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RFP (Request for Proposals) from Religious Leaders on ATS

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posted on Jan, 4 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
...
Eastern Orthdox Catholic
...

edit on 4-1-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)


Not that it matters much, but there is "Eastern Catholic" which is Catholic theology with Orthodox rituals and there is "Eastern Orthodox" which is a somewhat different theology from Catholics and Protestants. (Don't ask me what the difference is because it was all over my ..)

Also, you should consider the Mayan religion since this is that year.
edit on 4-1-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 4 2012 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by cloudyday
 


I do, believe me!
My last post was to NOTurTypical, who is a Christian.

I am aware of the Occidental religions as well, and the Native American (whether North, Central, or South)....
and I have studied them.

I have studied Judaism, Islam, Taoism, Buddhism, Native American Spirituality, Celtic, Pagan, etc. All of it...I'm willing to hear ANYONE who has a firm belief at this point.

But thanks, good point!!



posted on Jan, 4 2012 @ 10:14 PM
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This isn't a proposal, but I thought I would share a few things you might find interesting. Have you by chance read Noreaster's thread, The truth concerning what humans worship as god?
It's lengthy, but well worth the time spent IMO.

Also, a book by the name of "The Golden Bough" might be of interest to you as well.

S&F for you, and I'll be watching this thread.
edit on 1/4/2012 by Klassified because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2012 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Well, to begin with, I wouldn't put much stock into ANYBODIES religious experiences. Why? Because experiences are different for everybody!! It seems everyone you talk to who has had a religious "experience" has their own flavor on how it happened.

So WE can't use feelings, experiences, emotions, passions, or stubbornness as a FINAL AUTHORITY to base our beliefs on.

So what do we use then? Why a religion text of course!! But there are many text. So we must choice ONE set version of each religious text in order to study from.

I propose for the Christian Religion to use the King James Bible for all future discussion in regards to this religion. The reasons for this are many and will be dealt with if needed, but I am sure most Christians will agree.

Now we need a Muslim, Mormon, Hindu etc to choice their religious text as their final authority on all matters of FAITH and PRACTICE. Anyone willing to step up and decide for their Religion?



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Nearly all of today’s religions imagine that they are the only true path to God. They teach that unbelievers are somehow less, they encourage the believers to reject non-believers as second class citizens.

The second flaw is most of today’s religions have some sort of intermediary between you and knowledge. It is as if one has to be a Guru of sorts to get any understanding out of the book. And what’s worse, these Guru’s, Rabbi’s and Pastors can’t even agree with what is in the book. So you have to pick and choose what’s right for you. Kind of like building the God that is right for you instead of getting to know God.

The third flaw is these Gurus’s and Pastors and Rabbi’s they all assume a place of righteousness over you. They all claim they have had this wonderful calling from God and now it is your job to prove that you love God by paying their bills.

The fourth flaw with today’s religions is that they offer no way out. If you are like me and judging by your post you are me only 5 years ago, you have grown tired of your way of life. And most all religions will tell you smile, be good and the reward awaits at the end of the road. Basically condemning you to this life you currently live. Now this may not be a bad thing, I know for me I wasn’t deeply concerned with my life, but I felt for some reason something better was out there. But it is depressing to think that this is all life has to offer. Really I have to keep screwing up without the hope of getting right tell I die.

The fifth flaw of most major religions is they teach about a God that is somehow distant from his creation. A god that actually created us and is kind of aloof showing up now and then just to mess with us, expecting us to kind of figure it out for ourselves. You know a God that says I created you, gave you a profit and a book, what more do you want? Can’t you see I’m busy.

The good news is that most religions actually accept that the book they read from is divinely inspired and many actually practice things the rest of the world finds degrading to women. So being a woman you will have to accept that you simply aren’t mans equal if you choose to follow them. But hey at least you know they are divinely inspired.

But there is this one religion that I would stay away from. It takes 30,000 different viewpoints to understand the book. Within these 30,000 viewpoints they don’t even agree what the contents of the book are. They literally condemn the whole world to hell if they don’t believe what they believe. They go to churches that teach things that directly contradict the book and they pay people to teach them these contradictions. They don’t read the book for themselves because it’s easier just to pay someone every week to butcher the interpretation for them.

There is this book however that is different. It teaches about a God that has been in contact with his creation since the beginning. This same book actually promises that God himself will send his Holy Spirit down to live inside you, to teach you everything about God. This same spirit will help you understand every word that is written in the book. This same book actually tells you that all believers are equal parts of one body so that you are just as valuable as every other believer. This same book teaches it’s followers to never judge anyone, and if someone doesn’t believe we should love them and pray for them. The God in this book says that he will Judge both believers and unbelievers fairly. Be careful though if you choose this path that same God says you will be held to a higher standard. After all he does promise you his spirit to help you. In this book there is a man named Jesus. The book says that he is the son of God. If you read his message it will teach you exactly what a follower of the book should do. And this son calls you and me his brothers and sisters. He loved us so much that he was willing to die for us. So if you want to believe in a God that loved us enough to preserve his word in one book, has always been in contact with us, even to the point that he lets his very spirit live in us, and who sent his son to teach us the way, and this son actually gave up his life for you, then I think you should pick up the bible.

The message I bring to you I would not have been able to share with you six months ago. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is real. You can have a changed life; you can become free from the bondage of sin. If you trust that every word in the bible is indeed inspired by the Holy Spirit. If you can accept the father, son and Holly Spirit as real. If you are ready to repent and truly change to be the best you can be, the bible is for you. If you read this book without faith then nothing happens. Faith is the key to unlock the love hidden inside this book.

One last note if you choose the bible choose the one that is easiest for you to read, the Holy Spirit works as a translator in his spare time so you can be sure the message was perserved.

edit on 5-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
Okay, I'm not getting very far in my search for religious "sense" here on ATS.
...


It doesn't seem like you're getting responses from religious leaders, so I had some thoughts from the peanut gallery.

I'm curious what you mean by your "search for religious sense". Are you studying religions as an intellectual curiosity or are you trying to choose a religion for yourself? I'm assuming you are trying to choose a religion because you were asking for a sales pitch from a variety of religious leaders. I think it would be interesting to discuss the best criteria for choosing a religion. For example, if you think of religion as a tool to integrate the individual into society, then you should choose the religion shared by your neighbours. Or if you think of religion as a tool to increase your happiness, then you should find people that seem happy and try to determine if their religion made them happy or if they are naturally happy people regardless of their religion. Or if you think of religion as truth then you can test the theology against reality.



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by cloudyday
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Also, you should consider the Mayan religion since this is that year.


I was not aware of that, or is it perhaps a typo?

Are the Mayans a christian religion?

Or was that just AFTER the spanish invaded?



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by cloudyday
 



I'm curious what you mean by your "search for religious sense". Are you studying religions as an intellectual curiosity or are you trying to choose a religion for yourself?


I'm studying it as an intellectual curiosity. Very astute of you. I offered up the thread so that those who are wanting to recruit others could share the methods by which they do so.

I am not trying to choose a "religion" for myself. I have a pretty firmly established set of beliefs already...

But, I am mostly a student of human behavior and sociology. Getting to hear the spiritual and/or faith-based ideas of others gives me more to ponder about the state of humanity and the what-makes-you-tick thing.

Got any more peanuts? Mmmmm....I like the "New! New! New! Planters Five-Alarm Chili" kind.... look for them on your grocer's shelves...and if you make space in the jar and add raisins, give it a really good shaking, it's a super-awesome, low sodium, healthy treat!



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by Klassified
 



This isn't a proposal, but I thought I would share a few things you might find interesting. Have you by chance read Noreaster's thread, The truth concerning what humans worship as god?
It's lengthy, but well worth the time spent IMO.

Also, a book by the name of "The Golden Bough" might be of interest to you as well.

S&F for you, and I'll be watching this thread.


Thanks!! I was hoping to hear from you, Klass, in fact it was your recent disclosure that you were a leader who left on grounds of morality that inspired me to post this thread! I admire your integrity.

I have not read Noreaster's thread, but I SHALL, today. I really enjoy his writing, and his philosophies. He's one of the more worthwhile members from my pov.

I have read the "Golden Bough" -- I own a copy of it and refer to it often as I peruse legends and mythologies.
I have volumes that cover everything from Celtic Shamanism to American Indian myths and legends and the Tibetan Book of the Dead, and lots and lots in between.

Have you read A History of God; the 4,000 year quest of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, by Karen Armstrong, Alfred A Knopf, New York, copyright 1993?

Highly recommend it...she has been an insider, too, turned scholar and researcher. REALLY good stuff.

edit on 5-1-2012 by wildtimes because: clarity



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 



I propose for the Christian Religion to use the King James Bible for all future discussion in regards to this religion. The reasons for this are many and will be dealt with if needed, but I am sure most Christians will agree.


The King James Bible is the one I own, and the one into which I was indoctrinated as an Episcopalian (also known as Anglican). So, that's cool. BUT... it's important to remember that ALL of the 34,000+ Christian religions have a different "take" on the volume.
And I have come across many people who maintain it is not the best one.

For anyone interested, here's some info on the history of the KJV: A Brief History of the King James Bible, written by Dr. Laurence M. Vance

As the reign of Elizabeth (1558-1603) was coming to a close, we find a draft for an act of Parliament for a new version of the Bible: "An act for the reducing of diversities of bibles now extant in the English tongue to one settled vulgar translated from the original." The Bishop's Bible of 1568, although it may have eclipsed the Great Bible, was still rivaled by the Geneva Bible. Nothing ever became of this draft during the reign of Elizabeth, who died in 1603, and was succeeded by James 1, as the throne passed from the Tudors to the Stuarts. James was at that time James VI of Scotland, and had been for thirty-seven years. He was born during the period between the Geneva and the Bishop's Bible.


I think we do have a Muslim aboard (still waiting to hear back)...more than one Christian....(a sampling of different denominations as well as unaffiliated Christians)...

thanks for chiming in!!

I thought of asking the mods to change the title to invite not ONLY leaders, but followers and proselytizers:

pros·e·lyt·ize [pros-uh-li-tahyz]
verb (used with object), verb (used without object), -ized, -iz·ing.
to convert or attempt to convert as a proselyte; recruit.


But, I think it might actually be more worthwhile if it's left as is (a stab at creating a troll-repellent).



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 



paragraphs 1-7........then There is this book however that is different. It teaches about a God that has been in contact with his creation since the beginning. This same book actually promises that God himself will send his Holy Spirit down to live inside you, to teach you everything about God. This same spirit will help you understand every word that is written in the book. This same book actually tells you that all believers are equal parts of one body so that you are just as valuable as every other believer. This same book teaches it’s followers to never judge anyone, and if someone doesn’t believe we should love them and pray for them. The God in this book says that he will Judge both believers and unbelievers fairly.


sac, I'm glad you pitched in, and thanks very much for your thoughtful response. I was on board 100% until we got halfway through paragraph 8. To wit:


Be careful though if you choose this path that same God says you will be held to a higher standard. After all he does promise you his spirit to help you.

Right. And I do hold myself to a higher standard, but not for the reasons that some others do.

In this book there is a man named Jesus.

Correct, undisputed. Jesus is a man, wonderful, stellar example of kindness.

The book says that he is the son of God. If you read his message it will teach you exactly what a follower of the book should do. And this son calls you and me his brothers and sisters.

Right. We are the sons and daughters also...of God.

Okay...carry on, I'm with you so far

So if you want to believe in a God that loved us enough to preserve his word in one book...

Screech!!! go the brakes. Let me off here, please. God did not preserve his word in one book. A bunch of men compiled it, and Jesus was not even on the committee. He'd already been murdered. No? Not gonna stop here? Well, if you must, but know my hand is on the doorhandle and halfway pulled...


..., has always been in contact with us, even to the point that he lets his very spirit live in us,

well, this part is okay...okay,


and who sent his son to teach us the way, and this son actually gave up his life for you, then I think you should pick up the bible.

*door is politely pushed open and wildtimes says* Thanks for your contributions. I'll see you round, and when we both get there. *sacgamer says "wait, one more thing!" wildtimes leans into the open door while standing on terra firma*
Sure, what is it, the one more thing?

The message I bring to you I would not have been able to share with you six months ago. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is real. You can have a changed life; you can become free from the bondage of sin.

Yep, and I have. But Jesus' murder was not the reason for it. I'm more of the mindset that he tried to teach: the tenets of Buddhism.
*closes door and pats roof of car twice, with a warm wave in the rearview*

Sacgamer, I really do think you are one of the most worthwhile folks on these forums.

If you are like me and judging by your post you are me only 5 years ago, you have grown tired of your way of life.

That was an "if"...so, sorry if my post led you to think so. But no, I have not grown tired of my way of life. Very happy with it, actually. Still, I'm glad that over the last 5 years you have come to where you are, an accepting, kind, and good example of Christianity.

Brightest blessings!



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



Screech!!! go the brakes. Let me off here, please. God did not preserve his word in one book.


Not true. It can be shown that the Bible is just not "another book". It's an integrated message system, compiled over thousands of years by different men who never knew each other yet it is an integrated message. And furthermore, it can be proven to be a message that had to have originated outside of our time domain by the inclusion of thousands of detailed prophecies contained in it. It must have originated by an entity that sees the "end from the beginning".

And that's exactly what it declares of itself.









And parts 3 & 4..






posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 

Hey Wildtimes! Glad to help.

As for your two questions, my parents are, respectively, baptised at birth as a catholic, but not practicing, and a...in name muslim who doesn't really follow the religion, but can be "culturally muslim" when necessary. I didn't really have much of a religious upbringing in either direction.

As for the country I lived in, my family moved around a lot during my childhood, and a couple of the countries we lived in majority muslim.
I travel around a lot too, but just right NOW, I am in a majority muslim country.



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by babloyi
 


Okay, so you have experience with others who are muslim, too...that makes you our resident Expert on Islam, for the purposes of this thread!
Thanks for joining in!!

What are the ways in which people are enticed to Islam? Who recruits them?

And...is there the equivalent of a "Pope" in Islam? Who is the biggest kahuna, if you will, and how many deputies does he have? Is there a hierarchy and upward mobility system, like there is in the Anglican and Roman Catholic communites? Where you start out as an altar boy and work your way up to Bishop, and then go for Pope; does Islam do that too?



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by babloyi
 




And...is there the equivalent of a "Pope" in Islam? Who is the biggest kahuna, if you will, and how many deputies does he have? Is there a hierarchy and upward mobility system, like there is in the Anglican and Roman Catholic communites? Where you start out as an altar boy and work your way up to Bishop, and then go for Pope; does Islam do that too?



Don't want to hijack this from babloyi, just wanted to answer the part about the "islamic pope":

No, there is no "hierarchy" in Islam. You can study and be an Imam - but that is a religious leader, in that he leads the prayer - but ANYONE can lead the prayer actually.



As for other things about Islam (which btw IS NOT the "youngest" abrahamic religion, it is in fact the same religion as that of Abraham), I am sure babloyi can fill you in.


edit on 5/1/2012 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 

As far as how people are enticed to Islam, I guess mostly from reading up on it. I don't think there are any major Islamic proselytising organisation like the Hare Krishnas for Hinduism or the Jehova's Witnesses.

And sHuRuLuNi speaks truly, Islam doesn't really have any hierarchy at all. An "imam", as he said, is the title of the person who leads the prayer. You don't need any qualification to do that (although tradition dictates that it be the eldest and most Islamically learned person), and it doesn't give you any special privileges or powers.
An exception is the Ayatollahs for the shi'ites.



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 



Don't want to hijack this from babloyi, just wanted to answer the part about the "islamic pope":

Nono!! You're not hijacking anything! Part of the reason I asked was due to your posts, SHuRuLuNi! I'm so glad to see you here!

If nothing else, at least I've succeeded in engaging some of the more educated and reasonable people here,
and you and everyone else are more than welcome to participate!

Were you born into the faith? Or did you choose it?

I honestly want to know these things. I think that in many cases "Christians" are either indoctrinated from birth and just go with it, or they have endured inordinate pain and suffering, and turn to it.

Again, please feel free to contribute what you like, and thanks for the answer!



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Hello Wildtimes,

No matter what route you take I would like you to consider a few things. First of all things had a beginning; science now calls this a singularity. Science has proven that the universe in its current state appears to both be expanding and dying. All the matter that is, is all the matter that can be. Science tries desperately to explain away God with complex theries that simply don’t match observable science.

So understanding that everything had to have started from a singularity and understanding that you and most everyone accepts that singularity as Devine, then everything came from that singularity.

Now if there were multiple God’s we would still be part of only one singularity. For each God per say would be the foundation of their own singularity. So even if more than one God existed that would be irrelevant because we are all part of the same singularity. Which means we are all part of one creation. Multiple God’s would be multiple creations. But since we are all part of one creation the existence of other creations is meaningless to us.

Seeing that there is only one singularity that we refer to as God, it is logical to assume that there is only one creation. We know for certain we are all part of one creation, and thus know that we are all part of one exact plan. Science and math are our friends on this one. Everything that we see or touch follows an exact plan, if the plan was off by just the tinniest of margins creation would cease to exist. Again pointing to the singularity.

So if we can agree on a singularity and that singularity being divine why can we not agree that just as creation must follow only one plan that there is indeed only one plan. All other plans then cannot be the plan of the singularity but the plan of the created. However the plan of the created simply cannot be the same plan as the creator. So this points back to the singularity, one creator, one plan.

Now if we understand the singularity as God, then we realize that God is both a scientist and mathematician for all that we see is understood by these two observations. Since God has created something based on a perfect plan his creation must indeed follow one perfect plan. To deny that the perfect creator created anything less than a perfect plan is to deny the singularity and what is observable through math and science. A logical creator as this would not leave the creation with an illogical answer. So the logical answer is again one creator one plan.

You see anyone can believe in God, as a matter of fact there is from a worldview almost no debate. Therefore the true debate should be what God’s true plan is. If you continue to seek the truth over the multitude of religions it as if you are trying to build your own God, you could save yourself the effort and just believe what you want. If you look long enough you will make God what you want anyway.

Again anyone can believe in God but it takes faith to believe in one God with one Plan.

I provide this argument not so much that you choose Christ, although I do believe that he is the one true path. And it is more likely that Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism and other religions adopted Christ than it is the bible adopted them. In the event of a singularity there is only one source, not one manuscript from any religion that is compared to Christ can be found that predates Christ. But even if you choose a different path I urge you to have complete faith in that one path that leads to the singularity.

edit on 5-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 07:18 PM
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S+F great thread
I found this site helpful in my own search.
profoundprophecy.com...




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