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Is there a link between the Illuminati and the Masons?

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posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 02:25 PM
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Lots of people say the Illuminati are strongly linked with the Freemasons and they are part of the NWO.
However, I saw people post on here that they are just a social group and really helpful?

Can someone help explain where the link originates from?




posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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absolutely, the Illuminati give the masons there orders.

although i'm not saying all masons are bad, most aren't even aware of this connection



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by pocketsando
absolutely, the Illuminati give the masons there orders.

although i'm not saying all masons are bad, most aren't even aware of this connection


Is it just the highest of the Masons?
Like the 33 Degrees masters in the US?



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by jNormal
 


close, the 33rd degree masons are often Illuminati, but don't necessarily have to be.

But yea, your on the right track.

Illuminati is also known as The Committee of 300



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 02:41 PM
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Those very dangerous orders.

I know charity drives and potlucks scare the crap out of me.......



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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The Bavarian Illuminati was started in 1776 by Adam Weishaupt. They were anti-king and anti-pope, enlightenment era pseudo-anarchists who believed that man should rule himself. While they were an active organization, they did their best to recruit members (including Mozart) from local Masonic lodges that were already established in Bavaria, and they, in fact, patterned some of their own structure after the Masonic degrees. The Bavarian Illuminati was disbanded in 1786, ten years after it formed, and there's no evidence that they still exist in any form today.
edit on 2012.1.5 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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yea, they both like weird shapes



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by ZeroUnlmtd
yea, they both like weird shapes
The only symbol actually known to be used by the Bavarian Illuminati was the circumpunct.
I guess you could call it weird, but it's actually one of the oldest symbols known to mankind…



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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dont get me wrong i believe that ALMOST every freemason out the is a morally outstanding person and is one of those people always willing to help out the community. I will however take the time to say that i beleive the illuminatti still exist and that they hide themselves inside freemasonry and use it as an extra blanket to cover themselves with.



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by jNormal
 

I think they are all connected ,all wise , and above all real ,the Freemasons go way back to the Egyptian times .
Royalty in the united kingdom ie the queen is related to romans so it is mentioned , the knights templars again have a connection , What I would like to know is it for the good of the many or the few because recently greed has blinded some at the expence of the many
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posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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Sure there is the Illuminati infiltrated the masons long time ago . Some of the masons that founded the united states of america were in fact illuminati .



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by pocketsando
absolutely, the Illuminati give the masons there orders.

although i'm not saying all masons are bad, most aren't even aware of this connection


please be kind enough to let people know what is fact and what is opinion.

Facts can be proven with evidence. Throwing around opinions like you are is how rumors get started.

The Illuminati is one of two things:

1. a disbanded organization as history would suggest

2. the most secret "secret society" that exists seeing as how the only evidence anyone can come up with is pictures of JZ making a triangle with his fingers.



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


i Don't believe that the illuminati trully disbanned and here's why



“By this plan we shall direct all mankind. In this manner, and by the simplest means, we shall set all in motion and in flames. The occupations must be so allotted and contrived, that we may, in secret, influence all political transactions. I have considered every thing, and so prepared it, that if the Order should this day go to ruin, I shall in a year re-establish it more brilliant than ever.”




“This can be done in no other way but by secret associations, which will by degrees, and in silence, possess themselves of the government of the States, and make use of those means for this purpose.”


These are both quotes from Adam Weishaupt the founder of the illuminati. This second quote to me is the icing on the cake really. This can be done in no other way but by secret associations... What this says to me is that the illuminati were planning to penetrate a secret society to help hide themselves from being found. when they were found out by the king of bavaria at the time Weishaupt had said that they had already penetrated the government. Even the British Columbia freemasonry website talks about the illuminati being around halfway through of the 20th century. Which begs the question if a secret society could survive the disbanding then be successful for another 150 years in hiding what makes you think they haven't been around for the last sixty. As for the symbolism every group that there has ever been (secret or not) has had symbols that represent what they stand for. i believe in this case that certain symbols are thrown out there for disinformation and to throw the hounds off their real tracks.



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by jNormal
Lots of people say the Illuminati are strongly linked with the Freemasons and they are part of the NWO.
However, I saw people post on here that they are just a social group and really helpful?

Can someone help explain where the link originates from?


Josh Norton's post explained the origin and fall of the Illuminati quite well. The link you are asking about came to be because Freemasonry had structure and had members who were of the same thought process as Weishaupt. He tried to get members from masonry to join his cause. Some did indeed and it's unclear who was and was not a member. But history states that the Illuminati disbanded and all indications are that history is correct. I am not saying there is no way the Illuminati could exist today, just that it's highly unlikely.
//the following is my opinion//
Sadly, the majority of people who hear the name "Illuminati" associate that with an evil group. The real group was anything but. They wanted to end tyranny and elevate mankind into a free thought society where nobody would force their beliefs on you. Much like Freemasonry in that it teaches equality and tolerance. We don't tell you what to believe, or who to believe in, only to believe in something.

Unlike some religions, we believe that everyone can be right and everyone has the same chance at an afterlife so long as you try to be a good person and treat others with respect. That is way over-simplified, but generally true I believe.

Here is one of the best historical studies done on the Illuminati. (IMHO)



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by openeyeswideshut
 


So, can you cite the source of those quotes in a way that definitively goes back to Weishaupt? Or are you copying and pasting from a conspiracy theorist who might have made it up?

Edit: I see the quotes come from Robison, who was trying to make a connection between the Bavarian Illuminati and continental (French) Freemasonry, which was (and still is) considered irregular… Robison himself was a Mason in an English lodge, but the distinction between forms of Masonry was lost on authors after Robison, such as Edith Starr Miller...
edit on 2012.1.5 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by pocketsando
close, the 33rd degree masons are often Illuminati, but don't necessarily have to be.

But yea, your on the right track.

Illuminati is also known as The Committee of 300


Can you please explain what the relevance of the Scottish Rite degrees would be to a non-Scottish Rite Mason?



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


George Washington was a 33rd degree mason.



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by pocketsando
 


The Scottish Rite recognizable to the modern Mason (and by extension the 33rd degree) didn't exist until two years after Washington's death.



posted on Jan, 6 2012 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by pocketsando
 

As it has been pointed out, there is a discrepancy in your belief versus chronological/historical fact.

Washington died on December 14, 1799. His Masonic career is well documented by the George Washington Masonic Memorial. Here are some of the more important aspects:

- November 4, 1752 - Initiated as Entered Apprentice at Fredericksburg Lodge No. 4, Fredericksburg, Virginia.
- March 3, 1753 - Passed to the Degree of Fellow Craft at Fredericksburg Lodge No. 4
- August 4, 1753 - Raised a Master Masaon at Fredericksburg Lodge No. 4.
- April 28, 1788 - Named Charter Worshipful Master of Alexandria Lodge No. 22 when a new charter from the Grand Lodge of Virginia was issued. Unanimously re-elected Master December 20, 1788 for one year.
- April 30, 1791 - Inaugurated President of the United States using Bible from St. John's Lodge No. 1, New York.
- During his two terms, he visited Masons in North and South Carolina and presided over the cornerstone ceremony for the U.S. Capitol in 1793
- December 18, 1799 - Buried at Mount Vernon with Masonic rites as well as those of the church, conducted by Alexandria Lodge

Here are some history and facts of the Scottish Rite:



The Invention of Stephen Morin

In August 1761 Stephen Morin received a patent from the Grand Lodge of France “authorizing and empowering him to establish perfect and sublime Masonry in all parts of the world, etc., etc.” Morin was a wine merchant from Bordeaux and set up business in Santo Domingo in what is now the Dominican Republic in the Caribbean. Morin is little remembered for his wine business, but his Masonic activities have gained him lasting fame.

It took Morin about 15 months to make it from France to Santo Domingo, arriving in January 1763, because his ship was captured by the English and he was taken to England. While we know that he arrived with a patent of authority over the High Degrees, we don’t know how many or which High Degrees he controlled! What we do know is that he met a Dutch merchant, Henry Andrew Francken, and made him a Deputy Inspector General sometime between 1763 and 1767. Francken in turn traveled to Albany, New York, and created there a Lodge of Perfection (4°–14°) in 1767.

In addition to creating the Albany Lodge of Perfection, Francken at least four times copied all of his degrees into books: 1771, 1783, and two undated versions. The “Francken Manuscripts” contain the earliest English versions of 21 degrees from 4°, “Secret Master,” to 25°, “The Royal Secret or Knights of St. Andrews—the faithful guardians of the Sacred Treasure,” a 25-degree system with the first three degrees conferred in Blue Lodges. This should establish conclusively that Morin worked a system of 25 degrees, right? Well, only if the degrees that Morin gave to Francken are the same ones that he received in France!

There is growing evidence that Morin took whatever high degrees he had received in France and refashioned them into the Order of the Royal Secret, creating additional degrees as needed. The governing document, the “Constitutions of 1762,” has been discovered by Masonic scholar Alain Bernheim to be a slightly modified version of the constitution of the Grand Lodge of France. Morin apparently acted to create a new Masonic body with himself as the only “Grand Inspector.”

SOURCE

So even if Washington on one of his trips to NY he'd only have gone to the 25°.







edit on 6/1/2012 by Sauron because: - internal quote tags to external quote tags



posted on Jan, 6 2012 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by pocketsando
 

The 33° system didn't come into existence until the first Supreme Council:


Then on May 31, 1801, the first Supreme Council of the Thirty-third Degree, the Mother Council of the World, declared its existence with a motto of “Ordo ab Chao” (Order from Chaos). It announced a new 33-degree system of high degrees that incorporated all 25 of the Order of the Royal Secret, and added eight more, including that of 33°, Sovereign Grand Inspector General.

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Any Inspector of the 25° would be given authority to confer up to the 32° (the extra seven degrees would make his product more attractive), if he turned in his old patent and agreed to follow the rules of the Supreme Council.


Now Louisiana has an interesting Scottish Rite history (but I doubt Washington went to LA to get the "higher degres") as they had their own sovereign Grand Consistory. Here is a history of the LA Scottish Rite:


In April 1793, fourteen Scottish Rite Masons in New Orleans, who had all attained at least the 14?, petitioned the Grand Lodge of South Carolina for a York Rite Lodge charter. Jason Lawrence installed the officers of Perfect Union (Perfaite Union) Lodge No.29 in November 1793, being careful to keep the activity secret from the Spanish government. In 1794, the Grand Orient of France chartered Polar Star (Etoile Polaire) Lodge No. 4263, and in 1801, American Masons, originally from Charleston now living in New Orleans, petitioned the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania for a lodge. Finally in 1802, Charity Lodge No. 93 was chartered, although not formally constituted until May 1804.

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In 1807, a number of Masonic happenings occurred. Polar Star No. 4263 attached La Vertu
Recompensee Lodge No.5001, a Rose Croix chapter; the Grand Lodge of New York, not
wanting to be outdone by the Grand Orient or the Grand Lodges of South Carolina and
Pennsylvania, chartered the first English-speaking lodge - Louisiana Lodge No.1 – with Edward
Livingston as Master -; and, refugees from Santo Domingo reorganized one of their lodges,
Reunion Desiree Lodge No.3829, and were reissued a charter from the Grand Orient. In 1810,
Freemasons who were refugees from Cuba, originally from Santo Domingo, received charters
from the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania for Concord Lodge No.117, and Perseverance Lodge
No.118. A group of Americans received the second English language charter from Pennsylvania
in 1810 as Harmony Lodge No.122.

Over the next fifty-year period, Scottish Rite Masonry in Louisiana experienced many changes in
allegiance and affiliation. Much of this was due to individuals who promoted their causes or
themselves. Some of it was due to irregularity in the Grand Lodge of South Carolina which
influenced the Scottish Rite headquarters – a true gumbo. Freemasonry had come to Louisiana
from many places, and each place claimed the true and pure practice of the Craft.

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In December 1810, the Rose Croix Chapter was chartered, and in March 1811, the Grand Consistory was chartered. The members were ordered to report all activity to Charleston South Carolina, and Kingston, Jamaica, the joint headquarters of Scottish Rite.

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The vast majority of Masonry was located in New Orleans, and all but two lodges used French as
the ritual language and Scottish and York Rite forms equally.

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In 1831, John Holland, the Grand Master and a 33? Scottish Rite Mason, influenced the Grand
Council to rejoin the Charleston Scottish Rite, and resume the title Grand Consistory.

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In 1834, a new Scottish Rite Supreme Council appeared in the United States – the United
Supreme Council for the Western Hemisphere. The New Orleans bodies changed allegiance to
this Supreme Council and Auguste Douce was named the Grand Commander in Louisiana.

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In 1839, the United Supreme Council disbanded, and the Marquis de Santangelo organized the
Supreme Council of the United States of America, claiming jurisdiction over the entire United
States, and naming himself as Sovereign Grand Commander. His headquarters was the Grand
Consistory in New Orleans.

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The Supreme Council, headquartered in New Orleans, and facing loss of support from the Grand
Lodge, quickly revived its correspondence with the Charleston Scottish Rite. In 1852, Albert
Mackay, the Sovereign Grand Commander in Charleston, appeared in New Orleans and
constituted John Gedge and fifteen others as Princes of the Royal Secret, and named Gedge as
Commander and his Representative.

SOURCE

To be continued.
edit on 6-1-2012 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)









edit on 6/1/2012 by Sauron because: internal quote tags to external quote tags



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