PayPal ordered Canadian to smash antique violin, woman alleges

PayPal ordered Canadian to smash antique violin, woman alleges

www.torontosun.com

"I sold an old French violin to a buyer in Canada, and the buyer disputed the label. This is not uncommon. In the violin market, labels often mean little and there is often disagreement over them. Some of the most expensive violins in the world have disputed labels, but they are works of art nonetheless," she wrote.

"Rather than have the violin returned to me, PayPal made the buyer DESTROY the violin in order to get his money back."

(visit the link for the full news article)

It seems that a buyer complained and PAYPAL has a "little-known" policy that they can withold payment to the vendor, if the buyer complains. Even worse, there doesn't appear to be a mechanism to allow vendors to reclaim the item and provide a refund. The comments after the story had some additional info. that are worth reading.

This story suggests that "SELLOR-BEWARE".

It seems that using PAYPAL for a payment mechanism could result in a sellor losing their asset if the buyer convinces PAYPAL the item isn't exactly what was advertised, or something like that.

Is anyone familiar with this issue?

www.torontosun.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by surfin4it

Paypal is one of the worst, but easiest ways to pay. It has barely any rights for the seller of items. Just for the buyers. I wouldn't be surprised if this was true.

I doubt this is true. PayPal is basically an escrow, and from my experience is really good at it. It is not a "little-known" fact that PayPal holds the funds until everything is made right, that is the main feature of PayPal.

If the buyer doesn't like the product, the buyer can ask for the money back, however the buyer will not get their money back until they return the item to the seller. If the seller doesn't get their item back, they can keep the buyers money.

reply to post by surfin4it


Lol that's madness! What stops the buyer from claiming it's not what they ordered and then just csaying that they destroyed it? How do you prove that they destroyed it? Pictures etc? I don't see that happening!

DON'T USE PAYPAL , YOU DO KNOW YOU CAN USE BANK TO BANK TRANSFERS ...!

Wow. PayPal legally can't make you do anything with your own money. They don't even handle the transaction and interaction between users. That is up to the medium, like eBay. Even then, the only thing they can really do is suggest you do something. I bought a fake CD from a favorite band. It was a bootleg and obviously had the wrong artwork and everything. It was a really bad reproduction of the real CD. I contacted eBay and the seller. The seller refunded me my money and I got to keep the CD, but all eBay did was essentially say to the guy "refund of we will downgroup your ratings or suspend your account." PayPal could do nothing.

This story is bull#.

But, anyone could tell that from the source. Especially considering if anyone is actually serious about antique violins, which can cost thousands, then they would have some sort of insurance regarding fraud. Even then, PayPal would still have nothing to do with it.

And I still think PayPal sucks. Not registering transactions my ass...

reply to post by cerebralassassins


There is a problem with bank to bank transfers though. You have to trust the person you are transferring to or you might not ever see your money again.

Like I said PayPal acts as an escrow service. They hold the money until you get what you payed for. If you don't get what you pay for, then you get your money back. If you are a seller, you can easily refund the money when the item is returned, if the item isn't returned you should be able to keep your money.

The controversy of this topic is the "little-known" fact that they tell people to destroy counterfeit items. I didn't know that, and not sure it is true.

Besides, it is not like the buyer had to comply anyway. Dumb move on their part.

Also, every company in the world will not give you their money back for something or repair something that you damaged yourself, let alone destroy and have proof of.

I once sold some vintage Star Wars sheets to an international buyer on Ebay for like $40. Paypal was used. I mailed them 1st class and kept my receipt. Months later, the buyer claimed he never got them and Paypal took the money + shipping costs out of my account even though I had the receipt which showed I mailed it. They said since I didn't use priority mail- which is much more expensive- and has a tracking number, I was SOL. I was out my product and my money. Needless to say, I now always use priority , or add insurance on international shipments.

Originally posted by K1771gnorance
I doubt this is true. PayPal is basically an escrow, and from my experience is really good at it. It is not a "little-known" fact that PayPal holds the funds until everything is made right, that is the main feature of PayPal.

If the buyer doesn't like the product, the buyer can ask for the money back, however the buyer will not get their money back until they return the item to the seller. If the seller doesn't get their item back, they can keep the buyers money.

You must have never used PayPal before since what you wrote is not true.

I made a complaint one time about the shipping of an item and PayPal had refunded my money before the seller had any clue.

He was almost begging me to square it with him personally since he knew it would be arduous to settle with PayPal.

Originally posted by toolstarr
I once sold some vintage Star Wars sheets to an international buyer on Ebay for like $40. Paypal was used. I mailed them 1st class and kept my receipt. Months later, the buyer claimed he never got them and Paypal took the money + shipping costs out of my account even though I had the receipt which showed I mailed it. They said since I didn't use priority mail- which is much more expensive- and has a tracking number, I was SOL. I was out my product and my money. Needless to say, I now always use priority , or add insurance on international shipments.

# also gets lost in the mail.

reply to post by cerebralassassins


Problem is people have got it in their heads that giving you any details, even the few details for a bank transfer is a bad idea over the net. That's why people get sucked into using paypal so they don't have to give a random person their details incase they have somehow got hold of other details.

Originally posted by TheOven
You must have never used PayPal before since what you wrote is not true.

Actually, I have owned an online retail business for 10 years now, and PayPal is the main payment processor. I know exactly how PayPal works.

Originally posted by TheOven
I made a complaint one time about the shipping of an item and PayPal had refunded my money before the seller had any clue.

He was almost begging me to square it with him personally since he knew it would be arduous to settle with PayPal.

If you make a complaint PayPal will refund your money instantly because they know they can always "fix it" if it wasn't right. The seller could have made a complaint to PayPal and the money would have been returned back to him if said item wasn't returned. So I think it is you that doesn't know how PayPal works.

Originally posted by surfin4it

PayPal ordered Canadian to smash antique violin, woman alleges

The paypal policy is really designed to cover fake items, such as a fake Rolex watch or a fake Gucci handbag.

If you buy a Rolex watch, and when you recieve it you find it is a cheap chinese fake, then the paypal policy is that you must destroy the fake item if they will refund your money.

Clearly this policy went a bit too far, and they decided that if the violoin was a "fake", then it too must be destroyed.

"We carefully review each case, and in general we may ask a buyer to destroy counterfeit goods if they supply signed evidence from a knowledgeable third party that the goods are indeed counterfeit," PayPal said in an e-mailed statement. "The reason why we reserve the option to ask the buyer to destroy the goods is that in many countries, including the US, it is a criminal offense to mail counterfeit goods back to a seller."

Not knowing the details, perhaps Paypal was actually right in this case. If hypothetically 100 years ago somebody made a fake copy of a name brand violin, does that still count today as a fake that should be destroyed?

Originally posted by SubPop79

Originally posted by toolstarr
I once sold some vintage Star Wars sheets to an international buyer on Ebay for like $40. Paypal was used. I mailed them 1st class and kept my receipt. Months later, the buyer claimed he never got them and Paypal took the money + shipping costs out of my account even though I had the receipt which showed I mailed it. They said since I didn't use priority mail- which is much more expensive- and has a tracking number, I was SOL. I was out my product and my money. Needless to say, I now always use priority , or add insurance on international shipments.

# also gets lost in the mail.

Yeah,not as often as you'd think.I've had it happen to me.And i had PROOF they got the delivery,not just a reciept that I sent it.Paypal is a joke and I don't know why anyone still uses it.I use to sell things on ebay and of course you got the usual bs from buyers..didn't get it blah blah blah.I've had people claim they didn't get it when i've sent it through UPS or FED EX.When the buyer would open a dispute,they would freeze your entire account until it was settled.Yes bank account.You had to have one to open a pay pal account.Not sure if that's how it is now.But that's how it use to be.But as for the op..i don't buy it.Even if what she said is true...it's not paypal's fault that some idiot destroyed the violin.

Originally posted by alfa1
If hypothetically 100 years ago somebody made a fake copy of a name brand violin, does that still count today as a fake that should be destroyed?

If it was sold as an original... I would say yes. When selling items like that spend the few bucks to have a professional appraisal certificate issued

Originally posted by K1771gnorance
reply to post by cerebralassassins

 

There is a problem with bank to bank transfers though. You have to trust the person you are transferring to or you might not ever see your money again.

Like I said PayPal acts as an escrow service. They hold the money until you get what you payed for. If you don't get what you pay for, then you get your money back. If you are a seller, you can easily refund the money when the item is returned, if the item isn't returned you should be able to keep your money.

The controversy of this topic is the "little-known" fact that they tell people to destroy counterfeit items. I didn't know that, and not sure it is true.

I deal with hundreds of people on a daily basis through various sites, most are outlets for news that end up getting linked into ats and other related sites across the net, well enough of that, but when and believe me it does come up the issue of payment, i always promote the pre-paid visa card and i continue to inform people that no matter if you loose the card and or someone try's to purchase goods online it will be blocked. As you alone have the ability to place what amount you choose on that card. It is not connected to any bank account it is totally isolated from all and any physical bank accounts throughout the world. It truly is one of the only safest systems i have come across and have been using for many years.

As for paypal forcing someone to break a purchased item, well i guess that individual should have had a lawyer handy and claimed mental stress as i do believe the messages to and from paypal were not or lets say way beyond paypal's legal rights.

Here is a link to the original source of this story
www.regretsy.com...

According to this blog:

UPDATE: I neglected to mention in the original post that the violin was examined and authenticated by a top luthier prior to its sale.

I believe this story. It seems to be the typical mindless application of regulations which were originally created to protect copyrights.

Shame not only on Pay Pal, but also on the would-be-buyer. He destroyed an instrument, just because he wasn't happy with his delivery.

Originally posted by clintdelicious
reply to post by cerebralassassins

 

Problem is people have got it in their heads that giving you any details, even the few details for a bank transfer is a bad idea over the net. That's why people get sucked into using paypal so they don't have to give a random person their details incase they have somehow got hold of other details.

I deal with hundreds of people on a daily basis through various sites, most are outlets for news that end up getting linked into ats and other related sites across the net, well enough of that, but when and believe me it does come up the issue of payment, i always promote the pre-paid visa card and i continue to inform people that no matter if you loose the card and or someone try's to purchase goods online it will be blocked. As you alone have the ability to place what amount you choose on that card. It is not connected to any bank account it is totally isolated from all and any physical bank accounts throughout the world. It truly is one of the only safest systems i have come across and have been using for many years. People only need to be shown a safer method of purchasing items online and sadly many people simply do not ask a simple question as " what choices does one have in purchasing online goods within the " X " country i live in. !