Wow. Two pages of off-topic nonsense about a title and a mod "intervention".

On topic : I agree with DHS on this. I think people should have to show a photo ID to vote. This is a good law, in my opinion.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
So you are telling me that the "The Tennessee Department of Safety and Homeland Security" is not an extension of DHS based in washington dc? The titles given to each seem close enough to warrant a connection imo.

Does that make the Oklahoma Bureau of Investigation an extension of the Federal Bureau of Investigation in Washington DC? What about the Kansas Bureau of Investigation? Does the Michigan State Police get confused with the New York State Police?

Extension? My local government is an extension of my county government is an extension of my state government is an extension of my federal government. My local police is an extension of my county police is an extension of my state police is an extension of the FBI.

SEMA (State Emergency Management) is not a part of FEMA (Federal Emergency management). If something happens the 2 agencies are specialized and can work together if need be. Just because they can doesnt mean its an extension of FEMA run from Washington.

To suggest it in that manner is again fear-mongering and demonstrates a severe lack of knowledge and understanding of the differences of government and responsibilities there of.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
If I am wrong then forgive me for making an off-topic post. I guess I just can't get over the fact that america is becoming less and less democratic after 9-11. I am not playing the nazi card to offend, rather I am making a comparison of historic importance.

Its your opinion, so there is nothing wrong with that at all. The fact we can still have a difference of opinion leads me in the opposite direction you are describing above. The people of the State of Tennessee voted into law a requirement when it comes to voting. The people of the State of Tennessee are aware of and allow the funding of the TDPSHS.

There is no comparison - simply because in Nazi Germany we wouldn't be able to play point counterpoint in the manner we are now. If we lived in Nazi Germany there is a good guarantee that at some point both of us will disappear for questioning for even exercising independent thought.

Generally speaking the invocation of Nazi Germany is done by people who are ignorant of the facts and nothing more. Its generally by people who are so intent on getting only their message out and forced to be accepted anything else is Nazi'esque, although certainly not viewed in that manner by the person invoking in the first place.

So lets leave Nazi out of the conversation since it has no place and does not even come close to any historical comparisons for this thread.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
The nazis WERE socialists. America is NOT, but both are/were republics. The weimar republic and the republic of the united states of america.

The Democratic Peoples Republic of China
The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea (North)
The Islamic Republic of Iran
The Syrian Arab Republic

...to name a few more.

However, we are a Representative Republic, where as Nazi Germany was not.

If you are going to use history, please understand it first.

Do you have issues with the people of the state of Tennessee voting to require people who are residents in that state to provide identification when they go to vote?

* - The state is providing the ID's.
* - The ID's provided are valid for voting only
* - They cant be used for anything else.

Are you really that scared of a name? Like the TN Dept of Safety and Homeland Security? Are you rally that paranoid of our local and state government being able to interface with our federal government?

The article is a non article. All it discusses is the new law and what the state has done to ensure the will of the people is being carried out? There is nothing federal about it.

Why so scared of it?

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
Wow. Two pages of off-topic nonsense about a title and a mod "intervention".

On topic : I agree with DHS on this. I think people should have to show a photo ID to vote. This is a good law, in my opinion.

edit on 7/1/2012 by Iamonlyhuman because: (no reason given)

And the off topic nonsense resulted from people trying to portray the article as something its not. Had the info been presented without omission then I doubt this thread would have gone anywhere to begin with.

To bring it back around I agree with voter ID laws. Without them I think both sides use have been using the lack of Id to their advantages. Even registered voters have been duped because they cant verify the person in front of them is who they say they are.

People are all for technology - except when that technology levels the playing field -
Voter ID cards
Electronic voting
Internet voting

etc etc etc

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

If I were still living in the states I would not even fly anymore considering the x-ray scanners at all major airports and the overzealous TSA agents that will not stop at anything to waste your time and humiliate you. Accepting grossely exaggerated terrorism has become the norm, while new legislation keeps pilling up. All they had to do was use greyhound cannines at the airports, screen the luggage and employ armed marshals. Two of the three were already used including locked cabin doors.

Now we need DHS sponsored photo ids which resemble the national id scheme. I though the USA passport filed that hole up perfectly, in addition to the state ids and/or college ids. All this added redundancy is mind numbing stupid/annoying. It is starting to feel like nazi germany WITHOUT THE SOCIALISM!

I travel VERY much....and I know that my opinion is in the minority but I am ok with the scanners.
If it means keeping weapons of any sort off the planes, I can withstnd some extra scrutiny....

I have two stories re the tsa which are applicable and yet I still do not begrudge their efforts:

Story 1:
in 2002 flying out of Denver:

My wife and I were visiting her dad in early springtime Denver. I had brought our bags outside and set them on his lawn. We loaded them in the car and went to the airport. When we got to the security line, my tumi briefcase/laptop bag was randomly selected for bomb scanning. It came up positive for nitrates. I was not immediately sequestered though after a "conference" of the agents, my wife was told to go to the gate as i was to be further "scrutinized"..... They toom me to a room and did the standard q&a. When they finally let me go, i was given my tumi bag back which was in shreds. They had cut every seam to inspect and test every surface of the bag. It couldnt even hold a piece of paper...lol...
So I told them they could have the bag and i would just carry my laptop....
I got tot the gate in time for my flight....my wife had been on the phone with her dad whom had told her he had fertilized his lawn the day before we had visited. That is the lawn where my bags had been sitting prior to loading....btw, i never filed the paperwork to get reimbursed..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Story 2:
also inolving my father in law...lol

Flying back from somewhere i cant recall in 2003 I had a layover in Kansas city. I had bought my wifes dad, who is named bob and loves wordworking, a Bob the Builder toy set for christmas.....it was too tall for my checked suitcase because of the plastic saw.....i know, i know....what kind of idiot would take a plastic tool set on the plane...well, me
Anyhow, the first leg went fine and I went through security with no problem...in Kansas City you had to go theough security again, regardless of whether you were connecting or not. And when i sent my toy set through the scanner all hell broke loose. I was immediately escorted to a private room and interogated. I was pleasant and somewhat flipant about the whole thing....they eventually let me go to my flight contingent on me checking the toy set(which was a plastic saw, hammer, plyers, helmet, etc).....
The best part was that they wrapped it with tsa warning paper....i actually gave it to bob for christmas wrapped in the tsa hazardous material paper...
-----------------------

And yet i still dont mind the tsa....i would rather suffer some frustration and a bit of shame if there is the possibility of keeping dangerous items off a plane....

-Chris

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
The nazis WERE socialists. America is NOT, but both are/were republics. The weimar republic and the republic of the united states of america.

The Democratic Peoples Republic of China
The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea (North)
The Islamic Republic of Iran
The Syrian Arab Republic

...to name a few more.

However, we are a Representative Republic, where as Nazi Germany was not.

Do you know the difference between a democracy and a republic? AFAIK a democracy is direct representation where as a republic is indirect representation. It has a lot to do with the voting system but goes beyond that in practical application. One is more majority friendly than the other with less checks and balances for the minority.

I think using a "democratic republic" within the name is a self-contradiction. Not that names have to be accurate. Just look at the soviet union calling itself a socialist republic when in it was actually a communist dictatorship. You could only vote for local elections afaik.

Nazi germany became a national socialist country by elections. Hitler was a passionate orator who told people everything they wanted to hear after loosing ww1 and their economy was in shambles. Germany had no colonies off europe and together with italy and other socialist nations were eager to get a share of the pie from western european nations.

Hitler hated communism, gypsies and jews. Jews were known as capitalists pigs, gypsies as unholy scum and communists as state sponsored, lazy zombies. Hitler was neither a communist nor a capitalist, he was a national socialist. Basically a socialist who had expansionary visions for his nation and people!

Germany DID have representative politics, but hitler created a dictatorship because people ALLOWED him to do so under passionate rhetoric and the need for germany to rebuild itself.

If you are going to use history, please understand it first.

Same to you!

Do you have issues with the people of the state of Tennessee voting to require people who are residents in that state to provide identification when they go to vote?

* - The state is providing the ID's.
* - The ID's provided are valid for voting only
* - They cant be used for anything else.

I do not have issues with what people want.

Are you really that scared of a name? Like the TN Dept of Safety and Homeland Security? Are you rally that paranoid of our local and state government being able to interface with our federal government?

The article is a non article. All it discusses is the new law and what the state has done to ensure the will of the people is being carried out? There is nothing federal about it.

Why so scared of it?

Because I don't like DHS and neither do I have to. When I go hunting for birds I use bird shot. I when go hunting for dear I use slugs or buckshot. America LET 9-11 happen so they could justify a tremendous waste of funds for the military-industrial complex and endless wars.

Go ahead and remain blind to corporate imperialism. You are hurting yourself only!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Do you know the difference between a democracy and a republic? AFAIK a democracy is direct representation where as a republic is indirect representation. It has a lot to do with the voting system but goes beyond that in practical application. One is more majority friendly than the other with less checks and balances for the minority.

I think using a "democratic republic" within the name is a self-contradiction. Not that names have to be accurate. Just look at the soviet union calling itself a socialist republic when in it was actually a communist dictatorship. You could only vote for local elections afaik.

You invoked it and attempted to compare the US to that of Nazi Germany. Im very familiar with comparative politics, and how a term can be used even though it has absolutely nothing to do with the term at al, like the Nazi republic you referred to, as well as China, DPRK etc etc. Its used by those countries who like to think they represent and govern with the consent of the people, when in fact they dont.

the US does.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Nazi germany became a national socialist country by elections. Hitler was a passionate orator who told people everything they wanted to hear after loosing ww1 and their economy was in shambles. Germany had no colonies off europe and together with italy and other socialist nations were eager to get a share of the pie from western european nations.

Right.. Im not the one who needs the history lesson. You brought it up, I shot it down. Quit obfuscating.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Hitler hated communism, gypsies and jews. Jews were known as capitalists pigs, gypsies as unholy scum and communists as state sponsored, lazy zombies. Hitler was neither a communist nor a capitalist, he was a national socialist. Basically a socialist who had expansionary visions for his nation and people!

Which has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Quit obfuscating.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Germany DID have representative politics, but hitler created a dictatorship because people ALLOWED him to do so under passionate rhetoric and the need for germany to rebuild itself.

The people didnt allow it. The people who were elected did when they made Hitler Supreme ruler, king and tryant for life. Again, has nothing to do with what we are talking about, so please stop obfuscating.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

If you are going to use history, please understand it first.

Same to you!

Right.. When you are done learning history, and are capable of staying on topic, especially when you are argument is shot down, get back to us. Until then, feel free to continue to learn history so you dont look clueless when you try to pontificate to others.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Do you have issues with the people of the state of Tennessee voting to require people who are residents in that state to provide identification when they go to vote?

* - The state is providing the ID's.
* - The ID's provided are valid for voting only
* - They cant be used for anything else.

I do not have issues with what people want.

uhm... ok

then why the hubbub about it?

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Are you really that scared of a name? Like the TN Dept of Safety and Homeland Security? Are you rally that paranoid of our local and state government being able to interface with our federal government?

The article is a non article. All it discusses is the new law and what the state has done to ensure the will of the people is being carried out? There is nothing federal about it.

Why so scared of it?

Because I don't like DHS and neither do I have to. When I go hunting for birds I use bird shot. I when go hunting for dear I use slugs or buckshot. America LET 9-11 happen so they could justify a tremendous waste of funds for the military-industrial complex and endless wars.

And if you read the article you would know its not referring to the Department of Homeland Security at the Federal level. Its dealing with an unrelated agency that is controlled by the State of Tennessee and is part of their ublic safety department.

As far as 9/11 goes fix your rectal cranial inversion. Even when you have the most money, the best military and the best intelligence and technology, doesnt mean we can prevent everything. The world is a dangerous place, and to assume its not is niaeve. If you are going down the road of 9/11 being an inside job, take it to the conspiracy forums with the other wingnuts who think they use is bugging their braces and spiking their water.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Go ahead and remain blind to corporate imperialism. You are hurting yourself only!

Paying attention to whats going on is fine. Questioning authority is fine. Participating in government is fine.

Spouting off without having all the facts. Making a decision based on your personal hatred of the US government instead of using facts. Ignoring facts when they dont suit your argument.

All are problematic and in the end dont solve or stop anything. What it does is creates a belief that everyone and everything is evil and out to get you.

It breeds paranoia, and paranoia breeds distrust, and distrust becomes delusional, at which point you have your Hitler.

Have fun Ahab.

Why don't these people have ID's?

You need an ID for just about everything, even if it's not a drivers license.

9500 without ID's? Really?