Helping members understand the physics of Space.

i like explaining space stuff, but pretty much everything i had to contribute has already been dealt with

i do have a question tho, not sure how related is...

in scifi movies and television shows, spaceships always meet each other 'up the same way' (their X and Y axis always match). is there anyway that this is possible in space?? i was thinking gyroscopes, but that only works if they were all launched from the same place.

Not sure what you mean Dave, but all spacecrafts have little nozzles around the ship usually referred to as Orbital Maneuvering Systems, or maneuvering thrusters, or reactive control thrusters. The Space Shuttle actually orbited upside down, top facing earth, and usually docked perpendicular to earth.

Shuttle fore maneuvering thrusters.



Aft OMS pod.



The mid sized nozzles on the back maneuvered the Shuttle for reentry, the only time it flew 'normal' in orbit.



X-37 maneuvering thrusters.



Apollo attitude control thrusters.



At launch some rockets have attidude control thrusters like this old Mercury Atlas.



Here's a NASA site on various maneuvering control rockets. They do have gyroscopic control and also main engine configuration will also guide a rocket to the proper escape attitude. Making a rocket stable requires some form of control system. Controls can be either active or passive. Passive could be like a stick on a bottle rocket, active will gimbal the main nozzle (tilt), yes, they move. Also early rockets had small fins to help guide them until they generated enough thrust to stabilize, (passive control), this generated drag and limited the range. Lots of methods were tried.

This link has a Flash illustration of the Space Shuttle deorbit burn.

reply to post by jeenyus2008

That really helps. Thank you.

You are quite welcome, I'm glad that I could be of assistance.

Are you a teacher? The way you explained those concepts really helps me understand it in a easier way.

Well, only so much as I teach people things sometimes.... I don't get paid for it, if that's what you mean.

I love explaining science too. So for my contribution I will explain how the Flux Capacitor works.

The Flux Capacitor acts in the exact same way an electrical capacitor works, except it stores magnetic flux as opposed to Electric flux (current). At a speed of 88 mph the magnetic field created by the Flux Capacitor's motion through the magnetic and gravity field of the Earth starts to induce a magnetic charge created by the Earth's own electromagnetic field, much the way an electrical transformer works. It is one of the principal components of a time machine.

reply to post by JayDub113


Thanks for attributing that . So you believe time travel is very plausible? I was thinking about that. If time travel was ever to be possible, we would have already seen tons of people from the future throughout our past.

Originally posted by jeenyus2008
reply to post by JayDub113

 

Thanks for attributing that

. So you believe time travel is very plausible? I was thinking about that. If time travel was ever to be possible, we would have already seen tons of people from the future throughout our past.

the opposite of our space/time is time/space. with 3 dimensions of time and 1 dimension of space. this is also known as the spirit world. For mathematical and physical explanation of this, refer to the work of physicist Dewey. B Larson...or you can check out the "Ra Material".

reply to post by Illustronic


Thanks for providing pictures with your post Illustronic. That is very fascinating. The nozzles probably don't need to push too hard out in space achieve proper maneuvers to re enter. What kind of fuel do the thrusters use? Nitrogen maybe??

reply to post by Illustronic


i meant fictional space craft. for example, in star trek when 2 ships meet they are always up the same way. how? is this even possible in space?

reply to post by DaveNorris


I'm sure at some point everything is possible. As for the science behind it, your guess is as good as mine.

reply to post by davidgrouchy


hi dave
very interesting information,
star

interesting as you point out the 1:1 ratio in some cases.

xploder

reply to post by jeenyus2008


If you are finding the joy of learning, and if you have never watched them before, may I point you in the general direction of two outstanding documentary series?

Firstly, the legendary and ground-breaking "Cosmos: A Personal Journey" by Carl Sagan, which should be required viewing for everyone. Although much more has been learned in the thirty years since it first aired, it is an experience that is not to be missed. A fascinating, personal and endearing insight into the cosmos and our journey within it.

topdocumentaryfilms.com...

Secondly, James Burke's "Connections" which, whilst not cosmological in nature, gives a fascinating insight into the connections and coincidences that have driven human society to understand and develop itself and understand the world around it. Plus, of course, James Burke just seriously ROCKS.

topdocumentaryfilms.com...

Enjoy!

Originally posted by DaveNorris
reply to post by Illustronic

 

i meant fictional space craft. for example, in star trek when 2 ships meet they are always up the same way. how? is this even possible in space?

space isn't as "direction-less" as some people might assume...

you know when you see a picture of the milky way, you see a giant cloud of "dust" that is in the shape of a flat disk. the dust and solar systems in the galactic disk all spread out in pretty much a 2 dimensional "flat" disk. the flat disk shape of the galaxy is called the galactic plane.

a "plane" being a 2 dimensional surface...

the whole galaxy has a north, south, east and west, and an up and down...all the two ships would have to do is align themselves to be parallel with the galactic plane.

reply to post by metalshredmetal


Our solar system is tilted at a near 80º(?) tilt to the galactic plane. Our 'UP' is nearly facing the center of the galaxy. Our solar system plane is nearly east/west the rotation of the galaxy. Our ecliptic is the plane our earth revolves around the sun, nearly around the sun's equator. Our orbit doesn't have much tilt like the other planets do, that's why we call it our ecliptic, everything else in our solar system is measured from our orbital plane around the sun.

reply to post by dogsounds


Yes, Cosmos, got the book over 30 years ago. I'm afraid it can't be referenced today for very much. I love the guy though!

reply to post by Illustronic


yes, you're right and i know that but us measuring from our star is pretty anthropocentric of us to do...

i was just saying that "star trek style" spaceships, which can travel from one star to another, or one galaxy to another, they would most likely favor the plane of the entire galaxy, not the plane of some single star in the outer arms somewhere, among billions of others.

who knows, maybe our galaxy's plane is just part of an even bigger organization of galaxies, a super galaxy of some sort, with it's own plane, to which ours is perpendicular.

it's important to note the fact that our solar system's plane is almost perpendicular to the galaxy's plane. this is analogous to a 90 degree phase shift. also interesting to research a little about the physics behind parallel universes...

reply to post by metalshredmetal


There is no up or down, east or west in space.

A spaceship controls it's attitude with reactive control mechanisms, be it sci-fi, be it gravity assist, anti gravitational or even anti matter hypothetical controls or dilithium crystals (do you know what dilithium is?. Neither do I. Everything requires a control mechanism. We send probes out, they're spinning around, you know why? So one side doesn't get too hot from solar radiation.

reply to post by Illustronic


all of the above mentioned gravity mechanisms would be interacting with what causes that gravity: the black hole at the galactic center. and since this black hole forms the entire galaxy including it's "plane" shape, i think your answer does not disagree with my answer.

and as for "galactic norths and ups and downs", i've recently found this, thanks to phage

reply to post by metalshredmetal

Yes, I understood our solar system bobs above and below the galactic plane while orbiting the galactic center, so the illustration Phage provided suggests our solar system also moves closer and further from the galactic center as well? The corkscrew illustrated to me suggests that. If so, this could provide important launch window information if mankind ever achieves interstellar travel.

reply to post by Illustronic


quote from my post in another thread:

The Sun and planets move
in a quasi-elliptical orbit between about 8.4 and 9.7 kpc from the galactic center, with a period
of revolution of about 240 million years. The solar system Is currently close to and moving
inward toward "perigalacticon," the point in the orbit closest to the galactic center

now some definitions for easier learning:

Perigalacticon is an apsis. It is the point in a star's orbit around a galaxy when it lies closest to the galactic center. The Sun is presently near its perigalacticon.

An apsis is the point of greatest or least distance of a body from one of the foci of its elliptical orbit. In modern celestial mechanics this focus is also the center of attraction, which is usually the center of mass of the system.

yep, we're approaching our closest point to the galactic center...

i have yet to find an accurate description of when exactly this will be...wonder if it has anything to do with "2012" timetables/cycles

it's pretty hard to imagine the physics of our solar system and galaxy...with all those "moving parts"...i wonder if this perigalacticon is what has been misconstrued into the myth of our "galactic plane alignment"..

i still think our earth being closest to the galactic center has some pretty important METAphysical implications...

approaching the center of our galaxy is analogous to earth approaching the "spiritual mass" of the galaxy...IMO mass has spirit and the galactic center must have spirit. the Mayan's called it Hunab Ku, a quite personal personality.

8 minutes for light from the sun to reach earth. nebulas and such have the pretty colors because its many types of pictures combined so we can see it.