Am I Enlightened? Are You Enlightened?

Whether we are material or consciousness or both, we know the universe reflects back to us the truths within ourselves. We are made of it, thus will reflect it, or we make it, and thus it reflects us.

Meditating upon a rock I ask the rock, "Are you moving?"

The rock makes no motion.

Meditating further upon the rock I ask the rock, "Am I moving?"

The rock makes no motion.

Meditating further upon the rock I ask to speak to another rock.

The rock leaves me and another appears beneath me.

We are enlightened when something lightens us. Nothing more. It is the sensation of lightening... not the reaching a point.

Thank you for being here too.

That's a good question. I've always tried meditating but still can't find the patience for it because im very busy in my mind when i close my eyes, makes me nuts at night when i wanna sleep.

But do you think you are enlightened?

reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion


One man's enlightenment may be another man's folly.

Each of us may have a different idea of what enlightenment is.

Please define what you mean by 'enlightened'...and 'lightens'

And did the rock move when it left?

There are levels of enlightenment IMO. I'm more enlightened than a hate filled racist but less than a yogi. It's not an "you are or aren't" thing.

reply to post by Annunak1


In order to lighten, you know what it feels like to be darkened.

When will a rock be moved? When moved by a mover, but there is no mover without the moved.

One point's positive is another point's negative. My up is China's down from a view that asks the question expecting an actual answer.

reply to post by midicon


When is a man sickened? When experiencing the sensation of sickness.

When is a woman enlivened? When experiencing the sensation of liveliness.

There is no additional definition or clarity needed to know when a person is "enlightened".

They and only they know it, even if they don't know they know it yet.

The blockage is the idea of being enlightened without being darkened, though it is only a "blockage" when viewed from a certain differently enlightened vantage point.

The question of whether the rock moved... who is asking the question?

reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion


There is no rock.

If you or I were able to answer that then I'd say "no" in each respective case.

reply to post by The1Prettiest1One


Was a question really being asked?

Originally posted by ErgoTheConfusion
reply to post by The1Prettiest1One

 

Was a question really being asked?

edit on 2012/1/5 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)

Perhaps, if somehow One became aware that something "I" seemed to think so.

Earthquake! And the rock hops joyfully...


That which is illuminated by some other source does in fact glow itself but in its own preferred bands.

reply to post by The1Prettiest1One


I do enjoy the dance of words.

Thank you for yours!

You become enlightened when you break free from anxiety and depression, so I guess that makes me enlightened. Just learn to relax and stay that way.

Originally posted by ErgoTheConfusion
Whether we are material or consciousness or both, we know the universe reflects back to us the truths within ourselves.

Sorry, I don't understand your point. Do you mean: "Whether we (consider ourselves to be) solely a material entity or an entity composed of consciousness or an entity that is at once both..."??

There seemed to be some ambiguity in your opening statement - i.e. that it could be interpreted that you yourself are not certain whether a human being is composed of matter or the stuff of consciousness or that you know the truth of the matter and others may not though.

Leaving consciousness out of the equation, is the objective world composed of matter or energy? The answer to this is elementary. How the world appears to our senses and what it actually is are two different things. Appearances can be deceiving. When energy itself is considered a gross interpretation of reality the same way matter is considered a gross interpretation of energy, then what is that third layer?

I have an intuition that the deeper one penetrates into matter itself there comes a point where the observer and what is observed is one and the same - consciousness meets consciousness.

Originally posted by ErgoTheConfusion
We are enlightened when something lightens us. Nothing more. It is the sensation of lightening... not the reaching a point.

This reminds me of the crowd in the cinema whose eyes are filled with the reflected light from the projector behind them. They become enlightened by an external source of light. Then they become excited and animated and feel a kind of brotherhood - those who bask in the same light of the stars of Hollywood. When one laughs, other laugh too in allegiance with the plot.

But should there be a power failure and the theatre is plunged into darkness, where is the light which bound them together? Now there is isolation, and following that boredom and restlessness. Now even a flashlight will appease the hunger for entertainment and a sense of reality.

Where is the light in a sensory deprivation (or float) tank? When there is no external light source the mind becomes unconscious and searches for light stored in dream imagery.

I see enlightenment as being illumination from a non-external light source, me.

reply to post by Golden Rule

Whether you lighten yourself, or "let something else" do it for you, it's still an experience of "being lightened".

You make the definition that to be in a state where the self isn't self illuminated is a non-enlightened state. However when on the mountaintop the trip to the bottom of the valley may be the desired peak of experience.

Defining one as "is" versus "isn't" is like saying that to be in pain is different whether you hit yourself or someone else hits you. Granted the interpretation may be different, but genuinely experiencing pain is possible from either source. It is also able to be ignored from both. One is self generated, the other is self generated by proxy (but only in the same sense that a finger is a proxy of the hand which is a proxy for the head that it just hit).

To define one as more enlightened than the other is still grasping.

As for matter/energy (material/consciousness): I can't be sure of either. The answer is as important in the end as whether green is perfect because of the blue or the yellow.

reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion

Originally posted by ErgoTheConfusion
reply to post by Golden Rule

 

Whether you lighten yourself, or "let something else" do it for you, it's still an experience of "being lightened".

You make the definition that to be in a state where the self isn't self illuminated is a non-enlightened state.

Thank you ErgoTheConfusion, in reply

I wrote:

Originally posted by Golden Rule

I see enlightenment as being illumination from a non-external light source

I didn't mean to say that the self is enlightened only when it is self illuminated, but that the illumination would not be from an external light source.

And, that the self isn't illuminated by its own effort or power as there would still be duality - the self and the light it, itself, has created. No, rather that the self must be composed of light itself.

Can someone please explain how "one" can become enlightened? Thanks.


-Roatation

Originally posted by Golden Rule
And, that the self isn't illuminated by its own effort or power as there would still be duality - the self and the light it, itself, has created. No, rather that the self must be composed of light itself.

Wonderful! I see clearly what you were communicating now.

Originally posted by Rotation
Can someone please explain how "one" can become enlightened? Thanks.

Only by pretending to forget it is always enlightened already.

Which school of thoughts you are referring to? You can argue that all enlightenment is the same and the one. To use Zen teaching, you can't be enlightened unless you are already enlightened, that you ARE the enlightenment. This thinking would require looking at ourselves for enlightenment rather than seeking it from the outside. BTW, this is the truth. That's how I think I have become enlightened...because I was the enlightenment in my past life...

Originally posted by ChiForce
Which school of thoughts you are referring to?

That's exactly the point.

Namaste!