Armed eighth-grader shot and killed by police

Originally posted by Darkblade71
I would really like to hear a police officers take on training with guns and the use of deadly force.
Any cops out there?

A prior career. MP & MPI. My answer stands. My training taught me that ultimately I was the authority on scene and had discretion. I used discretion a lot. I doubt I would have killed that kid. Peace.

reply to post by VforVendettea

There is no need EVER to raise a gun, a gun has one... ONE purpose.. to kill.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Blah blah bullied... blah blah poor... blah blah.... No excuses, he had a gun with the intention to use it, if he was carrying it he had planned to get hold of it and fill it with bullets, he planned to use it.

I'd rather see him shot, carrying an offensive weapon a million times than innocent kids being slaughtered because this kid was "depressed"

And before you jump in.... yeah, I'm depressive, I've been bullied and I aint rich... NON of those are reasons for me to kill other people.

Quit comparing this shooting to Columbine. The only common denominator is that it's a school like Columbine where the cops were so concerned with their own safety that the let more students die because they were afraid to move in.

What's most bothersome about this (and similar) event is that police massage & filter the information about the event in order to put themselves in the best light. Every news source uses the phrase the student "Engaged police" (instead of providing actual details) which is doublespeak for - police had legal grounds to kill him regardless if they could have talked him down or use other less lethal means to disarm him.

Nope, I wasn't there, but it bothers me that police withhold facts to ensure they can build a story to support their actions rather than just releasing all facts and letting them stand for themselves.

Originally posted by verylowfrequency
Nope, I wasn't there, but it bothers me that police withhold facts to ensure they can build a story to support their actions rather than just releasing all facts and letting them stand for themselves

So if you were not there and don't know the facts, how do you know that the poilce are withholding anything and are building a story?

reply to post by CALGARIAN


Tasered, NO.
The child had a gun.
Now 15 years old and in 8th grade, I graduated high school at 17 with a full real diploma, was this child troubled or something?
But as you can see on one of my signatures, "Live like a cowboy, Die like a cowboy".
This does not mean I have a stetson and boots, it means if you are going to play hard with me, expect nothing less from me, I also see this works both ways.
Apparently the officer saw the need to kill a child, that is not something that happens easily for anyone.

Originally posted by wrathchild
reply to post by MrWendal

 

Story said he was "Armed"....and engaged police.

safe to assume he was gonna kill somebody if the police didnt intervene

You are aware of what they say about "assuming" right?

What is the boy "armed" with? If he was "armed" with a potato do you think he should be killed for that?

I am not judging either side until I have all the facts. Telling me he was "armed" does not tell me much at all. If you were to attack me, Mr Wendal, and I have an option of weapons I can use. As a citizen I am held to a certain legal standard. So if you are armed with a Potato, if you are armed with a plastic spoon, I have no right to take your life for it. Attacking me with a potato is not an imminent threat to my life, but I can tase you and eliminate the physical threat you pose.

The law is very clear in these matters and that is why the details matter.

reply to post by JIMC5499


That's just it, only they know because a half day later they're still not telling. S.T.O.P., so all shooting incidents are categorized together to keep the police looking clean. Like you say who can argue, because they're still editing their reports. Sure we will get their story eventually, after it has been approved.

Tell me this. What justifies the time delay and how does that serve public interest? Again, it only serves to protect themselves.

Maybe they did right, maybe not, but we are made to assume right by the method they choose to reveal the story.

I can sleep at night because I have a clean conscious. I would rather take a bullet risking that I could save a messed up kid, rather than the militaristic approach of simply removing a threat. I guess that's why cops get paid so well, because it helps them live with their nightmares or paying someone to erase them.

CNN.. so it must be true~!!!

FTW !

2nd to be sure

reply to post by Mister_Bit

Better to be haunted by this than shot dead by a crazed idiot or worse, maimed... those "haunted" kids are still alive thanks to the cops

Nope, the kid had a pellet gun.

Originally posted by Mister_Bit
Just read the link and I don't see anything sad about it, he had a gun, he was shot.

I wont be wasting any tears for him.

He had a pellet gun.

Actually, if you follow school shootings, you would notice that nearly all the kid shooters involved committed suicide before police arrival. This was clearly a situation that could have been mediated.

Update at 6:25 p.m. ET: The weapon was a pellet gun that looked like a real firearm, AP now reports.

Link

FYI to everyone following this...

It was a pellet gun

Linky

VERY sad situation indeed

reply to post by XTexan


So, the doublespeak "engaged" was written in to create the thought of justification prior to releasing the facts. That is that the threat was imagined by scared child killing pussies.

Jeez, I was right for once - unbelievable.

reply to post by Pinkgomo653


Nice to see more people from the valley here...I thought I was the only one

reply to post by verylowfrequency


To be honest, I'm not sure how I would have responded to this myself. By "engaged" I assume they meant he aimed at them. I'd like to think that I, knowing it was a child, would have shot him in the leg to bring him down. I wasn't there though and in the heat of the moment quick decisions must be made, and quick decisions are seldom good ones.

What seems obvious to me is they ran up on the kid and didn't even consider taking cover and trying to talk him down. They took the kill shot because they were toe to toe with him yelling and not thinking straight. IMHO

Originally posted by XTexan
FYI to everyone following this...

It was a pellet gun

Linky

VERY sad situation indeed

edit on 4-1-2012 by XTexan because: add a line

Well this settles the whole issue for me. If the boy raised and pellet gun and was shot dead, the Police in this case are 100% justified.

In this situation the Police have a responsibility to not only protect the other students and staff of the school, but also themselves. I understand it was "only a pellet gun" but if you are in a situation where a split second makes a difference, you can not tell a pellet gun from a real gun anymore from any safe distance. The fact that the boy raised the pellet gun at Officers shows that a decision had to made in that very moment.

Here is a pellet gun you can buy today. The link goes to a site where you can purchase the gun and it shows a video of the pellet gun in action. Obviously when the trigger is pulled you know it was not a real gun, but lets remember here police had to react before the child even got a shot off.
CP99 Compact BB Gun

This is a .40 Cal Smith and Wesson. It is a real gun and it will kill you.
.40 Cal S&W


So now imagine you are 5 feet away from me and I raise one of these weapons at YOU. Do you think you can tell the difference before I shoot you in the face and you find out the hard way?

It's a tragic incident, but I do not think you can fault police for this at all.

I know waaay down the list of objectors, but your headline, taken from CNN internet is flat wrong. A holder of a pellet pistol is not "armed." Analyze that word. It is a shortened version of "firearm." A pellet gun pistol is nothing better than a BB gun.

I remember when cops would never think of shooting a young person or anybody for pointing a weapon at them. They would hold fire until fired upon. That was the standard. But like they continue to say on the TV Cops, "None of us were hurt. The operation went according to procedure, and we all get to go home to our families tonight."

That boy was definitely wrong and foolish. So were the cops for shooting him.

Originally posted by XTexan
FYI to everyone following this...

It was a pellet gun

Linky

VERY sad situation indeed

edit on 4-1-2012 by XTexan because: add a line

Thank you for that clarification. Your link there seems to fill in the blanks and if accurate in details, leaves little to question on the basics.

I'm very curious to see a pic or get a name of the pellet gun to see how realistic it was..and what they call a pellet gun. Air Soft guns are so real in appearance and actual physical function, at a distance it would be insane to assume they are fake. Even barrel size would be close enough to take immediate action, believing it's a real gun.

What a tragedy! I also sit here thinking of a Cop who will relive those few seconds thousands of times over the years to come....wishing with all his being he could go back, but of course, he never can. A tragedy to ALL sides.....including a kid who died of VERY bad judgement and circumstances that really didn't leave many other ways to end.

If he shot and killed an innocent student or teacher would we have any sympathy? Any person whether they're a juvinile or adult who brandishes a weapon are taking a risk that their decision could backfire and result in their own death.

To think that a 15 year-old or even a 10 year-old doesn't know the consequences or the result of firing a gun is rediculous. There's absolutely no excuse for this child's behavior.

sure its a tragedy, i have compassion for the boy. But the police did what they're paid to do. It could of been worse.

Originally posted by three1zero
there is usually only one reason a student brings a gun to school

How do you know? I'd wager kids take guns to school every day and don't shoot people..you just don't hear about it (clearly).

Originally posted by MrWendal

Well this settles the whole issue for me. If the boy raised and pellet gun and was shot dead, the Police in this case are 100% justified.

Satan's soldiers sacrifice another child and their comrades proclaim victory and justice as if they did something glorious.

Hail Caesar!