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In what order will these men be saved?

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posted on Jan, 6 2012 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy
 

The description of Jesus in Revelation....He stood in the midst of the the Seven-branched candlestick, the menorah.
That does not even make sense, there would have been seven candle sticks and the original Menorah was not a candle stick, it was a oil lamp so this is just more of your propaganda nonsense to bend scripture around to fit your Judaism.


Pictures, pictures...



And this one...



Menorah, that is exactly what it was in the tabernacle and the temple.

The menorah symbolized the ideal of universal enlightenment. The seven branches allude to the branches of human knowledge, represented by the six lamps inclined inwards towards, and symbolically guided by, the light of God represented by the central lamp. The menorah also symbolizes the creation in seven days, with the center light representing the Sabbath. It is also said to symbolize the burning bush as seen by Moses on Mount Horeb (Exodus 3).


And this link is about the tabernacle as it was...
Part of God's Prophetic Plan

Jesus stood in the midst..that means He is the Light of God..which you have in your status. He was represented by that middle one, the one which all others are drawn to.




posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 01:10 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


My perspective is that knowing what I do about prophecy in the Bible, people on this forum presume to be greater than all the prophets put together, plus Jesus and God thrown in.


Hopefully I don't come across as greater, for I know I am not worthy of that title. I am just someone who is in love with Jesus.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by curious7
There is no order, to rank and file them in such a way would be to judge and put your own beliefs a. of the needs of others.

I am A although I'm on the fence about God's existence and not totally conmvinced he exists but even so, why should I be saved before the others and why should they be saved before me?

All men are equal as it says in many religious texts.


It says that in the bible too. Unfortunately most Christians don't understand the Christ they claim to believe in. This was the reason for the thread to point out Christian hypocrisy. As a follower of Christ I am called to help my brothers when they are in error. Many of my posts that seem controversial to Christians make perfect since to non Christians.

This is because all love comes from Christ, and Christ is within all who love. So we all follow the same God, making us all equal.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Honestly I didn't know there was a waiting line when you pass...


Could someone point to that particular piece of scripture for me...

They all get into "heaven"... by the way.... and their deeds will be judged according to Gods will...

Matthew 19:30
But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

Mark 10:31
But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.

Luke 13:30
And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.



I am trying to explain Christians their Christ and teach non believers about how to find what is in them. If you fail to interpret than they are left no better than they were before.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 01:22 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


The issue is you're trying to teach... when you're still do not know...




posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 01:24 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


The issue is you're trying to teach... when you're still do not know...



If you know than why don't you teach?



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


The issue is you're trying to teach... when you're still do not know...



If you know than why don't you teach?


Those who know do not teach...

but those that teach do not know...




posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


The issue is you're trying to teach... when you're still do not know...



If you know than why don't you teach?


Those who know do not teach...

but those that teach do not know...



Why don't you let the Holy Spirit type on the keyboard for a minute so we may all understand the truth?



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 01:43 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


That is the case every time im on here...

Unless of course im just being a smart ass... which i don't do in religious threads... usually...


edit on 7-1-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

I don't get you, I say that a seven branched oil lamp is not the same as someone walking among seven candle sticks, and you ignore it to pretend your little delusional dream of Judaism being alive and well while Christianity vanishes like a mist in the wind.
Sorry that you were born into a false anti-christ religion invented by worshipers of Satan but at some point you need to grow up and become an adult who takes responsibility for his own beliefs.

edit on 7-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 06:13 AM
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No one is judged; that is a human trait. If God is truly personified, he is above such nonsense.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy
 

I don't get you, I say that a seven branched oil lamp is not the same as someone walking among seven candle sticks, and you ignore it to pretend your little delusional dream of Judaism being alive and well while Christianity vanishes like a mist in the wind.
Sorry that you were born into a false anti-christ religion invented by worshipers of Satan but at some point you need to grow up and become an adult who takes responsibility for his own beliefs.

edit on 7-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Before we fly off the handle and go ballistic, (which I am not because you don't bother me enough), explain to me what the "false anti-Christ religion invented by worshipers of Satan" is.

I have said I confess with my mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, and have believed in Him in my heart. I have repented and born again, I was baptized by immersion in water in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, and have received the baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire. How much more Christian can I be?

Judaism is alive and the Jews will be redeemed because the Bible says so.

Romans 11:25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. 29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.


Don't be ignorant of the mystery, brother. All of Israel shall be saved, as it is written. This is HIS covenant with them. They are elect and beloved of the Father.

Don't be ignorant in your conceits, brother.


Romans 8:27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.


Paul says the Jews are the elect, therefore lay no charge against the elect. God justified them. Don't even be conceited enough to believe that as a Christian, you have been made elect, you have been merely grafted into the vine.

I am a Christian and fully accept that I have been grafted in, but that I am justified by faith. Don't lay anything to their charge, because God will open their eyes one day.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

. . . you have been merely grafted into the vine.

I am a Christian and fully accept that I have been grafted in . . .


It may be relevant and also important to mention that the vine is Jesus.

The church, meaning the body of Christ, is grafted to the root which is the blessings of God.

We are not grafted onto Judaism, the tribe of Judah, or the nation of Israel. We are sons, ourselves, to God with no intermediary involved other than Jesus who is our brother, so we have a full fledged relationship which is not secondary, inferior to or dependent on anyone else.

Paul is saying we need to keep in mind that as the Jews were cut off and their space was given to us, we could also fail and be cut off ourselves, so don't be prideful or self-confident.
If Israel is redeemed it would be the through the exact same process as what happens to everyone else.
edit on 7-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


The issue is you're trying to teach... when you're still do not know...



If you know than why don't you teach?


Those who know do not teach...

but those that teach do not know...



In other words you don't know jacksh*t. I'm sorry but i don't buy any of that. Youre the type of person the Messiah would condemn. All you know is the truth of your own lies.
edit on 7-1-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy
 

. . . you have been merely grafted into the vine.

I am a Christian and fully accept that I have been grafted in . . .


It may be relevant and also important to mention that the vine is Jesus.

The church, meaning the body of Christ, is grafted to the root which is the blessings of God.

We are not grafted onto Judaism, the tribe of Judah, or the nation of Israel. We are sons, ourselves, to God with no intermediary involved other than Jesus who is our brother, so we have a full fledged relationship which is not secondary, inferior to or dependent on anyone else.

Paul is saying we need to keep in mind that as the Jews were cut off and their space was given to us, we could also fail and be cut off ourselves, so don't be prideful or self-confident.
If Israel is redeemed it would be the through the exact same process as what happens to everyone else.
edit on 7-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


You did not read the verse at all, did you? Well let me post the verses just prior to that...


Romans 11:13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?


Who is Paul speaking to here? Gentiles....you and I.
Who is Paul speaking about? The Jews.

For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

No matter how you disregard the scripture, you are basically denying the very teaching of Paul regarding the Jews.

Does it say all or some? It says some. And it continues to say the branches, which are the Jews, are holy, and the Christian believer is grafted on to the branch, and therefore made holy as well. I will go on to say that according to the Bible, they are holy. Neither you nor I can change what God has called holy or what God has made holy.

Didn't God make clean the animals He presented to Peter and told him to eat? What God makes holy, is holy. What God makes clean is clean. But to call it unholy, what God has made holy, is a sin. God made the Jews holy the first moment He sealed the covenant with Abraham. That covenant is an everlasting covenant.

Genesis 17: 7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.



Exodus 40:15And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.



Leviticus 16:34And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.



Psalm 105:10And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:


Here is the meaning of the word everlasting...

never coming to an end; lasting forever; eternal going on for a long time; lasting indefinitely; durable going on too long or happening too often; seeming never to stop


God made an everlasting covenant with them, who are you to deny it?
edit on 1/7/2012 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

God made an everlasting covenant with them, who are you to deny it?

There is no prerequisite for having an opinion unless you have just prophesied a new Law from God.
There is a mention of some sort of promise by this man going by the name, YHWH.
After Abraham had a conversation with this man, he fell asleep as if he was in a trance and had a dream about a pot of fire and a smoking urn passing between the parts of animals he had cut up as a way to invoke God or something. Or so it is said in some writings that have been presented as evidence to a land claim against the native inhabitants of Canaan, now Palestine.

I would like to quote some verses from the Bible myself since you seem to enjoy such things. This comes from the Old Testament in First Chronicles, Sixteen. These are the words of David upon the occasion of bringing the ark into Jerusalem.

O children of Israel, God’s servant,
you descendants of Jacob, God’s chosen ones!
He is the Lord our God;
he carries out judgment throughout the earth.
Remember continually his covenantal decree,
the promise he made to a thousand generations –
the promise he made to Abraham,
the promise he made by oath to Isaac!
He gave it to Jacob as a decree,
to Israel as a lasting promise,
saying, “To you I will give the land of Canaan
as the portion of your inheritance.”
When they were few in number,
just a very few, and foreign residents within it,
they wandered from nation to nation,
and from one kingdom to another.
He let no one oppress them,
he disciplined kings for their sake,
saying, “Don’t touch my anointed ones!
Don’t harm my prophets!”
Sing to the Lord, all the earth!
Announce every day how he delivers!
Tell the nations about his splendor,
tell all the nations about his miraculous deeds!
For the Lord is great and certainly worthy of praise,
he is more awesome than all gods.
For all the gods of the nations are worthless,
but the Lord made the heavens.
Majestic splendor emanates from him,
he is the source of strength and joy.
Ascribe to the Lord, O families of the nations,
ascribe to the Lord splendor and strength!
Ascribe to the Lord the splendor he deserves!


As it turned out, we have one example (out of at least two) of the complete failure of this in that, in fact, Rome with its gods killed the anointed of God and His Prophet, namely, Jesus Christ, and subsequently destroyed the temple that had been standing on the spot where David had brought the Ark.
Not only was Israel (or at least the Jews who represented themselves as being the "remnant" of Israel) oppressed by a foreign god working through a foreign nation, but it was eliminated completely from the map.

All is not lost because Paul informs us that the old promises was replaced by a better one which is beneficial for all people and not just one exclusive group.

Now, all these promises as spoken here by David are fulfilled in the saints of Christ and you see all of these images brought to life in the Book of Revelation, showing that the new Israel are the Christians who make up the church.

edit on 7-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


The issue is you're trying to teach... when you're still do not know...



If you know than why don't you teach?


Those who know do not teach...

but those that teach do not know...



In other words you don't know jacksh*t. I'm sorry but i don't buy any of that. Youre the type of person the Messiah would condemn. All you know is the truth of your own lies.
edit on 7-1-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)


Believe what you wish... that is your judgement... feel free

i couldn't care less what you think of me...

And i wasn't talking to you either way... was i...


edit on 7-1-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by curious7
There is no order, to rank and file them in such a way would be to judge and put your own beliefs a. of the needs of others.

I am A although I'm on the fence about God's existence and not totally conmvinced he exists but even so, why should I be saved before the others and why should they be saved before me?

All men are equal as it says in many religious texts.


It says that in the bible too. Unfortunately most Christians don't understand the Christ they claim to believe in. This was the reason for the thread to point out Christian hypocrisy. As a follower of Christ I am called to help my brothers when they are in error. Many of my posts that seem controversial to Christians make perfect since to non Christians.

This is because all love comes from Christ, and Christ is within all who love. So we all follow the same God, making us all equal.


And that's why I thank you for this thread because before and since my post, it seemed like a majority of religious folk are too caught up in arguing over things, throwing insults, misinterpreting and in jmdewey's case, beign completely wrong about things that are written, known about and used to this day.

It really comes to something when I as an agnostic (I guess I can be classified as such) seems more enlightened in Christ's teachings than those who spend most of their lives with a nose in the Bible and a foot under the pews every sunday.

I hope the rest of your life is blessed for trying to spread this message.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Woah, Jews are following a false religion created by anti-Christians or something?

Please, for your sake, do as the OP is trying and love.

Also, Jesus himself was a Jew, born and raised by Jews in a society where you were either a follower of Judaism or a follower of the Roman religions.

Christianity wasn't born until long after Jesus died on that cross.

Please don't insult other members again and claim they are wrong just because they don't follow your own religion because people like yourself give your religion a bad name.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by curious7
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Woah, Jews are following a false religion created by anti-Christians or something?

Please, for your sake, do as the OP is trying and love.

Also, Jesus himself was a Jew, born and raised by Jews in a society where you were either a follower of Judaism or a follower of the Roman religions.

Christianity wasn't born until long after Jesus died on that cross.

Please don't insult other members again and claim they are wrong just because they don't follow your own religion because people like yourself give your religion a bad name.


That's OK, Jim Dewey just does not have faith in God for God to keep His promises. And I can show you how the devil works in this....

"God does not keep His promises...because He can't...and if He can't, then He is not powerful enough...and if He is not powerful enough...then He can be overthrown..and if He can be overthrown, then He isn't God at all, and the one that overthrows Him is now god..."

The god Jim Dewey believes in is not capable of keeping promises, therefore it only stands to reason, that god is a strange one. The God I believe in has established His word forever.

The moment you say God has nullified His own word and promise, then you no longer believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Jesus. There is a reason God changed Jacob's name to Israel, because He will forever be called "The God of Israel".

Yes, we have a new testament by Jesus Christ, and it brings the Gentiles to the same God, but the Bible tells us over and over again that one day, the Jewish nation WILL turn to Jesus Christ. If you say no, it won't happen, then what you are really saying is that God is not able to do what He said He would do. Salvation is of the Jews. I am thankful that God loved me, a Gentile, enough to bring me to Him through Jesus Christ.




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