Chemtrails Are Good For Us.

So, what is your opinion on..,

The National Agricultural Aviation Association?

NAAA represents more than 1,300 members in 46 states. The majority of NAAA members are licensed as commercial applicator-operators that use aircraft to enhance food and fiber production, protect forestry, and control health-threatening pests. The NAAA contributes to research and educational programs focused on enhancing the efficacy and safety of aerial application.

Operation S.A.F.E

Operation S.A.F.E. is a comprehensive program of education, professional analysis of application, and commitment to the principles outlined by the NAAA Board of Directors. NAAA is convinced that full implementation of Operation S.A.F.E. offers substantial advantages to the operator, his customers, and the producers of chemicals applied by air. These advantages are found in economy of operation and application, as well an in increased safety and reduced health and environmental concerns.

And their Government funding?

A second issue where grassroots teamwork from NAAA members has been and will continue to be important pertains to NAAA�s efforts to increase federal funding for aerial application technology research.

- Looks like a non-profit organization of aerial sprayers to me. Looks like they operate in 92% of the United States of America.

- Looks to me like they're a bit concerned about public health and the environment.

- Looks to me like they're setting up a lobbying group to fund more applications, even though the government is already actively involved in preventing aerial spraying from becoming a larger terror threat.

So there it is, Howard. I wish I had more time on my hands to show you more, but someone's gotta go make the donuts.

Dot.

i saw a real contrail yesterday. three even. beeyuteefull. all fluffy and expanding in both directions. not all fibrous and looking like combed out cotton batting. just cotton batting. like a cloud. man, it's been so long since i've seen that, i was starting to believe howard (this is joke. laugh now!)

The contrail issue I think is caused by older aircraft with less fuel efficient engines which produce more hydrocarbons and high amounts of moisture, which in the upper atmosphere freezes and you see the exhaust.

If you notice, the amount of con-trails are more prevalent in the fall, winter, spring because of the cooler upper atmosphere temps than in the summer.

Its like in the winter on a cold day when you exhale, you can see your breath, same principle, but instead its the aircrafts exhaust not your breath.

Have you ever seen a plane spraying a field?

It is kind of neat, and the skill of the pilots is amazing. One time I watched a small biplane spraying a field near Chandler Az. The plane was flying 10 to 15 feet off the ground. When he reached the end of the field, he would pull straight up and flip around in an Immelman turn, drop back down and spray the next pass.


How do you equate that with a commercial airliner flying at 30,000 feet??

Here is a great example of how the relative humidity can vary with a slight change in the altitude.

another great contrail photo

and finally, contrails are not always arrow straight.

Originally posted by SIRR1
The contrail issue I think is caused by older aircraft with less fuel efficient engines which produce more hydrocarbons and high amounts of moisture, which in the upper atmosphere freezes and you see the exhaust.

If you notice, the amount of con-trails are more prevalent in the fall, winter, spring because of the cooler upper atmosphere temps than in the summer.

Its like in the winter on a cold day when you exhale, you can see your breath, same principle, but instead its the aircrafts exhaust not your breath.

Actually, I think it is the other way around, The newer, high bypass engines are more fuel efficient, so fuel combustion is more complete (i.e. the exhaust contains more water and less partially combusted hydrocarbons).

howardroark,
yes your are correct. I have it backwards.
Newer engines produce more water.

Thanks john

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Have you ever seen a plane spraying a field?

I live in North Dakota. What do you think?

It is kind of neat, and the skill of the pilots is amazing. One time I watched a small biplane spraying a field near Chandler Az. The plane was flying 10 to 15 feet off the ground. When he reached the end of the field, he would pull straight up and flip around in an Immelman turn, drop back down and spray the next pass.

If the pilots are amazing, what makes you think there are no amazing pilots spraying chemical emissions from airplanes above fifteen feet?

How do you equate that with a commercial airliner flying at 30,000 feet??

Because if you give an inch, you give a foot. Now you are agreeing that indeed non-flight essential chemicals are in fact sprayed from airplaines, that there are pilots and airplanes capable of doing so, only that it solely occurs below 30,000 feet.

I'm not arguing that H2O, altitude, velocity, tilt, wingspan, drag, turbulence, et. al., are not factors. I am displaying the evident:

a) that planes make lines in the sky - look up and see them

b) that chemicals being sprayed from planes is a common practice in 48 states, as stated in my links

c) that these chemicals are being toted as for our benefit, as stated in my links

Therefore, the title of this forum remains true.

dot.

Dotgov, Were they spraying chemtrails over Germany in World War II also?








here is a site with information on contrails.

OK, dotgov, if you want, lets look at your theory in detail.

Originally posted by dotgov101
1) Chemtrails are real. Even twenty years ago when I was a young child my father would take me to air shows to see the Blue Angels, which would spray colorful trails across the sky. This was twenty years ago, folks. Back then you could even rent a plane to spray messages to your loved one. Now flip forward to twenty years later. During the past twenty years we have experienced a technological advancement like no other during humanity. This advancement isn't solely about bigger TV's and smaller cell phones, this advancement also includes government technology and aspirations.

You started this paragraph with the proposition that chemtrails are real, but you have offered no proof in support of that proposition. (BTW, I am reasonably certain that you can still hire a sky writer if you wanted to, but it probably cost a lot more now then it did 20 years ago.

How do you know that chemtrails are real? Just because you see an airplane making a persistent contrail across the sky is not proof. As you can see from my post above with the B-17s, persistent contrails have been around for a long time.

Again I ask the question:

Where is your proof that chemtrails are real?

2) I live in an area where the local commerce depends on two things, crops and the military. The food supply and the military are the two utmost things that a government protects, with its citizens a close third (sad but true).

Your ideas on government priorities seems rather simplistic to me. A government is made up of people just like you and me. and people being people, they will seek to protect what important to them.

Are you implying that this program is targeted to your area specifically?

Have you ever flown accros the U.S.? The majority of this country is crop land or range. What about the rest of the U.S.

How do chemtrails help the military?

3) The final result of the spraying is an additional, lower cloud cover. This is what leads to my hypothesis.

Now it is true that there is a link between contrails and cloud cover. However that does not prove the existence of �chemtrails.� Furthermore, these contrails are the results of normal air traffic activity. They are a side effect of the fact that someone needs to fly from Schenectady, NY to Barstow, CA. They are not deliberately made.

Hypothesis The government is spraying to protect us, and our crops, from the harmful UV rays that resulted from the current deterioration of our atmosphere. By producing an additional and fake cloud cover they are ensuring that our crops and our citizens do not fry.

I have a couple of issues with this.

1. The status of any deterioration of the atmosphere has not been thoroughly proven. I am not saying that it doesn�t exist, just that we really don�t know for sure what is going on.
   
   
2. Is U.V. radiation a problem in your area?
   
   
3. What is the degree of benefit of the �fake cloud cover?� How much U.V. radiation is blocked?
   
   
4. What about those days when there is no cloud cover (�fake� or real)? Isn�t the U.V. radiation present on those days also?
   
   
   

   
   Arguing that chemtrails do not exist is like saying mosquito sprayers do not exist. Sure, they are most likely spraying chemicals, but chemicals exist in all areas of our daily lives. Our water supply, our food supply, our air, our cigarettes all contain chemicals in one form or another. Some of our daily actions include inhaling/eating/drinking pathogenic substances. All species produce waste in one form or another, whether it be chemical or biological. I am suggesting that perhaps, just maybe, the government is trying to do something about the effects of ozone depletion.

   
   
   What do any of these things have to do with your proposal that chemtrails exist?
   
   Now if by chemtrails you mean typical jet engine combustion products like water, CO2, and an handful of trace compounds, then yes, I will agree with you. These things to exist and are released from the airplanes flying overhead. They are also released by cars trucks, etc. This is an entirely different issue and I would be more than happy to discuss it with you.
   
   Now, I want you to stop and think about the scale of what you are suggesting.
   
   OK, let's say the government (by this I take it that you mean just the U.S.) is flying thousands of airplanes all day long over the entire U.S.A. This means thousands of pilots, mechanics, and other ground support personell have to be involved, not to mention the hundreds of bases. Airfields, etc.
   
   Who are these people?
   
   Where are these planes located?
   
   How much money and material does it take to fly these �Spray flights.�
   
   Where is this money coming from?
   
   What are these chemicals that they are spraying?
   
   What happens to these chemicals in the environment?

Chemtrails: The next White Elephant project from a nation with too much money than it knows what to do with. Like the Maginot Line and Seigfried Line of the past, this will unlikely turn up any considerable results when what should really be done is more of an offensive approach rather than of defense approach (i.e. reduction of oil and coal consumption). What good are chemtrails when half a world away the Chinese have no choice but to consume more fossil fuels thereby creating an influx of climate change wiping out all of the contrail work done in America? Rather than risking money on a project that might work, America would be better off doing something else.

Originally posted by risitar
Chemtrails: The next White Elephant project from a nation with too much money than it knows what to do with. Like the Maginot Line and Seigfried Line of the past, this will unlikely turn up any considerable results when what should really be done is more of an offensive approach rather than of defense approach (i.e. reduction of oil and coal consumption). What good are chemtrails when half a world away the Chinese have no choice but to consume more fossil fuels thereby creating an influx of climate change wiping out all of the contrail work done in America? Rather than risking money on a project that might work, America would be better off doing something else.

No, and Yes.

You start out with a failed premise, that chemtrails are real, but you make an excellent point along the way.

Chemtrails are not real. Contrails are real. They are the byproduct of jet fuel compustin at high altitudes. There are a lot of contrails overhead, because there is a lot of air traffic overhead. This is normal air traffic, commercial airlines, air freight, charter and private planes, and yes the occasional military flight as well.

Your point on the futility of the whole chemtrail concept is valid, however. Why would the U.S. waste the effort to do this? Let�s not forget that chemtrail believers have pointed to contrails world wide as evidence of a chemtrail conspiracy, yet they can never say exactly who is behind this and where all of these resources come from.

Not only can�t you point to a specific group of people as being behind this so-called spray program, but your whole premise is, is that these people are so stupid to believe that this program will work.

If some one has told you about chemtrails and you believed them, then face it, you have been had.

That�s okay, a lot of people fell for the hoax when it first came out a few years back.

Here is the site of one person who fell for the hoax, then after researching it a bit, realized she had been had.