Gun Rights could have prevented 9-11

Originally posted by Jubilee
Wow you have a minority group of very scary people. What is more scary gun-toting americans or the terrorists???
God bless America you need it!!!!!!

Actually terrorists if you must know, but they are probably nothing compared to 'enlightened' aussies.

Originally posted by JCMinJapan
�����.The Internet connects everyone like never before. You could not even talk on this forum if it was not for the world�����

Actually the world could not even talk on this forum if it was not for America. Small point but I think important.

Originally posted by helenheaven
well I wish America would butt out of the rest of the world

Me too!! No exceptions.

One million Americans have died in firearm homicides, suicides, and unintentional shootings since 1962.

That is the equivalent of 333 sept 11 attacks




source: (Fatal Firearm Injuries in the United States 1962-1994. Violence Surveillance Summary Series, No. 3, 1997; Deaths: Final Data for 1995- 1997, National Vital Statistics Report)

It's quite ironic that people that aren't US citizens are upset about Libertarian Party domestic policy when the only real foreign policy that the LP believes in is one of NON-interventionism. In other words, butting-out. If what really gets you about the US is how we're in the middle of the worlds business, the Libertarian Party is your friend!

The purpose of the main article this whole thing is about was to exemplify the reason why people should be allowed to carry guns, NOT to call for an armorment of the skies. As has been said, the airlines, even if it were up to them, wouldn't allow this. Mike Badnarik I'm sure understands that. But just imagine if a couple of people DID have guns on those planes, even if it was just a pilot.

Another fallacy being stated here is that the LP is calling for all US citizens to walk around with guns. This is also patently wrong. We merely want to be able to own a gun if we so choose. I personally don't own one, but want that option available. The LP isn't composed of a bunch of crazy anarchists. In fact, we believe in strict adherence to the rule of law.

Lastly, no it really doesn't matter what anyone outside of America thinks of our domestic policy. Imagine what someone from the UK or Australia would have to say to an American that questioned or called for the change in the domestic policy of their respective nations. The word arrogant would surely by used. I'm open to criticisms of the way we do things, but if you aren't a US citizen expect someone that is to call you on it. There's things about America you can't understand unless you live here, and visa-versa.

The terrorists hijacked domestic flights, not international ones. Even if Americans did carry weapons on international flights, they'd be subject to the law of that nation upon landing.

Originally posted by helenheaven
One million Americans have died in firearm homicides, suicides, and unintentional shootings since 1962.

That is the equivalent of 333 sept 11 attacks

neat stat...big whoop what�s your point?

my point is not self evident?

Originally posted by helenheaven
One million Americans have died in firearm homicides, suicides, and unintentional shootings since 1962.

That is the equivalent of 333 sept 11 attacks

How many people have lived during that time period? How many of those deaths are suicides, how many are homocides, and how many are accidents? Accidents happen, many more thousands die in auto accidents every year. Many, many people die in the US every year playing recreational sports. Should we outlaw cars and sports? Thousands of people kill themselves every year with razor blades, aspirin, or rope. Should we outlaw them too? True, we do have a problem with murder here, but the rates are only one or two people per hundred thousand more then other nations with stringent gun laws. A lot of murders that occur happen to people that put themselves in that position, drug dealers, criminals and the like. I think if you took a poll to find out if American's are scared of crime, very few would say yes. Wait they did take that poll! Most Americans don't live in fear of crime (page 212-215). Also in the first table of this PDF of the International Crime Victims Survey, you'll find that crime rates are lower in the US compared to a lot of the industrialized world.

So basically, that's a very misleading number.

it is not one or two more than nations with stringent gun laws...compared to asia it is 95 times higher

Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.

source:www.guncite.com...

had to edit to say this again: 95 times higher


[edit on 12-9-2004 by helenheaven]

certain changes in actions taken by the US gov't in the past could have prevented 9-11, thus the terrorists wouldn't even be terrorists. case closed. dfh out.

Originally posted by helenheaven
it is not one or two more than nations with stringent gun laws...compared to asia it is 95 times higher

Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.

source:www.guncite.com...

had to edit to say this again: 95 times higher


[edit on 12-9-2004 by helenheaven]

and your point is? do you think that people who are going to commit suicide will all of a sudden say; oh my no gun i guess i have a reason to live. do you think that all of a sudden the mugger is going to say oh my guess i can't carry my gun...jeez i guess i won't go mugging tonight...as i said your point is? eliminate those two catagories and we aren't even talking a top ten injury related death...more people accidentally suffocate.

now if you want a really interesting statistic it appears that NZ should get rid of cars....and put their kids in an american house with a gun in it....at least from the two stats it appears to be a safer place.

had to edit this...it's safer in an american gun owners house than your car.www.childstats.gov...


[edit on 12-9-2004 by keholmes]

yes...NZ has an atrocious record with suicide rates (very high), drownings road toll and also, very sadly, child abuse

these horrible statistics are hard to believe in such a civilised and beautiful & prosperous (mostly) country

these statistics do not take away from the actual point I have been endeavouring to make, which I think you actually agree with, which is

"Terrorism is a global issue and not related to USA only. The entire world should have a say in how to deal with the terrorist threat."

I just don't believe more gun toting people is the answer.

Originally posted by helenheaven
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"Terrorism is a global issue and not related to USA only. The entire world should have a say in how to deal with the terrorist threat."
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I would agree that terrorism is a global issue, but as usual America will be required to shoulder most of the load so what say the entire world should have�.should be viewed in that light.

Ill make this easy so gun nuts can understand.

Terrorists with knives + Unarmed passengers = chance for passengers to successfully fight back.

Terrorists with guns + Passengers with guns = everyone dead.

Now wouldnt it make more sense to make every cockpit door totally secure rather than have a bunch of rednecks packing heat in every plane?

Weve all seen the cases of air rage, can you imagine the carnage if one of these people were carrying a gun?

Ill make this easy so flyer can understand.

Terrorists with knifes + Armed passengers = Dead Terrorists.

Terrorists with guns + Passengers with guns = chance of everyone living except terrorists. At the least, the plane is not allowed to crash into a building. less people dead.

Okay, folks. This has gone from discussion to dissing and rants.

Thread closed.