Hebrews and Muslims living Peacefully together in the Holy Bible

Originally posted by Aletheia007
reply to post by KJV1611

 

because there is no conspiracy here. This forum is for religious conspiracies not a discussion about what the bible says. YOur title to this thread is something that most ppl know anyway. People have lived in peace in the middle east regardless of the beliefs for centuries until Israel was born again.

The struggle between good and evil, the division of mankind, is the ultimate conspiracy. Con means against. Spirit is the law or intention of what we do by intent. Intent is by design and intention is the purpose for how we act according to the spirit we follow. Spirit is consciousness. Conspiracy is an agreement between two or more individuals to act against a law. The primary law of God is love and equality in unity toward His purposes for us in society.

Unless you can define conspiracy as anything other than being against the laws of God or man, a discussion of religion and how it applies to man's error with God's law cannot be defined otherwise.

From my viewpoint, this thread stands as a shining example of what evil is doing to change the laws and dictates of a Holy and Just God. It also seems to be trying to find the best answer to the conspiracy against the Jewish people and against the Arabs. They are brothers. Outside forces are hindering their relationship with the purpose of conspiring against humanity.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Dear SuperiorEd,

That was what I was thinking of. I wonder if the peace will coincide with why the temple is allowed to be rebuilt.

I think you're exactly right. Listening to the groups trying to rebuild the temple who are training the priests, manufacturing the temple vessels to be used et cetra state that they are working on the future temple in "mods" meaning when they are given the green light to begin building it can go up rather quickly. Guess what amount of time they claim they will be able to complete the temple once ground is to be broken?

3 1/2 years. My personal conjecture is that at the dedication ceremony is when the antichrist will defile the temple, setting himself up in it declaring that he is God.

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by AQuestion

 

That was what I was thinking of. I wonder if the peace will coincide with why the temple is allowed to be rebuilt.

I was thinking this peace will come about because Gog and Magog will attack Israel and Israel will defeat them. Then the anti-christ will have to move fast to stop Israel's future Military advancement. But these matters are grey at best as many are not sure to when this battle will take place.

But one thing is certain. You don't make peace with a Country unless they are beating the fool out of you....or you are beating them.

I formally thought this. After a careful reading of revelation, the Gog war seems to occur after the 1000 years are up and Satan is once again deceives the nations.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


defintion of conspiracy

1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated coastal areas.

I dont see good and evil being part of the definition do you? or god . So tell me where does this thread fall into the defintion of a conspiracy???
All I see is religious BS being quoted and not pertaining to the spirit of this site.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by AQuestion

 

That was what I was thinking of. I wonder if the peace will coincide with why the temple is allowed to be rebuilt.

I was thinking this peace will come about because Gog and Magog will attack Israel and Israel will defeat them. Then the anti-christ will have to move fast to stop Israel's future Military advancement. But these matters are grey at best as many are not sure to when this battle will take place.

But one thing is certain. You don't make peace with a Country unless they are beating the fool out of you....or you are beating them.

I formally thought this. After a careful reading of revelation, the Gog war seems to occur after the 1000 years are up and Satan is once again deceives the nations.

No, no. Gog will again lead a rebellion at the end of the 1,000 years, that is the 2nd time he will start a major war with God and his elect. "Gog" is a demon king, "Magog" is the region that includes the Muslim nations that were formally part of the USSR. The land of the ancient Scithians. (sp?)

reply to post by KJV1611

Agreed. The fig tree must first be planeted (1948) in order for it to bear fruit. As of today, Israel and Jews are enemies to Christians for the Gospels sake, but they are still beloved of God and will get their land.

Interesting fact. Did you know that all fig trees have a fig wasp? Each species of tree has a unique wasp. There are over 900 different variations. A fig tree must be pollinated by the wasp to bear fruit. When fig trees are grafted one to the other, a strain is eventually developed that can bear fruit apart from the wasp. The fig wasp is not needed after the gardener propagates the parthenocarpic fig tree. The work that God has done, as reflected in the Bible, represents this process of developing a tree that bears its own fruit. Exactly what must be done to develop artificial consciousness that can think on its own.

When we start bearing fruit apart from duplicity (acting in self-interests), we are free from sin and death. Faith is belief in the one grafting us into the tree.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by AQuestion

 

That was what I was thinking of. I wonder if the peace will coincide with why the temple is allowed to be rebuilt.

I was thinking this peace will come about because Gog and Magog will attack Israel and Israel will defeat them. Then the anti-christ will have to move fast to stop Israel's future Military advancement. But these matters are grey at best as many are not sure to when this battle will take place.

But one thing is certain. You don't make peace with a Country unless they are beating the fool out of you....or you are beating them.

I formally thought this. After a careful reading of revelation, the Gog war seems to occur after the 1000 years are up and Satan is once again deceives the nations.

No, no. Gog will again lead a rebellion at the end of the 1,000 years, that is the 2nd time he will start a major war with God and his elect. "Gog" is a demon king, "Magog" is the region that includes the Muslim nations that were formally part of the USSR. The land of the ancient Scithians. (sp?)

Interesting. I'll research that more.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

Responsible is a word that would not be accurate. God allows evil because free will demands that choice must be infinite in scope. To say God is responsible would suggest that he designed this destiny.

That is exactly what I am implying. Although it is hard to think of this in a so called "Christian" perspective. And as usual, I offer scripture and not my own opinion on the matter:

Ezk 43:7-8 -- Ezk 39:23 -- Ezk 15:6 -- Lam 4:18 and many more

Ezk 5:4 "Then take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire; for thereof shall a fire come forth into all the house of Israel. "

LAMENTATIONS 4:8
Their visage is blacker than a coal; they are not known in the streets: their skin cleaveth to their bones; it is withered, it is become like a stick.

Although this may be accurate to the defeat of evil in WWII, the evil has little to do with God's destiny for man. God allows evil when good can come. The evil itself is not a design of God, but a provision for the greater glory of what can come from the allowance of free will.

Not so sure about this either. Believe it or not, but God Himself works "evil" as well as Good.

Job 2:10
"...What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive EVIL? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. "

And many more verse where God Himself said He would work evil. Now evil in this sense is not sin per say, but it is something bad happening. When the tribulation hits, there will be plenty of "evil" taking place.

God is ultimately responsible for justice and never evil. We are born again to overcome.

Who is to say the Holocaust was not Justice to begin with....?

Matthew 27:24-25
"When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
"Then answered all the people, and said, His BLOOD BE on us, and on our CHILDREN.

God has killed the Jews in mass genocides at least three times in the Bible....why think we God wouldn't do it again in the Holocaust....? Matter of fact....God plans on killing off the majority of the Jews again in the coming Tribulation....That Holy Bible is hard to handle some times guys.....its more than most can take.

Originally posted by Aletheia007
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

defintion of conspiracy

1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated coastal areas.

I dont see good and evil being part of the definition do you? or god . So tell me where does this thread fall into the defintion of a conspiracy???
All I see is religious BS being quoted and not pertaining to the spirit of this site.

Many people try to define con as for, or in favor. This would be correct depending on the direction you take the end of the definition. Con actually means against when the end of the definition is properly placed. For instance:

Stitute means to make stand for an unworthy cause. If you say constitution, you are against making the people stand for an unworthy cause. You are also in favor of causing the opposite, making stand for a worthy cause. Prostitution would be the same. Pro is for. To be for something, you are also against the people who stand for the converse argument. Either way, con is against when viewed correctly.

For instance, a tribute is a forced payment.

To contribute is not a forced tribute. It is against a forced tribute. It is voluntary payment.

So what you are saying is, "con is the English shortened form of the Latin word contra, meaning against, or opposed to. Pro is the Latin for "for," or "in favour of;" contra is simply the Latin preposition and adverb for "against.""

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Ok, for the Gog and Magog thing...one thing is for certain, there are different opinions on the matter!

Believe it or not, but I was under the persuasion that the Battle would take place after the Millennium as well, and I changed my mind to believe the other way! The opposite of you Ed

But here is how I see it unfolding. The Battle of Gog and Magog will take place before the Rapture....AND after the Millennium as well. How? Well, the same way Babylon fell Historically in the scriptures, and the way it will fall Prophetically as well. The same goes for many different Nations mentioned in the Bible.

Just as the Reign of Solomon was a Historic TYPE of Jesus Christs Millennium reign, as well as how Job was a TYPE of the Jews during the tribulation....both of which were restored in the end. Plus Job had to pray for his "friends" to receive forgiveness, just as the Jews in the Millennium will have to pray for the strangers and gentiles to get forgiveness :

ZECHARIAH 8:23
"Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that GOD IS WITH YOU."

The Bible is FULL of TYPES and prophecies which many just read right over.

reply to post by WarminIndy

The stranger does not necessarily mean Muslims, but any person who was not part of the Jewish community. Last night I was reading again the story of Joseph in Egypt and after he had already been in Egypt for a long time and was the governor of Egypt under Pharaoh, he made provisions so his relatives would have land. The land was paid for in Egypt for the Jews to live, but subsequent pharaohs would not recognize that. Their land was taken from them.

The Jews had no problem interacting with Egyptians, but if you read it carefully, the Egyptians considered it an abomination to eat with the Hebrews and they thought shepherds were an abomination. And in more modern times, what amazes me was how God did indeed work for Israel to have a place. Read the Battle of Beersheba, it is so interesting.

In that battle, the Jews had 3 battalions, no one was killed and 120 Egyptians were taken prisoner of war. How many times do those numbers keep showing up in the Bible? 120 singers in the temple of Solomon when he dedicated it, 120 witnesses at the upper room. 3 men who came to Abraham, and the three is countless times.

Great observation. And you better believe there are a lot to do with the numbers in the Holy Bible. Even the Chapter and verses "appear" to be inspired in some way as well. I have many examples.

We must remember this, the blood of Jesus was spilled in Jerusalem, and it cries up to God even to this day. His blood spilled from the first moment He was hit, it spilled on the rocks and from the crown of thorns and it spilled in the whipping and it spilled all the way down the street as He fell under the staggering weight of the cross and it spilled down the cross onto the ground. Water and blood came from His side as He was stabbed by the soldier's spear. The blood is there to this day, crying out to God.

Absolutely incredible statement!! There is SOOOOOOO much in what you just said! You should make your own thread about this very topic. That blood cries for Justice just a Abel's did. That BLOOD must and WILL be avenged by GOD. God cannot stand a land that is defiled with blood. It will be under a curse. The penalty for killing another man in cold blood according to the Law...was DEATH. The Jews have been dying for this ever since Matthew 27:24. Star for you and all you guys.

reply to post by KJV1611

The Battle of Gog and Magog will take place before the Rapture....AND after the Millennium as well. How?

LOL, you're BOTH correct!!!!!

Because "Gog" in the Bible is a demon king. "Magog" is the land of Gog. He yet again will lead a rebellion against the Lord at the end of the Millenium.


Missler's teachings on the matter have been a great blessing to me and I hope to share it with you.

Looks like DontTreadOnMe, one of the mods, has moved this thread to another religious forum. Wonder what purpose that will serve?

As for verses 22-23 in the OP, does anyone disagree with it, and why? Or has anyone ever heard of such? Surly I'm not the first to put this idea together

reply to post by KJV1611


This is quite a heavy thread.. If you have ever read the quran you will understand that the quran is the 3rd testament of God. Islam makes refrence to xtian disciples and prophets, muslims believe in jesu or jesus, xtianity has been re-written the way the roman catholics wanted it to be written many years ago.. Bottom line, as long as the US warmachine needs death, there will be. And oil is war money.

reply to post by freee


What is an "xtian"?

few want to know the story of how to sects came from one , let alone know the words of both, Jewish later christian, and Islam. But how can this be ? do you not know the story of Abram? www.newadvent.org... from the link there is more but then why drink milk when there is meat

Then the promise is guaranteed by a sacrifice between God and Abram, and by a vision and a supernatural intervention in the night. Sarai, who was far advanced in years and had given up the idea of bearing children, persuaded Abram to take to himself her hand-maid, Agar. He does so, and Agar being with child despises the barren Sarai. For this Sarai afflicts her so that she flies into the desert, but is persuaded to return by an angel who comforts her with promises of the greatness of the son she is about to bear. She returns and brings forth Ismael. Thirteen years later God appears to Abram and promises him a son by Sarai, and that his posterity will be a great nation. As a sign, he changes Abram's name to Abraham, Sarai's to Sara, and ordains the rite of circumcision. One day later, as Abraham is sitting by his tent, in the vale of Mambre, Jehovah with two angels appears to him in human form. He shows them hospitality. Then again the promise of a son named Isaac is renewed to Abraham. The aged Sarah hears incredulously and laughs. Abraham is then told of the impending destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha for their sins but obtains from Jehovah the promise that he will not destroy them if he finds ten just men therein. Then follows a description of the destruction of the two cities and the escape of Lot. Next morning Abraham, looking from his tent towards Sodom, sees the smoke of destruction ascending to heaven. After this, Abraham moves south to Gerara, and again fearing for his life says of his wife, "she is my sister". The king of Gerara, Abimelech, sends and takes her, but learning in a dream that she is Abraham's wife he restores her to him untouched, and rebukes him and gives him gifts. In her old age Sarah bears a son, lsaac, to Abraham, and he is circumcised on the eighth day. Whilst he is still young, Sarah is jealous, seeing Ismael playing with the child Isaac, so she procures that Agar and her son shall be cast out. Then Agar would have allowed Ismael to perish in the wilderness, had not an angel encouraged her by telling her of the boy's future. Abraham is next related to have had a dispute with Abimelech over a well at Bersabee, which ends in a covenant being made between them. It was after this that the great trial of the faith of Abraham takes place. God commands him to sacrifice his only son Isaac. When Abraham has his arm raised and is in the very act of striking, an angel from heaven stays his hand and makes the most wonderful promises to him of the greatness of his posterity because of his complete trust in God. Sarah dies at the age of 127, and Abraham, having purchased from Ephron the Hethite the cave in Machpelah near Mambre, buries her there. His own career is not yet quite ended for first of all he takes a wife for his son Isaac, Rebecca from the city of Nachor in Mesopotamia. Then he marries Cetura, old though he is, and has by her six children. Finally, leaving all his possessions to Isaac, he dies at age 170, and is buried by Isaac and Ismael

so you see one father 2 sons as was then as is now, now if we just learned how to get along the would be no religious wars, just peace.

reply to post by KJV1611


I have been doing alot of research on the subject of affairs in the middle east as of late, and my current position is that both Israel and Palestine have a right to coincide in that land together. I used to be a supporter of Christian Zionism because of bible prophecy, but I didn't know what I was actually supporting. Christian Zionism comes in various shades, but the core of its message is total, unflinching support to the state of Israel and the Zionist imperialist project.

Christian Zionists believe that the Jews are God's 'Chosen People' and that God has given the Jews the absolute right to complete control over not just Palestine but, indeed, a vast stretch of territory, extending from present-day Egypt to Iraq, the so-called 'Greater Israel'. God, they claim, has selected the Jews above all other people. Hence, they insist, those who oppose the imperialist project of the advocates of 'Greater Israel' or the Zionist occupation of Palestine are 'God's enemies', deserving to be crushed by every available means, including outright war and decimation.

I personally don't believe this any longer, I do not believe the Palestinian people are "Gods enemies". I think we in the west often forget about the many Christian Palestinians that have been persecuted and killed by the Jewish Israeli state. This is not something that's often talked about. I believe Christian Zionism is a call for global war and Is not something Jesus would have advocated. Jesus is the Prince of Peace, not war - Isaiah 9:6.

I am coming to the opinon that all believers in Christ are the true Isrealites, and children of God. Mainstream Christians seem to have no qualms about dismissing the likes of the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Christian Scientists and Seventh Day Adventists as cults, yet Christian Zionism is a far worse cult than any of those. Christian Zionism is anti-Christian. It is even more dangerous than Satanism. These store the Old Testament law along with Temple sacrifices because it is a denial of the sacrifice of Christ’s blood once for all to end all animal sacrifices. Racism is also integral to the Christian Zionist message, you will always see them making fun of muslim people and arabs this is not right at all.

---------The Muslims rejected it because they did not want to live with the Jews. They are RACISTS and Discriminators

Got to be careful with this line of thought... Not all muslims are racist evil people. IMO there are as many racist Jews as there are Muslims, but if you call a Jew racist you get called an anti-Semite which I think is a total double standard.

After WWII however, the Jews were MORE than willing to have their own State back to avoid another Holocaust....the Lord works in mysterious ways huh? And yes, God was directly responsible for the Holocaust. You can bet your last dollar on that.

I must admit the holocaust is way over-exaggerated if real at all, the death toll was probably alot lower then the official figures. Most of the "exterminated" dead Jew pictures which they claim the Nazi's killed are people that actually died of disease and famine. I have yet to make my opinion if holo-caust even happened, why do I say this? Because Truth is not determined by a majority vote it is determined by evidence.

1. True Christians are in a state of shock that dispensationalists want to restore the Old Testament law along with Temple sacrifices because it is a denial of the sacrifice of Christ’s blood once for all to end all animal sacrifices.

2. Rapture false teachers want Israel to become a nation again mainly to fulfill the promise of inheriting the land. Problem is, the Bible clearly says Israel got the land long ago under Joshua and Solomon.

3. There is not a Jew alive today or anyone in the nation of Israel that knows which tribe they are from. It comes as a surprise to most people that the majority of Jews living in Israel today are gentile proselytes, being Russians who converted to Judaism.

"The level of Bible knowledge of those who believe in the Rapture is very low. They just read an Old Testament passage by ripping it out of context and apply it to a still future event 3000 years later!"

Source

Going to also PM you some links.