Christians....I'm SICK of them

reply to post by IAMIAM

If there are only 'actions' alone void of good and evil, then surely you imply there is no such thing as 'sin', correct?

Please answer my question above directly with a yes or no reply. I ask respectfully that you CLEARLY display what belief you are rooted in.

The 'new age philosophia's' too are full of love and unity 'oneness' speak very sweet on the ears and yet snare many for they attempt to unroot the Children's spiritual Accountability for chosen deeds.

Everything is according to God's will.

There is ALLOWANCE of our Granted Will to inflict harm/evils, however those already in His Mansions of 'Heavens' do not endorse evil ever. The Christ was presented for GOOD reason upon this testing ground of souls.

reply to post by sacgamer25


It seems you're beginning to change your tune... Perhaps you've come to a realization?

Which is it now, the son of God... or God in the flesh?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

It seems you're beginning to change your tune... Perhaps you've come to a realization?

Which is it now, the son of God... or God in the flesh?

The only thing I know for certain is we all will be judged by him, no one can get to heaven without his blessing, and that he considered himself equal to God when it came to teaching and offering salvation. All prayers should be prayed in his name. Whatever he is more or less to me or anyone else simply does not matter to me.

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

It seems you're beginning to change your tune... Perhaps you've come to a realization?

Which is it now, the son of God... or God in the flesh?

The only thing I know for certain is we all will be judged by him, no one can get to heaven without his blessing, and that he considered himself equal to God when it came to teaching and offering salvation. All prayers should be prayed in his name. Whatever he is more or less to me or anyone else simply does not matter to me.

edit on 12-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

That answer i can deal with... Though i disagree to an extent

you're talking about this of course...

22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

God is the judge, not Jesus... though i believe God will judge us according to the example Jesus left...



12So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?

13Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

14If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

15For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

16Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

17If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.

reply to post by IAMIAM

I love it when you speak from the heart.
Brought tears to my eyes.
With Love, Your Brother

I always try and speak from the heart in all my posts.

I may fail in showing love through my words in some posts... but Jesus understands why I get angry..and is patient and forgiving...and is teaching me to be patient and forgiving as well.

He understands that I do not want souls lead away from His truth and grace He has delivered to us through His sufferings and death.

May we all come to a deeper understanding of His grace.. through a deeper understanding of the great sorrow and agony He suffered so that we could be made worthy of His promises.

In other words, what the Christian Bible says means nothing to me.

reply to post by autowrench
That shows through clearly by the fact that you can quote what it says, but you can't understand what it means.

Christ was many things, but he was not God.

You are incorrect. Jesus REPEATEDLY claims that HE IS GOD.

KJV© 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was , I am .

LUKE 19:44 They will demolish you – you and your children within your walls – and they will not leave within you one stone on top of another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation from God.”

KJV© JOHN 10:30 The Father and I are one.”

JOHN 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying , For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

JOHN 14:9 Jesus replied, “Have I been with you for so long, and you have not known me, Philip? The person who has seen me has seen the Father! How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you, I do not speak on my own initiative, but the Father residing in me performs his miraculous deeds. 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me, but if you do not believe me, believe because of the miraculous deeds themselves.

JOHN 20:26 Eight days later the disciples were again together in the house, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and examine my hands. Extend your hand and put it into my side. Do not continue in your unbelief, but believe.” 20:28 Thomas replied to him, “My Lord and my God!” 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are the people who have not seen and yet have believed.”

22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega,
the first and the last,
the beginning and the end!) 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star!”

JESUS' OWN NAME (YAHSHUA) MEANS "GOD IS SALVATION"
HE is also referred to as IMMANUEL which means GOD AMONG US.

OTHERS CONFESS JESUS IS GOD..........

JOHN 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. 1:2 The Word was with God in the beginning. 1:3 All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created.1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of mankind. 1:5 And the light shines on in the darkness, but the darkness has not mastered it.

KJV© 1 TIMOTHY 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

TITUS 2:13 as we wait for the happy fulfillment of our hope in the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

GOD THE FATHER SAYS OF JESUS THE SON..........

HEBREWS 1:8 but of the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,

and a righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom.

1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness.

So God, your God, has anointed you over your companions with the oil of rejoicing.”

JESUS' ENEMIES ACCUSE HIM OF BLASPHEMY (claiming to be GOD)...........


KJV© 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason , saying , Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

KJV© 7:48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven . 7:49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

Christ tried to educate an ignorant people, and somehow I know a little of how he must have felt.

Wow. That is truely a self righteous statement of epic proportions !

Christ even told everyone they was a God, but they refused to believe him then, just as they do now.
"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" (John 10:34)

The words quoted by Jesus in John 10:34 are from Psalm 82:6. The pertinent section reads as follows:

I said, "You are gods,
And all of you are sons of the Most High.
Nevertheless you will die like men
And fall like any one of the princes."

In the immediate context, the "sons of the Most High" are said to judge, albeit unjustly (v. 2). There is probable Biblical precedent for calling human judges "gods" (Exodus 22:8, 9; Judges 5:8,9). The judges were "gods" in the sense that the "word of God came" to them as a Divine commission to perform a duty on earth that ultimately belongs only to God.

reply to post by autowrench

There are two important points to raise when considering why Jesus quotes this particular Psalm in His defense: 1) The Jews base their charge of blasphemy on what they see as Jesus' self-proclamation of Deity: "You being a man make yourself out to be God" (v. 33); and 2) Jesus' use of Psalm 82 must be consistent with the overall answer that Jesus is giving the Jews to their challenge to say "plainly" whether He is the Messiah (v. 24).
Regarding the first point, we may say that Jesus' use of Psalm 82 refutes the foundation of the Jews' accusation. The judges in Psalm 82 do not "make themselves" gods, but rather the divine title is given to them by God, on the basis of their commission ("to whom the Word of God came."). In affirming that He is the Messiah, Jesus uses this general principle to declare that His divine title ("the Son of God") was not of His own proclamation, but comes as the result of the Father's commission ("sanctified and sent into the World;" cf., Mark 1:11; Luke3:22).

Regarding the second point, Jesus cannot be simply using an ad hominem argument to evade the charge of blasphemy because both before and after verses 34 - 36, He is claiming far more than merely being "a god" in the sense the Judges were "gods." The judges in Psalm 82 are not said to grant eternal life to their followers, nor to be equal to the Father in their power to hold them fast. If Jesus were making an ad hominem argument, He would be essentially saying, "You don't know your own Scriptures - I am simply calling myself 'the Son of God' in the same way God calls the judges in Psalm 82 'gods' and 'sons of the Most High.'" The Jews could simply respond, "We know what God called the judges - but you are not claiming to be 'a god' like the judges - you are claiming to be far more than they! You have claimed a blasphemous unity with God unlike any exampled in our Scriptures, let alone Psalm 82!"

The same can be said of Jesus' title, "Son of God." If Jesus meant to say that His divine title is less than the judges' title (that is, that 'Son of God' is a less exalted title than "a god"), the Jews could rightly reject His answer as equivocation. Jesus is defending His statements prior to verse 34. Thus, "Son of God" must be viewed as meaning the same thing as One who grants eternal life, who holds His sheep in a grip as powerful as His Father's, and who is One with the Father. Indeed, Jesus knew well what the Jews would make of this title - the Jews had accused Him before of using this title to make Himself "equal" with God (5:18). Jesus' subsequent statement, which again repeats His claim to profound unity with His Father, and which the Jews understand as confirming their accusation, makes clear that Jesus is using Psalm 82 to establish the Biblical basis for the exclusive claims He is making.

There is, of course, no "Biblical basis" in the OT for the specific divine title, "The Son of God," nor for the specific claims Jesus is making for Himself. The judges of Psalm 82 are called "gods" on far less merit than Jesus. Jesus is using Psalm 82 to establish a general principle - namely, that it is not blasphemous for one with a divine commission to be called by a divine title. Having established this point beyond dispute ("the Scripture cannot be broken"), He then establishes the basis for His unique divine title in His correspondingly higher divine commission ("whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world"). Jesus' title and claims are, therefore, included within the general principle, and He cannot legitimately be accused of blasphemy.

The Argument in Context

The Jews have asked Jesus to plainly say if He is the Messiah. We may summarize His response as follows:"You should already know the answer to this question: My words and my works tell you plainly who I am. The reason you don't know who I am is because you do not believe. My sheep hear my voice and know me, but you are not my sheep. I grant eternal life to my sheep, and no one can snatch from my hand those that the Father gives me. My Father is greater than all and no one can snatch my sheep from my Father's hand - my Father and I are One!"At this point, the Jews understand that Jesus is making exclusive claims of equality with God, which (unless true!) are blasphemous. Jesus asks which works He has done that warrant the charge of blasphemy. The Jews reply that they are not stoning Him for His works, but for the words He has just spoken. Jesus replies as follows:

"The Scripture says that God calls the judges in Psalm 82 'gods' on the basis of their divine commission. Thus, since the Scripture cannot be wrong, it is not blasphemy for one with a divine commission to have a divine title.

I just find it difficult to believe that people actually worship a man as God, based on what a book whose authenticity is in question anyway.
Are you aware of a Roman Family named Piso? And did you know Constantine saw himself as God on Earth, as did many other leaders in those days? Research that book you set so much stock in, don't just take it as literal truth. For many Christians, to question the description of Jesus' birth as related in the Bible is unthinkable. They believe that the Bible is the "word of God", an infallible record of the Almighty God's influence on his creation, and therefore to be taken at face value. However, a careful study of the nativity narratives of Matthew and Luke indicate that the supposedly unerring "word of God" is full of contradictions and inventions. The most plausible conclusion is that the familiar Christmas stories in Matthew and Luke are religious myths, awkwardly grafted onto an earlier non-miraculous tradition about Jesus' birth.

In ancient times it was often claimed that important people had miraculous births. Plato was said to have been born by the union of the god Apollo with his mother. Likewise, Alexander the Great was said to have been conceived when a thunderbolt fell from heaven and made his mother Olympias pregnant before her marriage to Philip of Macedon. In the book of Genesis we read that sons of gods had intercourse with women to produce heroes (Gen. 6:4). Even the recently discovered Dead Sea Scrolls tell of the miraculous birth of Noah and how his father Lamech was suspicious that his wife had been made pregnant by an angel. Also the writings of Philo of Alexandria, who was born about 20 B.C., contain evidence that some Jews of the period were speculating about miraculous births of religious heroes. Philo relates how Hebrew notables such as Isaac and Samuel were conceived by barren women by the intervention of the divine Spirit.

Let us consider Mithra, a very good candidate for an old fashioned plagiarism........

Mithra, Sungod of Persia

The story of Mithra precedes the Christian fable by at least 600 years. According to Wheless, the cult of Mithra was, shortly before the Christian era, "the most popular and widely spread 'Pagan' religion of the times."

Mithra has the following in common with the Christ character: Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or disciples.
He performed miracles.
He was buried in a tomb.
After three days he rose again.
His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."

source

See what I mean?

There are other "saviours" at the site, see for yourself:
The Origins of Christianity

One would expect to find Jesus being sent to all of mankind if he was God,

reply to post by autowrench
Are you claiming to expect to know what the Creator of the universe would (or should) do?
The Word of GOD says " Who can know the mind of GOD?"

May I suggest you read Job chapters 38-41.

Can you dispute me?

Yes. Gladly. So far you have demonstrated your complete lack of knowledge concerning the truth of the Word of GOD. You have admitted your total disbelief in the scriptures - yet you claim to know them better than most.


2 Peter 2:1 But false prophets arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. These false teachers will infiltrate your midst with destructive heresies, even to the point of denying the Master who bought them. As a result, they will bring swift destruction on themselves. 2:2 And many will follow their debauched lifestyles. Because of these false teachers, the way of truth will be slandered. 2:3 And in their greed they will exploit you with deceptive words. Their condemnation pronounced long ago is not sitting idly by; their destruction is not asleep.

reply to post by autowrench
ALL PROPHECY ABOUT JESUS' COMING IS 100% FULFILLED.

When I stated this fact I was talking about Jesus as the coming Messiah. (up to His ascension into heaven).

Care to define this "Holy Spirit?" I have had many arguments and debates over this matter, and most agree that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Creator(ess), so it indwells in every human being.

You are incorrect. I will not define Him for you. Let the Word of GOD define the Holy Spirit to you.
The Holy Spirit does not dwell in every human being. The Holy Spirit is a Gift to those who accept Jesus Christ as their GOD, King, Saviour and friend. He is their "seal" that they are saved.

So, in essence a man or two was inspired to author a book, is that what you are saying?

You are incorrect. The Bible was written by about 40 different authors over a span of about 1900 years. I have already given you this information.

We need only read the Gospels to attest to the fact of Jesus' genuine humanity.

You are incorrect. Jesus is both GOD AND HUMAN AT THE SAME TIME.

In the OT, God is not shy to say "I am God." He said this a lot. So if Jesus is God, then how come he never said it once, like the God of the OT? This is not a coincidence.

You are incorrect. As previously explained (and proven from scripture), Jesus repeatedly says that HE IS GOD.

So, if Jesus is "The Son of Man," then he could not be, "The Son of God."

You are incorrect. Scripture testifies many times to Jesus as the son of GOD.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life"

1 John 4:9: "In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him."

1 John 4:10 God "sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins"

John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him" (also declaring Jesus as GOD)

John 3:18 "He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God"

Hebrews 1:2 God has "spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things"

Luke 3:22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven, “You are my one dear Son; in you I take great delight.”

Luke 4:34 “Ha! Leave us alone, Jesus the Nazarene! Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are – the Holy One of God.”

Luke 4:41 Demons also came out of many, crying out, “You are the Son of God!”

Luke 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, fell down before him, and shouted with a loud voice, “Leave me alone, Jesus, Son of the Most High God! I beg you, do not torment me!”

When we read the Bible, we find that Jesus was sent to preach to a specific nation only, not mankind.

You are incorrect. Again.

Luke 4:18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and the regaining of sight to the blind, to set free those who are oppressed, 4:19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

Luke 5:32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

Luke 6:27 “But I say to you who are listening.............

Luke 6:47 “EVERYONE who comes to me and listens to my words and puts them into practice – I will show you what he is like: 6:48 He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep, and laid the foundation on bedrock. When a flood came, the river burst against that house but could not shake it, because it had been well built.
6:49 BUT THE PERSON who hears and does not put my words into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. When the river burst against that house,it collapsed immediately, and was utterly destroyed!”

Luke 7:22 So he answered them, “Go tell John what you have seen and heard: The blind see, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, the poor have good news proclaimed to them. 7:23 Blessed is ANYONE who takes no offense at me.”

Luke 8:15 But as for the seed that landed on good soil, THESE ARE THE ONES WHO, AFTER HEARING THE WORD,, cling to it with an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with steadfast endurance.

Luke 9:23 Then he said to them all, “If ANYONEwants to become my follower.....

NEED I CONTINUE?

I just find it difficult to believe that people actually worship a man as God

reply to post by autowrench
Therein lies the problem, friend. Because you find it "difficult" and hard to grasp (as we all do because of our tiny minds) you would rather discredit it and dismiss it. If you genuinely seek the truth, then ask Jesus Christ to reveal Himself to you. He knows your heart, and if you are for real, He will bless you with a peace that goes into the depths of your soul.

Jesus offers salvation to ALL MANKIND - every race, people, nation and tongue.

2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some regard slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not wish for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Originally posted by 1king2rulethemall

Care to define this "Holy Spirit?" I have had many arguments and debates over this matter, and most agree that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Creator(ess), so it indwells in every human being.

You are incorrect. I will not define Him for you. Let the Word of GOD define the Holy Spirit to you.
The Holy Spirit does not dwell in every human being. The Holy Spirit is a Gift to those who accept Jesus Christ as their GOD, King, Saviour and friend. He is their "seal" that they are saved.

Believe in him, what does that mean?

Actually it is those who believe in him. This would mean to believe in what he said. What he says is anyone who listens to my words and puts them into practice.

Even the demons know who Jesus is and believe in him for he is real.

Only those that follow his commands prove that they believe in him.
For example if someone is still worried more about tomorrow than the good they can do today they don’t believe.
If one does not love their enemy than they don’t believe in him.
If one does not hate themselves (feels real remorse for the sins they have committed), and fully submit to God and pray for a change of heart, they have not believed in him.

To receive baptism of the Holy Spirit one must truly believe and trust Jesus with everything.

Many people have been fooled by saying accept grace be water baptized and you are saved, and this may be true.

But if you truly want to receive the baptism of Christ you have to believe in him, not by just saying it, but by proving it. You must accept Grace and follow his commands.

Circumcision, Water Baptism, and saying you believe Christ was real, these are all outward signs.
It is only by picking up your cross, nailing your will to the Cross as Christ did for his father, and repenting (which literally means changing your ways), that you prove that you believe in Christ.

Jesus NEVER, NEVER, NEVER said this. Accept Grace try and be a better person but ultimately you will always be a sinner so be happy you have grace. It is the church that has said this. This is false doctrine that does not agree with Christ.

What Jesus does say is accept Grace and separate yourself from the things that make you unclean.

If you cannot understand these verses but you want to live free from sin, repent and follow Christ. If you do this you will receive the blessing of the baptism of Holy Spirit and you will live up to these verses. Have faith.

John 8:34, 36 Whosoever 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

I John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Listen, everyone God is calling us to the truth. A true believer of anything puts into practice those things that he believes are true. If you believe the words are of Christ are true, become a true believer by following his commands. Stop listening to men and start listening to Jesus.

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Luke 12:47 And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating.

Mathew 7: 21-23 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Read these verses as many times as you need to so that you may not fall into the trap that the world has set for you. Simply SAYING LORD DOES NOT GUARANTEE you heaven, doing the will of the father is what gets you into heaven. WAKE UP and start listening to Jesus, he is calling you.

reply to post by sacgamer25

What Jesus does say is accept Grace and separate yourself from the things that make you unclean.

If you cannot understand these verses but you want to live free from sin, repent and follow Christ. If you do this you will receive the blessing of the baptism of Holy Spirit and you will live up to these verses. Have faith.

Hey there sac,
Just getting caught up on the latest between y'all here. You know I respect your thoughts and that at the very bottom line we agree with one another...

These two sentences above reflect it. The problem I have with your presentation is that in so many ways you make perfect sense...but then you add in the bit that rankles. I wish only to make a suggestion to you and all the others who use the teachings of Christ to promote goodness, tolerance, kindness, and love...

the verses used say repeatedly, "you must be born again,"

and

I said, "You are gods,
And all of you are sons of the Most High.
Nevertheless you will die like men
And fall like any one of the princes."

and

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was , I am .

According to the biographers and chroniclers, he said those things. But SO DID MANY SPIRITUAL LEADERS, and he had studied under other masters, from whom he learned and that is what he brought back to his "people."

We are ALL sons and daughters of the Divine. He was telling them the Holy Spirit lives beyond the realm of physical birth and death. He was telling them he was aware of the eternal aspect of his own spirit, and to treat others well, and follow the guidance to do no harm unto others...that we are ALL CONNECTED through the Holy Spirit, and we will ALL be eventually reunited with the Divine. He also clearly says you must be born again. He was not talking about anything other than being born again. Reincarnating, again, and again, until you are ready as a soul to rejoin the Divine.

When those who believe this is the message might just deliver the message and leave it at that, a message, as a TEACHING of Christ's, but then carry it that one step further and say he is GOD and the Only Begotten Son of God, which is NOT what HE HIMSELF said, then it becomes as though no one else has ever had a good and loving heart...

I believe that I live, I KNOW that I live, to the best of my ability within the things he DID teach. But I don't think he was the only One. There are many of us who live "righteously", but have no interest in declaring that Jesus is God just to satisfy some human being who has "warned" me that if I don't I am doomed.

If you (any of you who actually get the MESSAGE but insist on inserting his name) were to rewrite your posts and leave JESUS out of them, your message would be more palatable to others. The message stands alone, it does not need Jesus to be worshipped to be the same message. It is what it is.

Treat others as you would be treated.
You must be born again.
You are all gods.
*sigh*

reply to post by wildtimes


There is no way to truly answer you without sounding righteous by your standards. But I still believe that I must tell the truth.

God does indeed have the power to separate ones spiritual body from their physical body before death. This is not something that can be explained by earthly terms but I will do my best.

I don’t think this fully translates online, I think you would truly have to meet me to believe, but this has happened to me.

I used to worry about money, food, tomorrow, just like everyone else.

I used to be what you might call a casual observer when it came to God.

There was a day about 5 or 6 years ago where God must have called me to read the bible so I did. I remained a rather casual observer for years, reading here and there, listening at times in my car.

Now I forget about money, forget to eat, tomorrow is this concept that I don’t really understand anymore. If not for my 6 year old daughter this world would have nothing for me. I don’t remember when the last time I bought myself anything that was not food. I have what most would consider a good income but I have given away almost everything I have. I find no joy in anything material.

I cannot put down the bible. This is my day every day. I do work when I have to work, Then every min of the day I am reading about, talking about, or listening to the word of God. My children have to ask daddy for conversations that don’t include God. And even then I sneak a lesson or two about love in on them.

I truly believe that I have only one purpose in life and that is to spread the truth about Christ. To get as many people to read the word and follow God. I have done much wrong in my life and although I know that I have been forgiven, I feel compelled to take what I know and pay off as much dept to God as I can.

Do I believe that I have to do this for my salvation, absolutely not. I have had faith, God has made a promise to me that I cannot explain. For many sin is a part of their life that they cannot see past. To me sin is something that disgusts me. I can’t watch TV, listen to the radio, or even look at many of the posts here on ATS. These things are filled with so much sin it is literally disgusting to me.

I was what the world would call normal not that long ago but I know of a better life and I must live it. It is possible for a human, in the flesh to give up willful sin. Not by our power but by God’s power. He truly can do all things.
Just so everyone understands willful sin.

Everyone knows the saying look but don’t touch and this is man’s way. If this was truly possible one would not commit adultery. This is why man’s way fails.

God’s way is don’t even look. Now so that you know I am not righteous my eyes still see the beautiful woman, but I force myself to look away so that I do not let lust enter in my mind. On the occasion that I don’t look away I become disgusted with myself. For me that was willful sin. And because I have learned this I will be protected from truly committing a willful sin. I don’t think it is possible for me to willfully break the commands any more.

I have only shared the truth because I want my life to be a testimony to the power of God, prayer and obedience to Christ. I have done nothing to deserve what God has given me. I consider myself the least of all God’s servants, and no better than anyone else. I do not know why God choose me for this task but I know that I must do what he asks.

If you want to understand what I am saying in God's words read Hebrews and believe that you can receive the gift from God that makes that book read with a literal interpretation. Have faith that is all it takes.

Anyone ever go to catholic school and be forced to confess to a priest when you had committed no sin. It happened to me. Naturally what else could i do, i had to go lie to a priest about some sin that i didn't commit!

reply to post by wildtimes

When those who believe this is the message might just deliver the message and leave it at that, a message, as a TEACHING of Christ's, but then carry it that one step further and say he is GOD and the Only Begotten Son of God, which is NOT what HE HIMSELF said, then it becomes as though no one else has ever had a good and loving heart...

Wildtimes.. you are in grave error of what Jesus taught His people..as well as who taught Jesus.

From Mathew Chapter 16 versus 11-20

[11] Why do you not understand that it was not concerning the bread I said to you: Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees?

[12] Then they understood that he said not that they should beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

[13] And Jesus came into the quarters of Caesarea Philippi: and he asked his disciples, saying: Whom do men say that the Son of man is? [Matthew 16:13] [Latin]

[14] But they said: Some John the Baptist, and other some Elias, and others Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

[15] Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am?

[16] Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God.

[17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.

[18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

[19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

[20] Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.

Would like to add that I believe the reason for him telling his apostles not to tell anyone..was because it was not time yet.

I will put more scripture where Jesus talks about being the living Son of God..as well as being the only path to the Father.

I'm sure other more experienced Christians can help me out with this.. please..

Originally posted by FocusedWolf
Anyone ever go to catholic school and be forced to confess to a priest when you had committed no sin. It happened to me. Naturally what else could i do, i had to go lie to a priest about some sin that i didn't commit!

Anybody who thinks they haven't made a sin.. is in some serious self denial..

#!..Did you love God with your whole heart mind and soul ..everyday as a child.. did you wake up every day thanking him for life..and asking Him how you could serve him? Did you talk to Him in the evening, and ask how you may have offended Him?

#2 Were you kind to every child.. did you protect the child who got bullied.. ? did you laugh at kids less fortunate than you? did you think yourself better than some other children?

reply to post by gabby2011


Sin is a fictional construct. Teaching kids that even when they're not doing anything wrong, they're still doing something wrong, is counterproductive and cruel. You can teach a child to be nice to his playmates without the need of a abstract concept that even most adults are unable to cope with, let alone a child.

Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by gabby2011

 

Sin is a fictional construct. Teaching kids that even when they're not doing anything wrong, they're still doing something wrong, is counterproductive and cruel. You can teach a child to be nice to his playmates without the need of a abstract concept that even most adults are unable to cope with, let alone a child.

what is so abstract about offending ..and not wanting to offend the giver of life and creator of love?

It made me feel good as child when I realized that Jesus forgave me for the unkind things I may have done...and that He would teach me how to love others much better if I asked Him to and believed He could.

and guess what?.. it still feels good as an adult to know those same truths and they even have more meaning because of how I have neglected Him in my adult life... nothing abstract about it.

reply to post by gabby2011


Gabby, while I truly believe that you truly believe these things, I am not in grave danger or error.
Here is what a more experienced Christian has to say:
What Jesus Really Said

Many debate and speculate about Jesus and what Jesus really said. Jesus' own statements about who he was and what his intentions were are pretty clear, however. Here we focus simply upon what Jesus really said in the book of John, using the New International Version Bible - translated from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts by more than one hundred scholars of various denominations. We discuss the practical application of what Jesus said without regard to sect, religious institution or dogma.

Okay? You still with me?

The ecclesiastical Roman Catholic Church and the many sects that followed their interpretations have arrived at the conclusion that all we have to do is "accept that Jesus died for our sins" and we will be "saved." So now we have a collection of various "Christian" sects around the world who are led by professional (paid with salaries) teachers, trying to get us to join their church (and pay their salaries) so they can "save us" by getting us to stare at the cross and proclaim "Jesus died for my sins and now I am saved!"

The source page goes on to talk about WHY the RCC chose to omit James' teachings and instead used Paul's teachings, who was a hired spy on the original Christians.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." (Matt. 7:21)

Those who are teaching and those who are practicing this "Jesus died for my sins" teaching fall under this category of people who are saying "Lord, Lord" in the above verse. They are proclaiming Jesus as Lord without doing what he is instructing them to do. And what is that? "only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven:" serving God, in other words.

Jesus goes on to say:
"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" (Matt. 7:21-23)

Isn't this precisely what the ecclesiastical Christian sects of today are doing in Jesus' name... prophesizing in Jesus' name, performing miracles and driving out demons in Jesus' name? Yet Jesus is calling them "evildoers," saying "Away from me." Why? Because they didn't follow his instructions, which was to serve God ("does the will of my Father who is in heaven.")

So now that we can see that these Christian sects are doing almost precisely what Jesus warns us not to do, should we believe their teaching that all we have to do is "accept Jesus into my heart" and "Jesus died for my sins"? All the while ignoring Jesus' real teachings?

This "Jesus died for my sins" is the teaching that the Roman government promoted in early Christian times, because it supported their ability to control the Christian world with one doctrine that could be consistent with their continued materialism.

The doctrine was begun by Paul, who was not a direct disciple of Jesus, and who in fact worked directly for the Roman government, spying on the early Christians. In fact, Paul's teachings challenged the teachings of James, who was Jesus' direct disciple.

James' teachings were consistent with Jesus' - which were consistent with the teachers who preceded Jesus, including John the Baptist, Job, Samuel, Joshua, David, Moses, Solomon, Eli, Abraham and so many others. It was Paul - who never heard Jesus' teachings directly, but rather claimed to have a vision of Jesus - that the Roman government decided to base their interpretation of Jesus' teachings on. So they completely ignored James' teachings - basically editing him out of the Bible. James not only taught what Jesus taught: He was also murdered by the Roman government.

James' teachings, however, were recorded in the Dead Sea Scrolls ("James the Great"), which the Romans banned, and burned, except for what was secretly buried by devoted followers of Jesus.

Remember that it was the Romans - the same government who murdered Jesus and many of his followers, and the same government who murdered millions of Jews in the first century - who governed the process of selecting (and editing) the books of the Bible. It was the early Roman Catholic Church - organized by Constantine in the early fourth century - who dictated the meaning of Jesus' teachings, and authorized Paul as its supposed first "pope." Meanwhile, they de-emphasized Jesus' actual teachings, and those direct disciples who were passing on those teachings.