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In what order will these men be saved?

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posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


And the funny thing is this, Jews do not proselytize. They can be very happy with us serving Jesus all we want. It is when we attack them and hurt them that they begin to question why we say Jesus loves them, when we show hate through us.

To disagree is not hate, to hurt is to hate.




posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 
I think you have a serious problem if you can not refrain from using profanity in a post where you could easily go back and edit it out, so it is not like you don't have control over what you say, or if you really don't then you have severe psychological issues you need to get help with.
I find this very distasteful and offensive to use such vulgarity in a post where you are talking about Jesus.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by curious7
 

Woah, Jews are following a false religion created by anti-Christians or something?

Excuse me, but, YES.
As in, DUH?



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

That's OK, Jim Dewey just does not have faith in God for God to keep His promises. And I can show you how the devil works in this....

It's called, Christianity.
You seem to have the label but not the substance.
Jesus was rejected by his own, and killed with Roman help, the same people who came back later and cleaned them off the face of the earth as being a people on that bit of land.
The promise, according to the New Testament, was replaced with a new promise, and so the title, New Testament.
edit on 7-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


I agree, he did make an everlasting covenant with them. Moreover, Yahuwah also told Abraham that he was unchanging. This means that once he makes a covenant he does not break it, not ever.

The entire purpose of the new testament was to proclaim the arrival of the Messiah, of Yahuwah with us in person. This is why Jesus told the apostles to go forth and spread the good news. The savior has come. If the jews were not a holy people the Messiah would not have been chosen from them.

In fact, what happens to those who come against the Israelites to destroy them? in Revelation Yahuwah destroys them instead, because they are still his chosen people, he has only shifted his focus in taking a people for himself from the gentiles and when he has reached the full number of gentiles.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy
 

That's OK, Jim Dewey just does not have faith in God for God to keep His promises. And I can show you how the devil works in this....

It's called, Christianity.
You seem to have the label but not the substance.
Jesus was rejected by his own, and killed with Roman help, the same people who came back later and cleaned them off the face of the earth as being a people on that bit of land.
The promise, according to the New Testament, was replaced with a new promise, and so the title, New Testament.
edit on 7-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Yes, it appears that I do have the same label that you do, but a very different substance.

Who taught you that the Romans wiped them off the face of the earth? Was that what you discovered on your own, or are you part of the organization of the Church of Christ? I will ask this of you, prove it that the Jews were completely wiped out by the Romans until not one was left. Can you prove it?

Show me any historical evidence, show me archeological evidence, show me anthropological evidence.


The Bar Kokhba revolt 132–136 CE;[2] Hebrew: מרד בר כוכבא‎ or mered bar kokhba) against the Roman Empire, was the third major rebellion by the Jews of Judaea Province being the last of the Jewish-Roman Wars. Simon bar Kokhba, the commander of the revolt, was acclaimed as a Messiah, a heroic figure who could restore Israel. The revolt established an independent state of Israel over parts of Judea for over two years, but a Roman army made up of six full legions with auxiliaries and elements from up to six additional legions finally crushed it.[3] The Romans then barred Jews from Jerusalem, except to attend Tisha B'Av. Although Jewish Christians hailed Jesus as the Messiah and did not support Bar Kokhba, they were barred from Jerusalem along with the rest of the Jews. The war and its aftermath helped differentiate Christianity as a religion distinct from Judaism, see also List of events in early Christianity.The rebellion is also known as The Third Jewish-Roman War or The Third Jewish Revolt, though some historians relate it as Second Jewish Revolt, not counting the Kitos War, 115–117 CE.


Cassius Dio, Roman History (book 69), Aelius Spartianus, Life of Hadrian (in the Augustan History),
www.pbs.org...

Many of the Judaean Jews were sold into slavery while others became citizens of other parts of the Roman Empire. The book of Acts in the New Testament, as well as other Pauline texts, make frequent reference to the large populations of Hellenised Jews in the cities of the Roman world. These Hellenised Jews were only affected by the diaspora in its spiritual sense, absorbing the feeling of loss and homelessness which became a cornerstone of the Jewish creed, much supported by persecutions in various parts of the world. The policy towards proselytism and conversion to Judaism, which spread the Jewish religion throughout the Hellenistic civilization, seems to have subsided with the wars against the Romans and the following reconstruction of Jewish values for the post-Temple era.



In spite of the failure of the Bar Kokhba revolt, Jews remained in the Land of Israel in significant numbers. The Jews who remained there went through numerous experiences and armed conflicts against consecutive occupiers of the Land. Some of the most famous and important Jewish texts were composed in Israeli cities at this time. The Jerusalem Talmud, the completion of the Mishnah and the system of niqqud are examples.


You cannot prove that false statement, because it is a false statement. It denies history as it happened.
edit on 1/7/2012 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

Emperor Hadrian ordered all the Jews out and re-named the place Palestine.
And so you have this distaste for the name to this day by the Jews.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

In fact, what happens to those who come against the Israelites to destroy them?

Sorry, it already happened, that was what I was saying, Israel ceased to be, despite any so-called everlasting covenant.
1 Samuel 12
12:14 If you fear the Lord, serving him and obeying him and not rebelling against what he says, and if both you and the king who rules over you follow the Lord your God, all will be well. 12:15 But if you don’t obey the Lord and rebel against what the Lord says, the hand of the Lord will be against both you and your king.
12:20b Serve the Lord with all your heart.
12:24 However, fear the Lord and serve him faithfully with all your heart. Just look at the great things he has done for you! 12:25 But if you continue to do evil, both you and your king will be swept away.”



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

In fact, what happens to those who come against the Israelites to destroy them?

Sorry, it already happened, that was what I was saying, Israel ceased to be, despite any so-called everlasting covenant.


We didn't make up this "so-called" covenant.

Acts 3:12And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? 13The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. 14But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 15And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. 16And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all. 17And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. 18But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. 20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 22For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 25Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.


Let's go through this...Peter and John went to the temple to pray, a lame man asked for alms, Peter and John prayed for the man to be healed and he was. People then began to praise God. Peter addressed not the common people, but the Pharisees.

Look at some very clear things here, Jesus shall be taken to heaven UNTIL the time of restitution. Peter says "YOU are the CHILDREN of the prophets AND the COVENANT God MADE with OUR FATHERS.

Peter knew the covenant and acknowledged it. And who was it made to? Those people right there he was speaking to. Peter says he knows they did it in ignorance, because it was the will of God.

If there was no covenant, Peter lied.

7But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.


So let's have a draw here, you preach the Gospel of the uncircumcison, and I will preach the Gospel of the circumcision.


39But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.


Paul says in one verse he is an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin and then calls himself a Jew. Has Paul also lied?

40And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,


He spoke in Hebrew, the language still spoken today.

Acts 22:2(And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,) 3I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

edit on 1/7/2012 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)

edit on 1/7/2012 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 09:47 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 

I notice how you conveniently leave out the quote of 1 Samuel 12 and make no mention of it in your post, instead you bring up nonsense about this nonexistent language you are calling Hebrew. "Biblical Hebrew" does not exist outside the Bible itself and was never a spoken language in Canaan as can be determined. So to say anyone spoke Hebrew is just some idealized fantasy world you have made up and why you would even want to do that is beyond me other than you are caught up in an extreme form of idolatry where your god is this belief in an mythical kingdom which once existed.
People in Judea did not in general call themselves Jews and that was a practice you can find created in the Book of Ester which is the exiles of the kingdom of Israel who were deported by the Assyrians to Media which later became part of the Medo/Persian Empire that conquered Babylon. Those people started up the practice of calling themselves Jews which did not come into vogue in the greater world of the Diaspora until after Jerusalem fell to Titus.
Paul calling himself Jew suffers from at least two problems, one being it was recorded in Acts, which is not a first or even second hand account, second it was written in Greek where it is difficult to distinguish the term meaning Jew, or just Judea where it is the same word.

Jesus shall be taken to heaven UNTIL the time of restitution
Eschatology is the last things where the idea is that "the last will be like the first", so like I was saying in an earlier post, the Book of Revelation serves the purpose of showing how all these things from the OT are fulfilled in the Christian Church, where you have Jesus in this paradise with the river and tree of life. That is Eden restored, and this is the "restoration of all things". What you are doing is reading in your own interpretation which ignores everything except for this pseudo-theology you were taught in your quasi-Judaic zionist-supporting religion invented to dupe people into supporting the modern state illegally occupying Palestine.

edit on 7-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by jmdewey60
 

I notice how you conveniently leave out the quote of 1 Samuel 12 and make no mention of it in your post, instead you bring up nonsense about this nonexistent language you are calling Hebrew. "Biblical Hebrew" does not exist outside the Bible itself and was never a spoken language in Canaan as can be determined. So to say anyone spoke Hebrew is just some idealized fantasy world you have made up and why you would even want to do that is beyond me other than you are caught up in an extreme form of idolatry where your god is this belief in an mythical kingdom which once existed.
People in Judea did not in general call themselves Jews and that was a practice you can find created in the Book of Ester which is the exiles of the kingdom of Israel who were deported by the Assyrians to Media which later became part of the Medo/Persian Empire that conquered Babylon. Those people started up the practice of calling themselves Jews which did not come into vogue in the greater world of the Diaspora until after Jerusalem fell to Titus.
Paul calling himself Jew suffers from at least two problems, one being it was recorded in Acts, which is not a first or even second hand account, second it was written in Greek where it is difficult to distinguish the term meaning Jew, or just Judea where it is the same word.

Jesus shall be taken to heaven UNTIL the time of restitution
Eschatology is the last things where the idea is that "the last will be like the first", so like I was saying in an earlier post, the Book of Revelation serves the purpose of showing how all these things from the OT are fulfilled in the Christian Church, where you have Jesus in this paradise with the river and tree of life. That is Eden restored, and this is the "restoration of all things". What you are doing is reading in your own interpretation which ignores everything except for this pseudo-theology you were taught in your quasi-Judaic zionist-supporting religion invented to dupe people into supporting the modern state illegally occupying Palestine.

edit on 7-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



So your real issue is with the Jewish state. We finally dig deeper and deeper and you are showing more and more of what your real politics are. The truth is coming out now. Thank you for finally revealing yourself. We can all stop now because what you are, is mere White Supremacist. You have tried hard to deflect Replacement Theology but finally confessed to that. You have tried hard to cover the teachings of Arnold Murray and British Israelism, but you finally show that.

Your theology is Anti-Semitic and you finally show it. Your theology is based in falsehoods and hatred. Why was it so hard for you to not just come out and say so in the first place? Now, people will associate your username with every Anti-Semitic group, because you have finally said what you believe.

I pray that you will come to the truth.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

So your real issue is with the Jewish state.

No, your problem is you follow a fake religion which is not authentic Christianity but a bogus substitute.
I am just explaining why someone would create such a religion in the first place.
It just so happens that the reason is easily explainable because it is covering for illegal activity.
The fact that I do not approve of this activity is also easily explained by the word, illegal.

Your theology is Anti-Semitic

This is standard default position for people with no argument in the face of being thoroughly refuted.
edit on 7-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy
 

So your real issue is with the Jewish state.

No, your problem is you follow a fake religion which is not authentic Christianity but a bogus substitute.
I am just explaining why someone would create such a religion in the first place.
It just so happens that the reason is easily explainable because it is covering for illegal activity.
The fact that I do not approve of this activity is also easily explained by the word, illegal.

Your theology is Anti-Semitic

This is standard default position for people with no argument in the face of being thoroughly refuted.
edit on 7-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


The conversation is over with us, Jim Dewey. You have not refuted me in any way, you have merely clung to your anti-Semitism, denying the basic truths of the Bible to defend a political stance that you wish there were no more Jews.

The Bible is true. God will defend His people, Israel, and will gather them from where they have been scattered and they WILL accept Jesus Christ. You cannot accept that the Christian would not be if it were not for Israel. So now, what illegal activity am I covering up? I have been very honest and forthright about my faith, I have given you testimony and confession of Jesus Christ. I do not have to defend that to other Christians.

You have made a blanket accusation, because you cannot accept the truth of the Bible. And if you are going to make that accusation, please be prepared with facts to back up your claim, other than "You are a Zionist". I see you seem to be calling me a "NeoCon". Where are your facts, Jim Dewey? You have promoted anti-Semitism, but not very clever about disguising it. Nothing in your research and study proves you have held to Christian beliefs, other than you have found a religious figure to attach to, the same as people do in other religions. You have never stated any personal revelation of Jesus Christ, nor have you presented any personal relationship with Jesus Christ. The rest of us see from your writing, is that you really don't believe in the redemptive work of Jesus at the cross, neither do you accept those prophets that spoke not only of His first coming, but also of His second coming. Those prophets spoke that Israel will be redeemed and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

My Jesus Christ is alive and well, right now, this very minute and is waiting for the command to come to earth to do the job He is to do. I will leave you with this, Jim Dewey...

Jude 1:14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 16These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. 17But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. 20But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. 24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.


It is an ungodly deed to deny the covenant, because the covenant was made by God Himself.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

The Bible is true. God will defend His people, Israel, and will gather them from where they have been scattered and they WILL accept Jesus Christ. You cannot accept that the Christian would not be if it were not for Israel.
You mean, the Old Testament is true.
There is a slight contradiction, which is why you have the two separate parts of the Christian Bible, one is the Old Testament, the other is the New Testament.
The New Testament has the good things from God coming through Jesus, God's Son.
What you are doing, seems to me, is ignoring that and looking for further prophetic fulfillment through a people and a nation which is going to bring good things to the world.
If you want to believe that then that is your business and you are free to do so but you are practicing some sot of quasi-Judaism and not authentic Christianity because you would rather rob Jesus and put it all back on a fictional nation.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

It is an ungodly deed to deny the covenant, because the covenant was made by God Himself.

Before condemning me, how about addressing my earlier post where I quoted 1 Samuel?
God made a covenant, then the people repudiated it and demanded to be ruled by a king.
This essentially negated the older covenant and created a new one where if the kings ruled well and followed God, all would be well with the people but if the kings ruled badly and did not follow God, then they would be swept away.
This is exactly what happened and more than once, and this latest attempt by man to force God's hand in supporting their new Nation will end the same way, in my opinion.
edit on 8-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy
 

The Bible is true. God will defend His people, Israel, and will gather them from where they have been scattered and they WILL accept Jesus Christ. You cannot accept that the Christian would not be if it were not for Israel.
You mean, the Old Testament is true.
There is a slight contradiction, which is why you have the two separate parts of the Christian Bible, one is the Old Testament, the other is the New Testament.
The New Testament has the good things from God coming through Jesus, God's Son.
What you are doing, seems to me, is ignoring that and looking for further prophetic fulfillment through a people and a nation which is going to bring good things to the world.
If you want to believe that then that is your business and you are free to do so but you are practicing some sot of quasi-Judaism and not authentic Christianity because you would rather rob Jesus and put it all back on a fictional nation.


The Old Testament and the New Testament are true. Jim Dewey, please believe in the God of Jesus Christ. The Father and the Son. Jesus did not suddenly appear one day and make a whole new religion. The religion of Jesus Christ continues the faith of the Jews, Jesus never said anywhere that His religion replaced the Jews.


The whole Bible is true. Denial will not make it less true. The covenant is true.

Who did Jesus come to redeem? Israel. How can Jesus redeem a people who do not exist? That makes Jesus a liar.

Luke 1:28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.


Luke 24:25Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 27And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


Don't be slow of heart to believe the prophets that spoke of Jesus.

Revelation 15:3And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. 4Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest. 5And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened: 6And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles. 7And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. 8And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.



Exodus 15 1Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. 2The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him. 3The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name. 4Pharaoh's chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea: his chosen captains also are drowned in the Red sea. 5The depths have covered them: they sank into the bottom as a stone. 6Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy. 7And in the greatness of thine excellency thou hast overthrown them that rose up against thee: thou sentest forth thy wrath, which consumed them as stubble. 8And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea. 9The enemy said, I will pursue, I will overtake, I will divide the spoil; my lust shall be satisfied upon them; I will draw my sword, my hand shall destroy them. 10Thou didst blow with thy wind, the sea covered them: they sank as lead in the mighty waters.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

Jesus never said anywhere that His religion replaced the Jews.

Paul said it directly and with illustrations so there is no possibility to misunderstand the point.
Jesus said it a little indirectly when he said the time is soon coming when God will be worshiped in spirit and truth, then more directly, if you understand what he meant, when he said, "It is finished" where the old religion was finished.

Who did Jesus come to redeem? Israel.
In hindsight, it was the world, as spelled out in the NT, while there were people in Jesus' time who expected Israel to be redeemed and so you get the story of the mother of John and James asking Jesus for her sons to be given positions next to him in his kingdom.

Don't be slow of heart to believe the prophets that spoke of Jesus.
The OT does not directly but again, in hindsight we know it was through Jesus that the promises of good things coming to the earth was through Jesus.
edit on 8-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2012 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
[

Who did Jesus come to redeem? Israel.
In hindsight, it was the world, as spelled out in the NT, while there were people in Jesus' time who expected Israel to be redeemed and so you get the story of the mother of John and James asking Jesus for her sons to be given positions next to him in his kingdom.

Don't be slow of heart to believe the prophets that spoke of Jesus.
The OT does not directly but again, in hindsight we know it was through Jesus that the promises of good things coming to the earth was through Jesus.
edit on 8-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Mathew 15:21-28
21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”
23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”
24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.
26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”
28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.

Jesus clearly said he came only to the lost sheep of Israel. You have been provided enough scripture to understand that Christ was an Israelite. He was the one that came to reconcile and lead the nation of Isreal to God as their promised messiah.

But he was not only the promised messiah for Israel he was the bringer of a New Covenant so that we may all become sons and daughters of the promise made to Abraham. The promise was not changed it was made perfect. For what the law was unable to do the knowledge of Christ in you could do. Teach you to follow the one true commandment love.



posted on Jan, 10 2012 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

Jesus clearly said he came only to the lost sheep of Israel. You have been provided enough scripture to understand that Christ was an Israelite. He was the one that came to reconcile and lead the nation of Isreal to God as their promised messiah.

OK, post a list of those OT verses and let's have a look at them.



posted on Jan, 10 2012 @ 10:41 AM
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I believe your whole concept has flaws. It's not about the order they are accepted in to heaven but more about the cleansing process, that enables one to be in the presence of God. You are either cleansed here by the Holy Spirit or you will be cleansed on the other side. Then it becomes a matter of how long you will be cleansed here or there. There is no getting out of it if a person is dedicated and determined to be in the presence of God. The only other option is outer darkness, which is basically separation from God, and from accounts I've read and witnessed through a dream - it's not a place anyone wants to be.

I won't use the word purgatory as the place for cleansing but agree with the Jews on a place of spiritual purificaiton before they can enter Olam Haba.

Because of the wording in your text, it doesn't appear any of the 7 were cleansed in the here and now, so all will be subjected to it on the other side. The Jews believe 11 months is the maximum time for purification on the other side and I always side with them.

G - is the closest alignment to what is expected but doesn't mention being cleansed here with baptism of fire, so it must still take place.

A - believes something but neither accepted nor denied Jesus as being the Son

D - is the oddball out but doesn't follow a teaching that explicitly teaches Jesus isn't the Son. he's just all over the place

B - denies Jesus being the Son

C - denies Jesus being the Son and treats people harshly

E - Is ignorant

F - is a parrot and has much to account for




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