Huge News! Obama Must Prove Eligibility in Court Now as Motion to Dismiss is DENIED.

reply to post by Kafternin


Sun Yat-sen ( not really born in Hawaii)

And yet, certified by the state of Hawaii to be born there...

According to Lee Yun-ping, chairman of the Chinese historical society, Sun needed a certificate to enter the United States at a time when the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 would have otherwise blocked him.[38] But on Sun's first attempt to enter the US, he was still arrested.[38] He was later bailed out after 17 days.[38] In March 1904, Sun Yat-sen obtained a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth,[39] issued by the Territory of Hawaii, stating he was born on November 24, 1870 in Kula, Maui.[40] Official files of the United States show that Sun had United States nationality, moved to China with his family at age 4, and returned to Hawaii 10 years later.[41]

Personal details
Born 12 November 1866
Xiangshan, Guangdong, China

Hawaii is a little casual about vital statistics... SUN YAT_SEN FOR PRESIDENT!!!!

Source

reply to post by kawika


Let me get this straight. You have one example from over 100 years ago and you failed to even actually show it? Don't hurt yourself reaching.

More importantly, what does this have to do with Obama's birth registration in the state archives? You seem to be trying to confuse two different issues on purpose.

reply to post by Kafternin


I would give more examples but the Hawaiian Gov website with the list of fraudulent BC's is down for maintenance now.

My point is they register foreign births. Details are important.

This is not a court of law. This is my opinion. If there had not been such a difficulty in getting the paper it would not be suspicious. But there was and it is.

You are entitled to your own opinion.

I have been involved in different kinds of audits and inspections. If you are honest and up front about what might be wrong, the auditor tends to go easier on you. If you are evasive they dig harder.

I think they have been evasive. And I don't know why. But it deserves to be heard in court, where they do have the authority and resources to find the truth.

reply to post by rnaa

De Vattel has nothing to offer this discussion. His book was not published in English until years after the Constitution, and the Founding Fathers, if they knew about his work at all, took no notice of it.

Obviously they had a copy. Ben Franklin even sent him a thank you note. Will let you know when I find a pdf of that. Long thread...

In attempting to recover the Constitution’s distinction between treaties and nontreaty
agreements, courts and scholars have relied primarily on the work of eighteenth century
writers, such as Emerich de Vattel.
79
The Founders were familiar with Vattel’s treatise, The
Law of Nations,
80
and there is evidence that they relied on it in drafting the Constitution’s
provisions governing foreign relations.
81
Indeed, according to the Supreme Court, Vattel was
the “international jurist most widely cited in the first 50 years after the Revolution.”
8

1st source Harvard Law

The book influenced many of the Founding Fathers of the United States of America, including George Washington, Benjamin Franklin and Alexander Hamilton. de Vattel's work was heavily influenced by Christian Wolff.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]

2nd source

Originally posted by kawika
reply to post by Kafternin

 

I would give more examples but the Hawaiian Gov website with the list of fraudulent BC's is down for maintenance now.

Your excuse generator is running full steam though. You have yet to give one example. Where is that BC? Are you suggesting I take Wikipedia's word for it? I have a secret to tell you. Check Obama's Wiki and see where it says he was born. Now tell me which sources you used again? Oh, just that same one?

My point is they register foreign births. Details are important.

I thought your point was that they issued certificates for foreign births? You are making one argument and trying to prove another.

This is not a court of law. This is my opinion. If there had not been such a difficulty in getting the paper it would not be suspicious. But there was and it is.

I am only interested in facts because this is a reality fact based discussion where opinions are worthless.

You are entitled to your own opinion.

I have been involved in different kinds of audits and inspections. If you are honest and up front about what might be wrong, the auditor tends to go easier on you. If you are evasive they dig harder.

I think they have been evasive. And I don't know why. But it deserves to be heard in court, where they do have the authority and resources to find the truth.

edit on 8-1-2012 by kawika because: corectolated spel'n err

edit on 8-1-2012 by kawika because: corectolated spel'n err

edit on 8-1-2012 by kawika because: corectolated spel'n err

So far every point you have presented from which you based your opinion on has shown to be false and yet you cling to your opinion for no good reason, completely in the face of being shown to be wrong. What do you suppose that says to anyone being honestly critical of the situation without considering partisanship or feelings?

reply to post by Kafternin


Barry?

Is that you?

reply to post by kawika


Nothing to do with NBC though?
Shame your posts continue to fail you.
It actually makes me feel bad.

Has anyone seen these documents:

Obama's high school diploma

Obama's college degrees

Are they in his office now ?

Originally posted by xuenchen
Has anyone seen these documents:

Obama's high school diploma
Obama's college degrees
Are they in his office now ?

has anyone seen all those from previous Presidents?

Oh, none of them were black so they do not matter!

reply to post by xuenchen


Sadly no. His thesis is missing also. I always keep an eye out for them when I am out garage sale'n. Here is a handy list for you.

List of missing documents link

And one more...

one more

maybe just one more

3rd list here

reply to post by spoor

has anyone seen all those from previous Presidents?

Oh, none of them were black so they do not matter!

Here is the high school diploma for Big Ron

Big Ron Diploma link here

I really miss the 80's...

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by xuenchen
Has anyone seen these documents:

Obama's high school diploma
Obama's college degrees
Are they in his office now ?

has anyone seen all those from previous Presidents?

Oh, none of them were black so they do not matter!

Yes I have.

I think all documentation from all U.S. Presidents is valid and it matters.

Sharing great achievements would be the "credible" thing to do.

Don't you agree ?

I would assume the POTUS would be proud of diplomas of greatness and higher learnings.

What will future generations think ?

He says he has not found the BC, but something else he can use. The something else was a logbook of some kind. Alphabetical names, years 60 to 64. I remember seeing a photo of the entry but the link is dead now.

reply to post by kawika


I think you are referring to the index record. This has been published before Abercrombie took office, it is not something 'new' that he found.

Photo and Description of Index Records

From the Hawai'ian Department of Health FAQ on Obama's records:

Index Data

Haw. Rev. Stat. §338-18(d) states, “Index data consisting of name and sex of the registrant, type of vital event, and such other data as the director may authorize shall be made available to the public.” Refer to link above for HRS §338-18.

Index data consisting of name and sex of the registrant, and type of event is made available to the public. The director, in accordance with HRS §338-18(d), has not authorized any other data to be made available to the public.

Index data referred to in HRS §338-18 from vital records in the State of Hawaii is available for inspection at the Department of Health’s Office of Health Status Monitoring at 1250 Punchbowl Street in Honolulu. The public will be asked to provide identification and sign in to inspect the names and sex of all births, deaths and marriages that occurred in the state. Data are maintained in bound copies by type of event with names listed alphabetically by last name.

The index data regarding President Obama is:

Birth Index
Obama II, Barack Hussein
Male

To request a search for index data, provide a first and last name of the individual, and the type of event along with a self-addressed, stamped envelope. Requests must be sent in writing to:

State Department of Health
Office of Health Status Monitoring
Issuance/Vital Statistics Section
P.O. Box 3378
Honolulu, HI 96801

There may be a cost for search, segregation and copying based on the request. If prepayment is required, the DOH will send a Notice to Requestor form with the amount required for prepayment. Only a money order, certified check, or cashier’s check (make money order and checks payable to the State Department of Health) will be accepted. Personal checks will not be accepted. All fees are non-refundable; if no data is found after a search is conducted, the fees are retained to cover the cost of the search. Requests for index data will be sent out within 2-3 weeks after receipt of payment.

So you can get a copy of the Index page that contains Obama's name if you follow the rules above. The birth index data is not the Birth Certificate, of course, and you cannot get access to the Birth Certificate without a tangible interest as defined elsewhere in HRS §338.

The index is a list of the people for whom the State is maintaining birth event vital statistics. Barrack Obama is one of those people. The index proves the State holds the record of his birth and can produce an official Certified copy of that birth information (i.e. a Birth Certificate) when he requests it. Such an officially produced Birth Certificate proves where and when he was born, and is prima facie evidence in any legal proceeding anywhere in the United States.

Originally posted by kawika
List of missing documents link

Another birther lie from you - they are not missing, they are in the same place as all the similiar records from all Previous Presidents -

so how about you show us the links to all those records from all previous presidents, then you will find Obama's!

double post

Originally posted by rnaa
I think you are referring to the index record. This has been published before Abercrombie took office, it is not something 'new' that he found.

It has also been available for public viewing for years....
azstarnet.com...

HONOLULU (AP) — Lost in the renewed scrutiny into President Obama’s birth records is the fact that anyone can walk into a Hawaii vital records office, wait in line behind couples getting marriage licenses and open a baby-blue government binder containing basic information about his birth. Highlighted in yellow on page 1,218 of the thick binder is the computer-generated listing for a boy named Barack Hussein Obama II born in Hawaii, surrounded by the alphabetized last names of all other children born in-state between 1960 and 1964. This is the only government birth information, called “index data,” available to the public. So far this month, only the Associated Press and one other person had looked at the binder, according to a sign-in sheet viewed Wednesday in the state Department of Health building. The sheet showed about 25 names of people who have seen the document since March 2010, when the sign-in sheet begins.

or
www.usatoday.com...

So why dont birthers go and look at it?

reply to post by kawika

Recording of the birth does not mean, in Hawaii. They record foreign births and issue a short form sometimes.

For the convenience of adopting parents, their foreign born children can be 'registered' in Hawai'i. Such registration will NOT say the child was born in Hawai'i, it will list the ACTUAL place of birth. This possibility did not exist in 1961, it only came into being in 1982, I believe. Even if it were possible in 1961, and Obama had been born in Kenya, his Hawai'ian Certificate would say he was born in Kenya, not Honolulu. Furthermore, these certificates are not called 'Certificate of Live Birth', they are called 'Certificate of Foreign Birth'.

Finally, Hawai'i does not have a 'short form' nor a 'long form'. Some states have both a short form and a long form as standard issue, you can ask for which ever suits your fancy. Hawai'i is not one of those states. Hawai'i has only one form, the 'standard form', that has been used for over 10 years. The so-called 'long form' obtained by Obama and published by the White House is a non-standard form, issued via a non-standard process, by special request from the President of the United States, a request that convinced the Department of Health to waive its standard procedures and produce a Birth Certificate in the non-standard format.

Anyone born in Hawai'i may make a similar request, but their success in convincing the Department to violate administrative procedures may not match the President's.

Do I have to do all the work here. Can you people not do research?

I can't figure out what work you are doing other than parroting propaganda talking points. Do you do any research at all, or do you just follow your instructions from the Koch astroturfing project committee?

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by rnaa
I think you are referring to the index record. This has been published before Abercrombie took office, it is not something 'new' that he found.

It has also been available for public viewing for years....
azstarnet.com...

HONOLULU (AP) — Lost in the renewed scrutiny into President Obama’s birth records is the fact that anyone can walk into a Hawaii vital records office, wait in line behind couples getting marriage licenses and open a baby-blue government binder containing basic information about his birth. Highlighted in yellow on page 1,218 of the thick binder is the computer-generated listing for a boy named Barack Hussein Obama II born in Hawaii, surrounded by the alphabetized last names of all other children born in-state between 1960 and 1964. This is the only government birth information, called “index data,” available to the public. So far this month, only the Associated Press and one other person had looked at the binder, according to a sign-in sheet viewed Wednesday in the state Department of Health building. The sheet showed about 25 names of people who have seen the document since March 2010, when the sign-in sheet begins.

So why dont birthers go and look at it?

Hmmm.

The article fails to show the document.

I read somewhere that it is a computer generated printout, not a genuine burden of proof certified ledger.

Hmmm. The article fails to show the document. I read somewhere that it is a computer generated printout, not a genuine burden of proof certified ledger.

reply to post by xuenchen


My link in the post a few above Spoor's goes to the same AP article published in a different paper and does show a photo of the index page.

And yes it is a computer print out. The index is a computer data file, what else would you expect the index to look like?

7 minute video, quick analysis of obvious forgery. Decide for yourself.





Link to official white house site BC pdf