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Woah, Jews are following a false religion created by anti-Christians or something?
That's OK, Jim Dewey just does not have faith in God for God to keep His promises. And I can show you how the devil works in this....
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy
That's OK, Jim Dewey just does not have faith in God for God to keep His promises. And I can show you how the devil works in this....
It's called, Christianity.
You seem to have the label but not the substance.
Jesus was rejected by his own, and killed with Roman help, the same people who came back later and cleaned them off the face of the earth as being a people on that bit of land.
The promise, according to the New Testament, was replaced with a new promise, and so the title, New Testament.edit on 7-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)
The Bar Kokhba revolt 132–136 CE;[2] Hebrew: מרד בר כוכבא or mered bar kokhba) against the Roman Empire, was the third major rebellion by the Jews of Judaea Province being the last of the Jewish-Roman Wars. Simon bar Kokhba, the commander of the revolt, was acclaimed as a Messiah, a heroic figure who could restore Israel. The revolt established an independent state of Israel over parts of Judea for over two years, but a Roman army made up of six full legions with auxiliaries and elements from up to six additional legions finally crushed it.[3] The Romans then barred Jews from Jerusalem, except to attend Tisha B'Av. Although Jewish Christians hailed Jesus as the Messiah and did not support Bar Kokhba, they were barred from Jerusalem along with the rest of the Jews. The war and its aftermath helped differentiate Christianity as a religion distinct from Judaism, see also List of events in early Christianity.The rebellion is also known as The Third Jewish-Roman War or The Third Jewish Revolt, though some historians relate it as Second Jewish Revolt, not counting the Kitos War, 115–117 CE.
Many of the Judaean Jews were sold into slavery while others became citizens of other parts of the Roman Empire. The book of Acts in the New Testament, as well as other Pauline texts, make frequent reference to the large populations of Hellenised Jews in the cities of the Roman world. These Hellenised Jews were only affected by the diaspora in its spiritual sense, absorbing the feeling of loss and homelessness which became a cornerstone of the Jewish creed, much supported by persecutions in various parts of the world. The policy towards proselytism and conversion to Judaism, which spread the Jewish religion throughout the Hellenistic civilization, seems to have subsided with the wars against the Romans and the following reconstruction of Jewish values for the post-Temple era.
In spite of the failure of the Bar Kokhba revolt, Jews remained in the Land of Israel in significant numbers. The Jews who remained there went through numerous experiences and armed conflicts against consecutive occupiers of the Land. Some of the most famous and important Jewish texts were composed in Israeli cities at this time. The Jerusalem Talmud, the completion of the Mishnah and the system of niqqud are examples.
In fact, what happens to those who come against the Israelites to destroy them?
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
In fact, what happens to those who come against the Israelites to destroy them?
Sorry, it already happened, that was what I was saying, Israel ceased to be, despite any so-called everlasting covenant.
Acts 3:12And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? 13The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. 14But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 15And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. 16And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all. 17And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. 18But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. 20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 22For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 25Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
7But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
39But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.
40And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,
Acts 22:2(And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,) 3I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
Eschatology is the last things where the idea is that "the last will be like the first", so like I was saying in an earlier post, the Book of Revelation serves the purpose of showing how all these things from the OT are fulfilled in the Christian Church, where you have Jesus in this paradise with the river and tree of life. That is Eden restored, and this is the "restoration of all things". What you are doing is reading in your own interpretation which ignores everything except for this pseudo-theology you were taught in your quasi-Judaic zionist-supporting religion invented to dupe people into supporting the modern state illegally occupying Palestine.
Jesus shall be taken to heaven UNTIL the time of restitution
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by jmdewey60
I notice how you conveniently leave out the quote of 1 Samuel 12 and make no mention of it in your post, instead you bring up nonsense about this nonexistent language you are calling Hebrew. "Biblical Hebrew" does not exist outside the Bible itself and was never a spoken language in Canaan as can be determined. So to say anyone spoke Hebrew is just some idealized fantasy world you have made up and why you would even want to do that is beyond me other than you are caught up in an extreme form of idolatry where your god is this belief in an mythical kingdom which once existed.
People in Judea did not in general call themselves Jews and that was a practice you can find created in the Book of Ester which is the exiles of the kingdom of Israel who were deported by the Assyrians to Media which later became part of the Medo/Persian Empire that conquered Babylon. Those people started up the practice of calling themselves Jews which did not come into vogue in the greater world of the Diaspora until after Jerusalem fell to Titus.
Paul calling himself Jew suffers from at least two problems, one being it was recorded in Acts, which is not a first or even second hand account, second it was written in Greek where it is difficult to distinguish the term meaning Jew, or just Judea where it is the same word.
Eschatology is the last things where the idea is that "the last will be like the first", so like I was saying in an earlier post, the Book of Revelation serves the purpose of showing how all these things from the OT are fulfilled in the Christian Church, where you have Jesus in this paradise with the river and tree of life. That is Eden restored, and this is the "restoration of all things". What you are doing is reading in your own interpretation which ignores everything except for this pseudo-theology you were taught in your quasi-Judaic zionist-supporting religion invented to dupe people into supporting the modern state illegally occupying Palestine.
Jesus shall be taken to heaven UNTIL the time of restitution
edit on 7-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)
So your real issue is with the Jewish state.
Your theology is Anti-Semitic
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy
So your real issue is with the Jewish state.
No, your problem is you follow a fake religion which is not authentic Christianity but a bogus substitute.
I am just explaining why someone would create such a religion in the first place.
It just so happens that the reason is easily explainable because it is covering for illegal activity.
The fact that I do not approve of this activity is also easily explained by the word, illegal.
Your theology is Anti-Semitic
This is standard default position for people with no argument in the face of being thoroughly refuted.edit on 7-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)
Jude 1:14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 16These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. 17But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. 20But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. 24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
You mean, the Old Testament is true.
The Bible is true. God will defend His people, Israel, and will gather them from where they have been scattered and they WILL accept Jesus Christ. You cannot accept that the Christian would not be if it were not for Israel.
It is an ungodly deed to deny the covenant, because the covenant was made by God Himself.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy
You mean, the Old Testament is true.
The Bible is true. God will defend His people, Israel, and will gather them from where they have been scattered and they WILL accept Jesus Christ. You cannot accept that the Christian would not be if it were not for Israel.
There is a slight contradiction, which is why you have the two separate parts of the Christian Bible, one is the Old Testament, the other is the New Testament.
The New Testament has the good things from God coming through Jesus, God's Son.
What you are doing, seems to me, is ignoring that and looking for further prophetic fulfillment through a people and a nation which is going to bring good things to the world.
If you want to believe that then that is your business and you are free to do so but you are practicing some sot of quasi-Judaism and not authentic Christianity because you would rather rob Jesus and put it all back on a fictional nation.
Luke 1:28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luke 24:25Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 27And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Revelation 15:3And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. 4Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest. 5And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened: 6And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles. 7And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. 8And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
Exodus 15 1Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. 2The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him. 3The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name. 4Pharaoh's chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea: his chosen captains also are drowned in the Red sea. 5The depths have covered them: they sank into the bottom as a stone. 6Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy. 7And in the greatness of thine excellency thou hast overthrown them that rose up against thee: thou sentest forth thy wrath, which consumed them as stubble. 8And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea. 9The enemy said, I will pursue, I will overtake, I will divide the spoil; my lust shall be satisfied upon them; I will draw my sword, my hand shall destroy them. 10Thou didst blow with thy wind, the sea covered them: they sank as lead in the mighty waters.
Jesus never said anywhere that His religion replaced the Jews.
In hindsight, it was the world, as spelled out in the NT, while there were people in Jesus' time who expected Israel to be redeemed and so you get the story of the mother of John and James asking Jesus for her sons to be given positions next to him in his kingdom.
Who did Jesus come to redeem? Israel.
The OT does not directly but again, in hindsight we know it was through Jesus that the promises of good things coming to the earth was through Jesus.
Don't be slow of heart to believe the prophets that spoke of Jesus.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
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In hindsight, it was the world, as spelled out in the NT, while there were people in Jesus' time who expected Israel to be redeemed and so you get the story of the mother of John and James asking Jesus for her sons to be given positions next to him in his kingdom.
Who did Jesus come to redeem? Israel.The OT does not directly but again, in hindsight we know it was through Jesus that the promises of good things coming to the earth was through Jesus.
Don't be slow of heart to believe the prophets that spoke of Jesus.edit on 8-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)
Jesus clearly said he came only to the lost sheep of Israel. You have been provided enough scripture to understand that Christ was an Israelite. He was the one that came to reconcile and lead the nation of Isreal to God as their promised messiah.