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Armed eighth-grader shot and killed by police

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posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 12:06 AM
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when I was in eighth grade, I left class to go to the bathroom. I took the long way like I always did, just as i'm about to get to the bathroom, the police come charging up the staircase steps with their guns drawn, scream at me to get away. lol.
they tell me someone has a gun in the school. so I can imagine.




posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by JIMC5499

So if you were not there and don't know the facts, how do you know that the poilce are withholding anything and are building a story?


Lets just say that I know the techniques used. As soon as I read their proclamation that they were "engaged by the suspect" as if it was some type of military battle to convince the public of their justification.

As it turns out they purposely didn't reveal that the suspects weapon wasn't lethal. That fact was delayed in order to turn the public against the suspect by imagining their own children at school in such a situation (as it turns out did not exist). Once everyone hated the dead child suspect - then they release the truth - thereby retaining more public support for their actions.



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 05:56 AM
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reply to post by MrWendal

Well this settles the whole issue for me. If the boy raised and pellet gun and was shot dead, the Police in this case are 100% justified.

 


Actually no. Law enforcement is trained (should be trained) to know the psych profiles of the people they are dealing with.

Look through school shooting histories and you will find distraught kids who covertly entered schools and fired on the people inside. By the time police arrived in most cases it was too late.

This kid, was already in an altercation earlier in the day. According to the second article.

Right there, that does not fit the profile of school shooters. As they have tended to be passive aggressive personalities that previously had minimal confrontation.

Now, if you take the other cases of shootings where a weapon was used after a physical altercation, the weapons are often dumped in the trash, or a participating 'friends' bag or locker.

The aggressors tend to be more confrontational but that is not to say they are willing to confront law enforcement in the way it was presumed in this case.

The teachers that deal with these kids should know there personalities, and this should be relayed to the police if they are called into action. I don't believe this incident had to end in a dead student. No matter who was doing the shooting.
edit on 5-1-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by WeRpeons
If he shot and killed an innocent student or teacher would we have any sympathy? Any person whether they're a juvinile or adult who brandishes a weapon are taking a risk that their decision could backfire and result in their own death.

To think that a 15 year-old or even a 10 year-old doesn't know the consequences or the result of firing a gun is rediculous. There's absolutely no excuse for this child's behavior.


So he shot and killed a student or teacher then?

You also insinuate that he fired the pellet gun... but I missed that in the article...



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 06:14 AM
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Reply to post by boncho
 


You're giving too much credit to a broken system of broken men operating under broken rules.

They're just apes with clubs.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 06:16 AM
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reply to post by boncho
 


If it was my kid in that school, I dont give a damn what the profile says.

Profiles are not a 100% science. Once upon a time it was believed that women could never be Serial Killers. So when the FBI or whomever would do a profile on a Serial Killer, it was always a man. Now we know that Women can be Serial Killers. So obviously at some point, the original profile was wrong.

If it's my kid in that school, you can take your profile and shove it in your ear. Get my child home safe.



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 06:34 AM
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is this a real story ?? or more anti gun propagandist bull# ?



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 06:36 AM
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Originally posted by MrWendal
reply to post by boncho
 


If it was my kid in that school, I dont give a damn what the profile says.

Profiles are not a 100% science. Once upon a time it was believed that women could never be Serial Killers. So when the FBI or whomever would do a profile on a Serial Killer, it was always a man. Now we know that Women can be Serial Killers. So obviously at some point, the original profile was wrong.

If it's my kid in that school, you can take your profile and shove it in your ear. Get my child home safe.


And what if the scenario is that your child was being picked on but had too much pride to tell you, and he thought by taking his friends pellet gun to scare the aggressor would resolve the issue?

Another poster said it right, police should fire after being fired upon. Especially with minors. It is after all the reason people want to hail them as heroes, not the opposite.

If you don't have some sense of self sacrifice, do not bother applying for public duty.



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 06:46 AM
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Many will know that I'm usually the first to berate the police for heavy handed action, but I can't really see any wrong doing here. Could they have shot to dissarm? Possibly, but I'm not in a position to judge wether they were able to do that or not. If you have a loaded firearm, drawn and ready to use, and the cops are there, it's best to lay down on the ground and take what's coming, unless you want suicide by cop. The kid was stupid, and paid with his life. Life's a bitch, and he learnt the hard way. Maybe others will learn from his mistake, so the waste of life wasn't completly pointless. But I'll not slate the cops in this one.



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by caladonea
Why didn't the police shoot him in the leg or shoulder?


Because the person may be still capable of returning fire. It's too risky.

As for using a taser, it depends how close you are to the gunman, I guess.

When a cop draws his gun and tells you to drop yours, it's a good idea to do it. Doesn't matter if it's real or not either.



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 07:30 AM
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So.. can the cops not distinguish a pellet gun from a real one?

I kinda doubt a 15 year old really had any delusions of doing damage with a pellet gun so I have to think he wasn't out to hurt anyone.

Anyone figured out the real story yet?



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 07:31 AM
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Back in the 1980's Daisy came out with look alike air pistols. You could buy them in various models that looked exactly like the real gun. They shot a small yellow plastic ball and even had fake cartridges that would eject out the side just like the real gun. I owned a Baretta 9mm at the time and bought the Daisy pistol that was the same model. If you put them side by side there was no difference in appearance until you saw the "Daisy" trademark on the side. Daisy was forced to stop making these air pistols after a few kids were shot because they were aiming them at people who had real guns. Judging from the pictures that I have seen of the "pellet gun" that was involved, I would have probably shot the kid myself if he aimed it at me.



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 07:43 AM
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reply to post by JIMC5499
 


I remember those.

There was this line of water guns too that were modeled after real firearms. They were battery operated to squirt like a machine gun. First they all looked alike. Then they were painted with ridiculous colors like black and yellow tiger-stripe. And finally they were discontinued.

A whole lot of hoopla over nothing. The "kids being shot" was statistically insignificant and kids are still shot today for having phones in their hands.

What did them in was public fear fed by the media. Same thing that did in Jarts, created ceramic gun fears, and turned teflon coated ammo into a mythological creature with godlike powers.

Take a walk down any isle of pellet guns, airsoft guns and water guns today and you still see the exact replica guns. As if the great ignorance and fear flare up of the 80's never happened.

Here's those water guns: Entertech

Law enforcement hates everything and they are great at selling fear to the idiot mass and the media for ratings will pump that fear to death.

Anytime law enforcement comes out and says something in unison, whether supporting a bill or decrying a product, you can bet your ass their claims are full of # and are just out to increase their control.
edit on 5-1-2012 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 07:45 AM
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reply to post by CALGARIAN
 

If he attempted to taser the young man then the officer might have been shot (pellets can hurt you know and you might put out an eye)...the kid was an easy target for a trained officer (but over 100 of "trained officers" were afraid of that trained war veteran who killed a park ranger and would not even approach his car for about a day).



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by MrWendal
reply to post by boncho
 


If it was my kid in that school, I dont give a damn what the profile says.

Profiles are not a 100% science. Once upon a time it was believed that women could never be Serial Killers. So when the FBI or whomever would do a profile on a Serial Killer, it was always a man. Now we know that Women can be Serial Killers. So obviously at some point, the original profile was wrong.

If it's my kid in that school, you can take your profile and shove it in your ear. Get my child home safe.


Well put and Amen to common sense! I couldn't agree more about the here and now vs. the profile and theory.

If a child is in MY son's school with what everyone can see and believe is a live firearm, I want something done. If he's already shown a willingness to be violent that day (this one did) then I want something done with a real edge to it. Now, if that same kid with a proven record for violent action actually raises that weapon at a cop or anyone else...I want him shot.

Please don't risk my son's life or the lives of any other children by giving even the SLIGHT chance of an actual 2-way gun battle down a school hallway. IF a weapon is raised like this child did.....it's tragic...but putting him down is the only answer. Assuming he doesn't mean it...or assuming it can't be a real gun gets innocent people killed.



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by boncho

Originally posted by MrWendal
reply to post by boncho
 


If it was my kid in that school, I dont give a damn what the profile says.

Profiles are not a 100% science. Once upon a time it was believed that women could never be Serial Killers. So when the FBI or whomever would do a profile on a Serial Killer, it was always a man. Now we know that Women can be Serial Killers. So obviously at some point, the original profile was wrong.

If it's my kid in that school, you can take your profile and shove it in your ear. Get my child home safe.


And what if the scenario is that your child was being picked on but had too much pride to tell you, and he thought by taking his friends pellet gun to scare the aggressor would resolve the issue?

Another poster said it right, police should fire after being fired upon. Especially with minors. It is after all the reason people want to hail them as heroes, not the opposite.

If you don't have some sense of self sacrifice, do not bother applying for public duty.


Nonsense. Your going to suggest to me that in a world in which children are FULLY aware of the possibility of school shootings and the repercussions of bringing a weapon of any kind to school, in a country where kids now have school shooting drills as often as I did fire drills in my day, in a country where students have been arrested for the crime of cutting a steak at lunch with a steak knife brought from home, in a country that proudly proclaims their "Zero Tolerance" Policies in schools on this very issue.. that MY child would choose to take a weapon to school rather than tell me she was being bullied?

That is a very bold judgement to cast on a person you know nothing about than some opinions on a computer screen. My 16 year old would actually laugh at this argument. She already knows she can, and believe me has, told me "anything".

Police should only fire when being fired upon? I am not a fan of police. I have been on this very site for years and I have very openly criticized police tactics, policies, and poor attitudes. I have very openly suggested that Citizens should show no fear and if they must, physically resist Police who are performing outside of the Rule of Law. The idea that Police should sacrifice themselves foolishly in such a situation as this is just blind hatred, or sheer stupidity.

Police are people to. They also have families, children, parents, loved ones. Are you really going to suggest that Police should take a bullet and risk their lives for the life of an armed suspect who is breaking the law and pointing a weapon in their direction? They should risk the lives of other children in the school or the teachers and other staff? Just to wait and see if he shoots first?

No!! It is a right to self defense. The Law is very clear on this issue. To put our heads in the sand and pretend that 15 year old kids do not kill people is an exercise in ignorance.

If I pointed a gun at you or a member of your family, would you take a wait and see attitude or would you eliminate the threat and protect your family and yourself? I can assure you, if I wanted you dead and I held a gun on you, and you wait even 10 seconds.... you waited 9.8 seconds too long.
edit on 5-1-2012 by MrWendal because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 08:59 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal


That is a very bold judgement to cast on a person you know nothing about than some opinions on a computer screen. My 16 year old would actually laugh at this argument. She already knows she can, and believe me has, told me "anything".

 



Oh wow, big surprise. You have no problem casting judgement on someone else's 15 year old but yeah, I'm sure your daughter will never do anything wrong in her life.




posted on Jan, 6 2012 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by MrWendal


That is a very bold judgement to cast on a person you know nothing about than some opinions on a computer screen. My 16 year old would actually laugh at this argument. She already knows she can, and believe me has, told me "anything".

 



Oh wow, big surprise. You have no problem casting judgement on someone else's 15 year old but yeah, I'm sure your daughter will never do anything wrong in her life.





I never said she has not done anything wrong in her life. I said she wouldnt be dumb enough to take a weapon into school. I said she WOULD come tell me if someone is bullying her. Big difference.



posted on Jan, 6 2012 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by MrWendal


I never said she has not done anything wrong in her life. I said she wouldnt be dumb enough to take a weapon into school. I said she WOULD come tell me if someone is bullying her. Big difference.

 


And it means absolutely nothing in context to this story. Your daughter may know not to brandish a gun after a physical alteration, but it does not mean she will never face the law in her lifetime, or face other situations where she makes a fatal mistake.

That's the point.
edit on 6-1-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)


Edit to add:

I simply asked you if the scenario were different (involving your own child) would your opinion be the same.
edit on 6-1-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by MrWendal


I never said she has not done anything wrong in her life. I said she wouldnt be dumb enough to take a weapon into school. I said she WOULD come tell me if someone is bullying her. Big difference.

 


And it means absolutely nothing in context to this story. Your daughter may know not to brandish a gun after a physical alteration, but it does not mean she will never face the law in her lifetime, or face other situations where she makes a fatal mistake.

That's the point.
edit on 6-1-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)


Edit to add:

I simply asked you if the scenario were different (involving your own child) would your opinion be the same.
edit on 6-1-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)


But we are not discussing ANY situation. We are discussing THIS situation where a 15 year old brandished a weapon AT SCHOOL.

What part of that is hard to grasp? Let's not muddy the waters and throw out this scenario or that scenario.. lets talk THIS scenario, which is exactly what I have been discussing. This scenario, this context.

We live in a world where kids today have School Shooting Drills so they know what to do in the event that one happens at their school. Think about that for a second. When I was in school, we had fire drills that we practiced every month. So in the event of a fire, every student knew what to do.

So if your school is having School shooting drills, it is pretty clear that students are aware of what happens when a firearm is brought into their school. This issue is not even about bringing the firearm to school, he raised it and pointed it at Police, and we have to hear all this "Oh he shouldnt have shot him" nonsense. When your starting down the barrel of a gun, 10 seconds hesitation is 10 seconds too long and it can be the difference between weather you go home, or go to a morgue. At 15 years old, this kid knew what he was doing. For all we know, he did it on purpose and it is another case of suicide by cop, but to blame police for this is just silly. They did what they are trained to do in this case.

edit to add: Yes!! If my child brought a gun to school and pointed it at Police Officers and she was shot and killed as a result, my opinion would be the same. As a matter of fact, my opinion would be the same but considerably stronger because I KNOW my kid knows better and knows what the result of such an action would be.
edit on 7-1-2012 by MrWendal because: (no reason given)



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