mercy him ..
PS. A british soldier could have killed him in world war I but spared his life.



edit on 7-1-2012 by DeusImperator because: ps



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by DeusImperator
 





im sorry but World war II runs deep in the family so when i see something wrong (in my eyes) I must respond.


I just cannot fathom that as possible. Hitler could have taken Russia and Europe if done right. And Africa would naturally follow. I do not see how they could take America. The Japanese never really desired, also, to conquer America. Simply to control the pacific. Though undoubtedly they would get greedy and probably go for South America. Germany too possibly.

But not America. Not at that time. It's simply circumstantial. Mainland Asia, Africa, and South America were weak at those times. Russia was strong, but could have fallen under the right pressure. But America was just too big and too vast. Canada and Mexico too.

In time, America would re-establish herself. And at the end of the day, she WOULD still get the bomb first, because Hitler was known to be far behind

With the bomb, and paranoia, I feel America would become a fascist state in all likelihood. But it would win. In time, mind you. Time that in all likelihood would last a decade.

We would destroy half the world in a nuclear holocaust. But we would win. Maybe we wouldn't enter Europe. Maybe we wouldn't give a damn about mainland Asia. But we would nuke Japan, and Some of Europe, and ultimately force them off.

It would be devastating. No freedom would be left. And in many ways, this would be the world of 1984. But at the end of the day, we would endure, and perhaps even win.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 04:19 AM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


without the continious bombing raids from the allies the german industry would be booming. instead of a half dead luftwaffe you would have an army of jet fighters that would defend the skies against everything. And there would be a lot of them. and this time no stop in britain because they would be flying all the way from america to europe. thats a long way. a long way to be intercepted by superior faster airplaines and guided missles and what not.

The U.S. will run out of bombers very fast. And after a while the nazis would get a bomb too because their facilities would no longer be bombed and then nuke the # out of america with missles or jet fighters. Or maby not... it luckily never happened. But if the nazis won the war in Europe they would have gotten everything. If they can conquer russia they can surely conquer america.

or possibly America would have ended up like a vichy France puppet state, before or after being bombed into submission.

options - America nukes the world
- America becomes a puppet state
- America gets nuked into oblivion

As the nazis ultimately wanted world domination america HAS to fall under their controll, It might take time but they will eventually try and will continue to do so untill one side has been destroyed.

edit on 8-1-2012 by DeusImperator because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by DeusImperator
 





without the continious bombing raids from the allies the german industry would be booming. instead of a half dead luftwaffe you would have an army of jet fighters that would defend the skies against everything. And there would be a lot of them. and this time no stop in britain because they would be flying all the way from america to europe. thats a long way. a long way to be intercepted by superior faster airplaines and guided missles and what not.


Such would not be possible at first. Only missiles. Germany would have to spend years figuring out how to catch up in aircraft carrier technology.

America, with nuclear power, would have in time nuclear bombers. Able to fly across the Atlantic without any support craft.




The U.S. will run out of bombers very fast. And after a while the nazis would get a bomb too because their facilities would no longer be bombed and then nuke the # out of america with missles or jet fighters. Or maby not... it luckily never happened. But if the nazis won the war in Europe they would have gotten everything. If they can conquer russia they can surely conquer america.


Germany was ages behind America, and all of Germany's best moved to America. They would not have the bomb. In fact, after conquering Russia, they would probably be even more confused and have to start from ground zero because the Russian system would be based off the American one and they wouldn't know which is true or false. Meanwhile, America would already have the bomb while Germany was figuring out what was right and wrong with their system. And with that, we would obliterate their facility and erase it.




or possibly America would have ended up like a vichy France puppet state, before or after being bombed into submission.


I just don't see how a nation larger than Europe and with more people than anything Germany experienced (most armed) could be bombed into submission.




As the nazis ultimately wanted world domination america HAS to fall under their controll, It might take time but they will eventually try and will continue to do so untill one side has been destroyed.


They would get sucked into Asian land wars first and repeat our errors of the present day.

Don't forget they were involved with the Islamic-Jewish dilemma, and they helped create Saddam's Baath party. They would be stuck fighting there for decades....just like every one else who ever got involved there would.

Of course, at first they would control the Muslim world. But in time, they would have the same problems we had by trying to control them.

They would be troubled with all that, and in the meantime, America would be fighting in the pacific and making the bomb.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 03:35 AM
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Originally posted by PrinceDreamer
Hitler made many mistakes, he had a treaty with Russia and an agreement with them that once he captured Poland he would divide the country between them, Hitler reneged on this deal and so drew Russia into conflict...


Hitler did not renege on the treaty, though he did intend to, eventually, five years after the end of the war, had everything gone according to plan. Hitler was led to believe that if he attacked Russia, Britain would withdraw from the war...why did he believe that? Because that is what Britain led him to believe. Stalin, for his part, despite much prodding and poking, would not be drawn into conflict with Germany. Stalin received repeated, and highly detailed intelligence reports, that Germany were amassing an army but did nothing to prevent it.


Originally posted by PrinceDreamer
..forcing Germany to fight their war on two fronts, against Russia and against Britain, had he not done so, and had just concentrated on conquering western Europe first, then turned his attentions towards Russia (who he really hated) then he would of won the Battle of Britain and Europe would be speaking German now, he wouldn't listen to his generals, he wanted glory victories, wanted Stalingrad. Should he of died at a young age and a true military leader had taken lead of the Nazi party they most probably have won


Which brings me to the chief point about Hitler's leadership, he did have absolute control of Germany for a time, which was a mistake, his puppeteers mistake, their other fundamental mistake, was publising their objectives, so that while their own leader had not read the words ascribed to him, his opponent had.

Had someone failed to save Winston Churchill from drowning, the world today would be a much different place. In fact, had he not lived to do whatever it was that he did, I think we would have already destroyed the world by now.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
Germany was ages behind America, and all of Germany's best moved to America. They would not have the bomb. In fact, after conquering Russia, they would probably be even more confused and have to start from ground zero because the Russian system would be based off the American one and they wouldn't know which is true or false. Meanwhile, America would already have the bomb while Germany was figuring out what was right and wrong with their system. And with that, we would obliterate their facility and erase it.


Most of Germany's military technology came direct from the US. Both Ford and Standard Oil for example, gave the Nazis exclusive use of technological developments, such as four wheel drive and synthetic oil. Additionally, up until 1941, the Abwehr had extensive networks of spies who passed blue prints and other classified material which were transported by the many German merchant ships that were trading with Germany.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 03:43 AM
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reply to post by Omphale
 


The statement was in context to nuclear technology.

German military technology was, in general, half a century ahead of everyone else.

After the war, having nazi designs was like having all the gold in the world.




In nuclear technology, however, the Germans lagged.



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