Did Jesus die on the cross ?

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posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 06:12 PM
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Rather than engage you in a discussion about women, I will stand my ground. My particular path is not one that can be shared with women. Women are rather hostile to my Liberty, by and large. Very few of them are strong enough to approach what I worship. None of them can abide there.

You guys seem to have your own faith. I am not hostile to that. But it is your own invention. Will it withstand the eternities? Will it withstand the test of the forces and the powers? That is the only real estimation.

There is an old proverb given to us by our Hebrew Teacher, "Everything that was planted outside of the Father will be uprooted and cast into the fire."

I find it better to perfect one's reason, and to discover the real power of the mind. Each incarnation of light that was the prophets, the great reformers of religion, each had a commonality through them. This is is the foundation of the truth. Stand there, and you will not be shaken.

I am with you and your group because you are an enemy of my enemy, but I think our destinies are quite separate. I go to the place of youthful liberty, and it is the abode of the faithful and true only. It is also a place where virginity is enshrined. I represent the male aspect of this place.

My brothers are them that worship what I do - we are a union of individuals, a nation of equals. We serve one another because that is our nature. We do not admit those who require service, or those who are not full. We delight in bringng up those who are on the verge of fullness, and spare no kindness to them of the pure truthfulness. That is the pure male nature. It is not one of war, but when we war the heavens fly away.

Arkaleus




posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 11:30 PM
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Brother Arkaleus,

Of course, your opinions are yours by right to choose and keep as you will, so please don’t ever mistake my disagreements for a claim that I am “right” and you are “wrong”, even if I should erroneously use words or phrasing that suggest otherwise.

As best I can tell, we are all prisoners of illusion, one way or another. So it would be foolish for me to claim that my illusions are better than yours.


Still, it is fun to compare notes, and here are some observations of mine in response to yours, to perhaps give you a better idea of where I am coming from on some things.

I apologize if I come across as dogmatic, which I try hard to avoid, and wish to reemphasize that I know I can be mistaken about pretty much anything or everything.

Also, should you or anyone else see fit to roll your eyes and skip past my posts due to their prodigious length, I will certainly understand. Despite my tendency to post at such length, I realize that overall, life is too short for long posts. Then again, life is a pretty big topic.


That said, let’s see where we stand on a few things:

The Weaker Sex?


Originally posted by Arkaleus
Rather than engage you in a discussion about women, I will stand my ground. My particular path is not one that can be shared with women. Women are rather hostile to my Liberty, by and large. Very few of them are strong enough to approach what I worship. None of them can abide there.


Methinks the man doth protest too much. I can say without reservation that my experiences disagree with your conclusions, but then we do walk different paths. As for standing your ground, I of course recommend that you stand wherever you wish.


I have no memories of being a woman in a past life, so I’m a “man’s man”, as it were. In one particular case, as a Greek warrior in a past life, I also chose a path closed to women in pretty much every sense of the word. Ultimately, however, I came to see that the loss was mine.

Your experiences with women are no doubt similar to mine in some ways and different from them in others. However, I advise against painting with too broad a brush.

By way of illustration, I am sure we can both call to mind many examples of men who are hostile to our Liberty, by and large, and lacking in whatever manner you may choose to measure strength.

I am unable to see such things as either limited to or emblematic of the characteristics of women, since I have known many women who are respectful of the rights of others and strong in ways I cannot match.

I have also observed that spiritual gender is more a matter of choice and temperament than assignment. As children of the Creator, we are all nearly identical, except for the experiences of this one Cycle of existence among trillions.

While that’s not much of a difference overall, it is vital to our distinctiveness as individuals. Our choice of gender is but one of many choices we each make in the process of growing and creating ourselves. It is important, but there are many other choices that are also important.

As for worship, I have come to realize that the only entities who desire my worship are those who are unworthy of it. To worship others is to deny the truth that we are all children of the Creator, all indispensable to the process of Creation, not a one of us above the other in importance.

To either demand worship or give it is a sin of vanity -- the denial of who we are. This denial of self-awareness is, as best I can tell, the Original Sin which marked the Divergence that gave birth to this Cycle of existence. Thus it is neither good or evil in itself, but necessary to the process of Creation.

But that’s my own probably rather opaque view, and opinions vary widely.

Society Or Religion?


Originally posted by Arkaleus
You guys seem to have your own faith. I am not hostile to that. But it is your own invention. Will it withstand the eternities? Will it withstand the test of the forces and the powers? That is the only real estimation.


Don’t be confused by my association with The Society Of Light (TSOL), which is developing over time and ongoing. My experiences lead me to agree with TSOL on many things, but to think that I have “bought into whole TSOL package” would be incorrect.

Most definitely I cannot and do not speak for anyone else in TSOL or for TSOL in general.

I am a skeptic, and I take my sweet time when it comes to choosing friends and associates, as well as what I may or may not believe at a given time -- and my beliefs will and must change over time if I am to grow. I also make mistakes, and know that I do, which can be helpful but is never foolproof.

The nature of TSOL is, in fact, as best I can tell such that supplicants and sycophants need not apply, but that‘s my opinion, and opinions within TSOL most certainly vary. My impression of TSOL is that of the Libertarian Party of spiritualism, if that helps with understanding my view of the group.

As for it being an invention, my view is that none of us can really comprehend Objective Truth, and that to think we can do so is self-delusion. Thus each of us will tend to model our views of reality to match our perceptions and assumptions.

I doubt that any two spirits really see TSOL in the exact same way, and would be suspicious if anyone claimed to. This goes double for reality in general. We are all prisoners of our own illusions.

As for whether TSOL will withstand eternities, forces and powers, I don’t know. But I think the more important question is not whether TSOL will hold up, but how each of us will, instead.

Associations come and go, but we are all of us eternal, though we may deny it.

Who’s Yo’ Daddy?


Originally posted by Arkaleus
There is an old proverb given to us by our Hebrew Teacher, "Everything that was planted outside of the Father will be uprooted and cast into the fire."


If you consider the Creator to be the Father, then the only thing to burn will be the chains we have bound ourselves with. Contrary to popular opinion, the Creator is supremely efficient, and wastes nothing, most especially our souls.

We all serve a purpose, and while pain marks the path of darkness, and pleasure the path of light, no one may be lost or destroyed if Creation is to succeed and continue.

Rhyme And Reason


Originally posted by Arkaleus
I find it better to perfect one's reason, and to discover the real power of the mind. Each incarnation of light that was the prophets, the great reformers of religion, each had a commonality through them. This is is the foundation of the truth. Stand there, and you will not be shaken.


To reason is to think in rational, orderly ways. The greatest power of the mind is its ability to examine itself in abstraction. Using these tools, it is possible to discover inconsistencies in our thoughts and seek to find ways to resolve them.

Doing so leads to intellectual growth. Failing to do so leads to intellectual (and spiritual) stagnation, if not outright death. It should not come as a surprise that I advocate constant and unceasing self-examination as a consequence.

I agree that all prophets and reformers share commonalities to some degree or another, even if not all of them may agree on anything.

Since casting off the blindfold of Christianity, I have found what I consider to be fundamental truths in all systems of belief. Those things that transcend specific religious doctrines and are common to all of them are probably true in some way.

Of one thing I am sure: to believe that you or anyone has hold of the Absolute Truth is a deceit and self-deception.

This does not mean we cannot catch glimpses of it, but even the Creator seems incapable of knowing all there is to know except at times of Convergence (when we all rejoin and share what we have learned in preparation for the next Cycle) and that is itself not an instantaneous process.

Basing Friendships On Enemyships


Originally posted by Arkaleus
I am with you and your group because you are an enemy of my enemy, but I think our destinies are quite separate. I go to the place of youthful liberty, and it is the abode of the faithful and true only. It is also a place where virginity is enshrined. I represent the male aspect of this place.


“The enemy of my enemy is my friend” is not a truth, but a false axiom that has been disproven repeatedly and painfully, and probably in both of our lives. I advise against associating on such a weak foundation. Also, who we define as “enemies” can itself be a somewhat nebulous concept.

For example, these days I seek to move my path closer to Light, but I have walked most of it in Darkness. By moving closer to Light, does that make those who at this time in their journeys walk closer to Darkness my enemies, who themselves are where I once was?

I suppose I could think that way, but knowing that we are all brothers and sisters, it seems to me an act of self-deception to think of them as enemies, even if our purposes differ violently.

I have children, and they have struggled against me as they have grown and sought their own paths. Should I hate them for this? No! They have done precisely what they are supposed to do, and what each of us must do if we are to follow our own paths, and I love them for it.

So it is between myself and my brothers and sisters who walk a darker path, even though they may see me as an enemy. We are kin who simply follow different roads, not enemies in my sight.

While this may sound a bit corny, I really do see each of us as streams which burst from the same spring and mingle in various ways as we each follow our own course, but that we all run into the same ocean in the end.

To enshrine any one of us above another is, in my view, to miss seeing the forest for the trees and forget who we really are.

Worship Service


Originally posted by Arkaleus
My brothers are them that worship what I do - we are a union of individuals, a nation of equals. We serve one another because that is our nature. We do not admit those who require service, or those who are not full.


This seems somewhat self-contradictory to me, but maybe I’m not reading it right. In general, I have found worship of any kind to be a sin of vanity against oneself. Whatever demands worship from us does not deserve it.

As for serving one another, to do so freely and without coercion is, in my view, one of the most rewarding and pleasurable things I can do, and have ever done. In aiding our brothers and sisters, we aid ourselves and grow.

But it is important to remember that false acts of “self-sacrifice” or “self-denial” are just that, and sins against ourselves as well as others.

For service to others to be true, it must be honestly given in love, not in sin, and with no expectation of reward except that which naturally comes from such deeds. All else is deceit and darkness.

In The Fullness Of Time


Originally posted by Arkaleus
We delight in bringng up those who are on the verge of fullness, and spare no kindness to them of the pure truthfulness. That is the pure male nature. It is not one of war, but when we war the heavens fly away.


That which is on the verge of fullness is that which is about to spill. Kindness to others is really an act of kindness to ourselves, since cruelty is always the author of its own destruction.

I doubt any of us is really truthful, due to our limitations, but I consider honesty a worthy alternative.

Kindness is most certainly not limited to the “pure male nature”, and may in fact be contrary to it, if we look honestly at the overarching roles of the masculine and feminine principles in the schemes of Creation. But this may be a semantic disagreement, and perhaps we are speaking of different things altogether.

As for war in the heavens, I am still very new and young in my spiritual awareness, and know little, except that I know little. But when it comes to “spiritual warfare”, I am coming to find that victory lies in the embrace, not in the fist.

To try to “fight fire with fire” and meet perceived enemies on terms that they set is, in my view, itself a defeat. To prevail against any “enemy” requires choosing and establishing favorable terms of battle and denying control to them. Succeed in doing this, and victory is assured. Of course, opinions can and will vary on everything, including that.

Anyway, while we will no doubt choose to continue to disagree on many things, if not everything, I want to make it clear that while I consider my point of view a better one for me, that it is not the One True Path or necessarily right for you or anyone else. I offer it as an illustrative alternative, not a shoe that fits every foot.

We each pursue our own unique destinies, as well we should. I hold none above the other in importance, because we each benefit from the fruits of every path in the end.

Thus it is that while we may agree on little, I do wish you fulfillment wherever your path may lead you. If it is anything like mine and every other path that I am aware of has been, it will lead you into varying degrees of Darkness and Light.

But ultimately, I am confident that we will all meet again in the end as brothers and sisters, and as our true selves. I look forward to it, in its time.

Majic



[Edited on 9/15/2004 by Majic]



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 01:15 AM
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Arkaleus,

I was reading this post and I finally understand now.

Your a virgin.

Suddenly it all makes sense!!

Your a real piece of work.

Rokgodes



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 02:28 AM
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That's a factual report, sir. I am a male virgin. No woman has ever defiled my energy with her own in a sexual fashion. Such a thing to me would be utterly abhorrent, as say, a boy aged three might express it. Many of my words will make sense to you when you understand this.

I nearly errored when I was younger. But I was protected by a special spirit. Now that I am wise to the game, and cannot be lead into foolishness by women anymore, I suffer under a constant barrage of filthy advances by demonic forces. You don't know what kind of virgin I am - It is something extremely valuable I am guarding. It's not just MY OWN happy place I am covering, it's several hundred others, and this one day will grow to several THOUSAND, perhaps more. My form and my mind is like a temple for virgin males. As I am perfected, they too are perfected, because we are a regiment of brothers.

There are others like me, but not many. I am probably the least of them on ths world, but among the greater of them in heaven.

This will explain many things to you folks with understanding. It also explains my rather aggressive stance against meddlesome women. Women are rather strange around me. This is also why I cannot trust them so easily. They have an incredible, insatiable desire that I cannot allow under any circumstances to penetrate into my sacred place.

Even the most holy and reserved female is forbidden to gain even a footstep into the triple-male Godhead. Unfortunately, it means a complete demonic retrograde for the wretched female who dares to challenge this law. It is a guarded place - It is the honor and joy of the virgin man-child. Wash yourselves after reading this holy word, if you are pious men.

This is the thrice-holy temple that I am telling you about. To understand my strange ways, you need to know something about this very carefully protected holy place. I am a guardian of children, and my place in the heavens is rarified. This is why I do not abide with the females. They bother me too much. Their influence on the regions of the mind that I must develop is too great, and they are driven to lust. I have not yet found the woman who is able to approach this place without making shame upon herself.

Men too, for that matter, are forbidden to enter this special place. It's not even a question that they are kept quite away. We move as an armed group sometimes.

This mystery is the secret faith of Jesus, and of the "144,000" that are joined to him in perfection AND purity from women. Let me repeat that part - Purity from women. Non-defilement. Virginity. Kinda runs counterclockwise to the prevailing wind of the day, no? I am the fulfillment of the Christian testament, but there isn't a single Christian who is able to understand this yet, except the most pure among their children.

It is my burden, but it is a happy one. For my adherance to this strict guideline, I am able to associate my spirit with little children, and share in their light, and able to communicate with the more pure forms in the universe. That is what I do not tell very often. But I tell it to you, because you found out I was a virgin! I am delighted that you found this out, because I reveal my child-nature sometimes to my own people. Even in the midst of astral combat I will sometimes do this, and it is a rare moment when I am not in astral combat. Believe me, I wish I was not. But I do not have much choice in the matter.

And here another secret, since we are discussing the matter. Jesus was a virgin too. The same kind of virgin as me. We do not give issue to women. This is why it is hurtful to me to hear such fanciful inventions about the so called wife of Jesus, and his "carnal escapades" after his escape from the cross. It is a great and abominable lie these persons have told, and I caution you to cast them away from you.

Just accept my words on this. My faith is true. My cause is just. I am the archenemy of evil. My brothers are the terror of Shaitan, and the cause of lamentation among all demons. They beg for us to depart this realm when we appear in it, and cannot bear our presense in this world, or the next.

Are the pieces falling together for you yet? This is why I am so aloof and appear so antisocial to you. I am not for "togetherness". I do not accept all aspects of the human experience into my own place. I am forced to discern and enforce barriers, just like a mother who must protect her young. My way is not that of the embrace, it is the way of the absolute bidirectional sword. There is only up, or down. I move straightly.

You are either above me, which is Only God Most High, (blessed are those who are able to pass) This is "up". Or you are below me, in which case you must attend to your forms of religion and piety, (blessed are they who prostrate before the Most Holy One, for this is the meaning of "down") and more than this I have nothing to do with you. Or. . .you are with me in straightness, faithfulness, and truth, and we are a band of brothers. (Only to them whom it is given!)

Please do not be offended at my words needlessly. Those who are true of heart will understand my purpose. It is hard to see right now, but these things will become more clear as time goes by, and I attain my more perfect forms. You see, I am still finishing my childhood in many ways, and not everyone is perceptive enough, or faithful enough, to see me.

Please visit my post about the sign of Christ's Birth. If you are familiar with the book of revelations, and can count to 12, then you will learn a 2000 year old mystery that has not been known in all that time.

Arkaleus the truthful virgin, revealer of hidden matters.



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 04:04 AM
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Originally posted by Arkaleus
That's a factual report, sir. I am a male virgin. No woman has ever defiled my energy with her own in a sexual fashion. Such a thing to me would be utterly abhorrent, as say, a boy aged three might express it. Arkaleus the truthful virgin, revealer of hidden matters.


Well Arkaleus the truthful virgin, meet Intrepid, the long memoried. Last month you wanted to start a commune, AND GET LAID!


Originally posted by Arkaleus
There won't be any such nonsense among us. We would be a group of people who were already perfect, or in the work of perfecting themselves. Other kinds of folks just aren't going to live with us. It won't be a home for strays, as such bring in a vile element. I know that many people like us are quite beautiful. That brings in the question of sexual relationships among us. I don't see a way to avoid it, so I say let each person decide for himself the path of his own perfection, and those best able to attain it will reach it. Otherwise, I think sex in our community should be kept discreet and as simple as possible. I would love to hear your thoughts on this, because it is such a destructive force to let loose in a small community. I am still young and healthy, so lust is a constant threat to my development.


Can't avoid sex? Keep it discreet? Did you have a vision in the last 4 weeks that can explain this?



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 12:24 PM
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Did R. Ywhoshua bar Yosef the Galilean actually DIE on a Roman Cross?

Interestingly, the author of Mark's gospel, the earliest of the 4 gospels to be written down in Greek in the NT, uses the word SOMA to refer to the "living body" of "Iesous" (R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean) when he is deposed from the cross after having been affixed to the crossbeam, according to Mark for approx 6 hours (i.e. from the "third hour to the ninth hour")--but Mark tends to use Liturgical numbers (3's) ("it was the third hour and they crucified him...it was the 6th hour and it became dark....it was the 9th hour and Iesous cried out with a loud voice..." etc. which was influenced by Liturgy in the churches when the Passion Narratives were probably recited weekly or yearly at Eastern services etc.)

The normal Greek term for "corpse" would have been PTOMA, not SOMA.

i.e. a SOMA is a LIVE BODY.

And it does take about 70 hours on average to kill a person on a Roman cross, depending on how much abuse the victim has to endure being literally nailed to a post helplessly dangling (i.e. castration, or disembowelment which was a very common additional torture for the victim).

Again in Mark's early gospel we hear the story of Pontius Pilatus the prefect of Judaea complaining, "and Pilate was surprised that Iesous was dead so soon...and sent a centurion out to investigate..." so there is an outside chance that he was taken down alive and still breathing from the cross.

Interestingly, the other gospels leave that part about Pilate "marvelling that he could possibly be dead so soon" completely out (i.e. John, Matthew and Luke), and John's gospel seems to be answering the rumour that he was not dead when he said "out poured blood and water...and this is the disciple who saw these things for himself..." in other words, the tradition that he was actually dead was purportedly witnessed by someone who added his own testimony to the tale.

But a still breathing "Jeeezzzuzz" would certainly account for all those post resurrection narratives (none of which match each other, but that's another story) and at the very least would help to explain the empty tomb story which may have given rise to the myth of the Resurrection.



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 02:33 PM
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Brother Arkaleus,

There are, as I hope you can appreciate, few things about which I consider myself to be “certain”, and even those things I must always question and reexamine continuously as I go through life. So as usual, please accept my observations as those of a fellow prisoner of illusion, with all the usual disclaimers.

There is no shame or dishonor in virginity, unless it comes to rule your thoughts and lead you into darkness. Spiritual purity is not achieved through physical chastity, and it is unwise to confuse these two very different things.

You speak emphatically of never trusting “channeled spirits”, yet claim access to “Mysteries”, the distinctive and unmistakable calling card of spirits who seek to deceive. They are nothing more and have always been nothing more than a deception targeted at the vanity of those who fall victim to them.

The “Mysteries” are a snare for the unwary, not a path of enlightenment. How do I know? Because I have fallen victim to them myself . They are a ruse which places you under the control of those who promise you greater knowledge and power, but always leads into darkness and despair.

I sense great fear in your words, fear of yourself and who you really are. I urge you to be skeptical of the advice of others, including my own. Use the powers of discernment within you to uncover the truth, and do not be deceived!

Remember that Darkness is heralded by Fear, but Light is authenticated by Love. To confuse them is a painful error. I know because I have done this too many times to count, and its cost is not small.

Dear brother, you have succeeded in avoiding one form of seduction only to fall victim to another!

Again, I do not expect you to accept my observations without skepticism. I can say that if you cannot trust yourself to know who you are, then you are truly lost, since no other knowledge can avail you if you cannot know yourself.

The good news is that you can “know thyself”, if you can look within honestly and see the truth that awaits you there. Trust no one who seeks to blind you to yourself!

You may, of course, choose a path of darkness if you wish, just as I have done many times. While I will warn that such a path is marked by fear and pain, these things do serve a purpose: they teach us. I know because I have been taught by them many times.

So perhaps I warn you away from that which you should pursue, which is the knowledge that can only come from walking the path yourself. If so, it may be wrong of me to do so, but I still feel it only fair to warn you nonetheless, as one who has been down a similar road.

Wherever your path might take you, I hope you may ultimately find it fulfilling.

Majic



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 05:59 PM
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Well, I think that my motivation for starting a "commune" was a good deal away from trying to get young chicks. I thought I mnade myself rather clear about my motivations for starting a community. They were to get away from the evil forces that govern most of the other living people.

I take it that you guys aren't virgins. I take it that you guys don't hold virginity in very high reguard. I don't have much to say about that to you then.

Your ways and my ways are not equal. God forbid that you should come into my place, or I into yours.

Enjoy the fall weather,

Arkaleus



posted on Sep, 24 2004 @ 07:45 PM
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[4.171] O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector



posted on Sep, 24 2004 @ 07:47 PM
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[4.157] And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure



posted on Sep, 24 2004 @ 07:49 PM
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And when Isa son of Marium said: O children of Israel! surely I am the apostle of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Taurat and giving the good news of an Apostle who will come after me, his name being Ahmad, but when he came to them with clear arguments they said: This is clear magic.



posted on Sep, 25 2004 @ 03:01 AM
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For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
God cannot go near any badness. To God even a small lie is just as bad as murder. No matter how good we try to be we always do something wrong.
The only way that the Israelites could go near to God was to sacrifice animals to cover their sins with the blood because blood is our life. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice.

But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God Hebrews 10:12





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