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Two Britons detained in Afghanistan

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posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 


Captain save America - lol not at all. I am all for holding our government accountable, up to and including throwing their asses out of office and replacing them with people who represent the peple and not speical interest or business.

Secondly I can see how it would come across as save America, just as your opinion constantly comes across as blame America for everything, regardless. What I am pointing out is you dont have all the facts, and just because these 2 people are British national doesn't mean they represent the Queen, the Government of the UK or the US, or any western / allied alphabet agency.

As far as fishy - absolutely.

Is there any reason you cant admit the possibility this may have nothing at all to do with the west and may be coming from a different source?




posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


I have already pointed out that we don't have all the facts in my OP, or maybe the post after that. It's not important where I said it.

And thank you for at least admitting that something might be fishy.

I don't blame America for everything, I just try and go with the logical answer and am always willing to change my opinion if evidence disproving my theory arises.

This is a British saga, not American, but in your defense it is I who called you Captain Save America, so I brought it up and you are certainly entitled to defend yourself against my remark. No harm done.

What I'm waiting for is the official British announcement, if there even is one.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 


A few questions then -

If this is something being run by the west, why would the west interfere with the operation? Why would they detain the Britons and make a news release? The simple fact that occurred suggests the possibility the actions in question weren't sanctioned by any government involved. If its an unofficial mission, again, why would we interfere with it, since the end result would help and not hinder NATO goals?

If these people are part of a rogue element, it says something that the US and UK decided to act to end it, while allowing the media to know about it.

China, Russia and Iran wouldn't be so accommodating.

You are correct we dont have all the info.. Based on the questions I asked though there is enough information present to suggest that NATO / the US / UK may not be involved. The reason for my response, and you will see if it you go back through and read the responses thus far, is other posters aren't allowing for any other possibility.

Because the 2 people captured are British, it MUST be a western operation. By making that assumption, they are ignoring common sense.
edit on 3-1-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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If this is true:

It could be special units ie SAS

AK47s are not standard issue but do get used on ops however if there is a dozen sounds like they didnt get all of them

edit on 3-1-2012 by ROYALMARINE1987 because: Left missing context



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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Ever consider that these "British Nationals" are of Arabic descendant and there working with terrorists?

Western Muslims go to Muslim countries to get training and do deals, then return with their terrorist training to their "home" countries. This the general profile of the Homegrown Terrorist.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


^^^^ Good thinking its plausible.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


To be honest I suspect that's the most likeliest explanation of all but was waiting for a few more details before posting.

If that proves to be the case then no doubt all the usual apologists and self-haters will somehow turn it around or find a conspiracy angle to it so as to apportion blame on the UK or US.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 05:12 PM
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Wouldn't be the first time MI6 got caught red-handed aiding "terrorists". MI6, Mossad, CIA, all have been caught masquerading as a terrorist cell, or caught ferrying arms to them.

Remember the recent case of an American CIA agent, Raymond Davis, who shot and killed 2 Pakistani police?:
Accused American's CIA ties cause stir in Pakistan
American who sparked diplomatic crisis over Lahore shooting was CIA spy

Or the recent "Nukegate" - Swiss government determined that the "Al Qaeda Khan Network" was really just made up of Western suppliers working with CIA and MI6; (Link)
More on the sordid Nukegate affair here.

British MI6 disguised as Hizb ut Tahrir in Pakistan

Sources claims American and British agents, infiltrating Pakistani institutions, tried to create some “characters,” which were later going to be singled out as proof of complicity between Pakistan forces and militant and threat to country’s nuclear arsenal. They have failed for now, said the sources.


UK's MI6 financing terror attacks in Pakistan

Ashraf Javed

LAHORE – The UK’s top intelligence agency, MI6, financed terror attacks in Pakistan through Al-Qaeda operative by paying him at least $100,000 per month (£ 63,500), it has been reliably learnt.


BBC News: 'Al-Qaeda assassin worked for MI6', secret cables claim

Adil Hadi al Jazairi Bin Hamlili was detained at Guantanamo Bay between 2003 and last year.

The Guardian claims to have seen secret Wikileaks files in which he is described as an al-Qaeda "assassin".

Other Wikileaks files suggest a mosque in north London served as a "haven" for Islamic extremists.

According to the files, 35 men held at Guantanamo Bay had gone to fight against Western forces in Afghanistan after being indoctrinated in Britain. The US documents identify two preachers at the Finsbury Park Mosque - Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada - as key recruiters.


FOX News: Loftus: London bombing mastermind an MI6 agent

Former Justice Dept. prosecutor John Loftus claims alleged London bombing mastermind Haroon Rashid Aswat is a "double agent" who "works for the MI6".


Former MI5 officer David Shayler has alleged, and French intel sources have corroborated, that the MI6 paid a Libyan al-Qa'ida cell £100,000 in 1995 to assassinate colonel Qaddafi.

There are numerous examples of CIA, Mossad, and MI6 agents getting caught posing as or aiding terrorists and conducting false-flag ops against our countries. This is how they are keeping the 'war on terror' alive.
edit on 3-1-2012 by Blackmarketeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
Is this incident both of you speak of factual?

I'm not doubting you, it's just I never came across any convincing evidence.

Did the mainstream admit this at all? Not that it would be more believable if the mainstream said it too.



The incident they speak of kind of happened, but they are spinning it and adding details which didn't happen in order to try and paint a very different picture.

In a nutshell, the two British soldiers involved were actually working with a section of the Iraqi police, but in Basra many police were corrupt and working for the Shia cleric who was causing trouble. The soldiers were pulled over by these corrupt officers and brought into custody and despite British attempts to negotiate their release, the Police involved refused, leading to the decision to bust them out as there was fear they would be handed over to insurgents.

There is actually a member on ATS who knows the guys/unit involved which is where I am getting my info from, unfortunately I cannot remember who it is. I am thinking Paddyinf, but I am not certain on that as this was a few years ago.

So, always bear in mind (especially on ATS) that there are those who will post fiction as fact in order to further their agenda.


Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Two Brits get caught and you want to blame Russia, China, and Pakistan.

What's up with that.

I'm going to blame Mossad then


Two British nationals get caught and you want to blame the UK Government?

What's up with that?

Naturally, you are aware of the many US, UK and other Western "nationals" who end up in Pakistan or Afghan fighting for the insurgencies? These "nationals" are usually of Pakistani, Arabic or other "islamic" origin, or sometimes converts.

That is what I think these "nationals" are and is the most likely explantion rather than a convuluted conspiracy where Western agents stir up trouble for an unknown reason, even while those very same Western powers are desperate to get out of Afghan. The "conspiracy" makes no sense.

reply to post by Aeons
 


Exactly, but there isn't any fun in that, is there? What on earth would ATS do without being able to spin something totally out of whack in order to try and validate their skewed world view?



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 05:25 PM
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But just to add
It's only been stated that these are British nationals
Now I'm sure we are all aware of British Muslim nationionals going to stan to fight against the coalition
Just sayin
But as someone's already said - the serials are removed to make the weapon untracible
Including nation of manufacture !
Now say china ( 1 of the five permenant members of the UN security council ) was getting weapons into Afghan through its own border ( not really covered by the coalition becouse china wouldn't allow it ) or through Pakistan ?
Or perhaps tptb in Russia are getting their own back ?
Hey someone said - admit it maybe just something fishy is going on
Most of the weapons I've encountered were still stamped up or had no stamp at all - replicas or fakes manufactured by admittedly very skilled weapon smiths
But something I've never encountered in afghanistan was the ability to manufacture the percussion cap of a round of ammunition - which is quite an intricate little thing
Now the 7.62 short round used by the ak-47 is significantly shorter in overall length of the NATO 7.62 round
So where they getting all this ammo from ?
Afghanistan has a lot going on - hands up if you've looked into chinas ties with AQ or the Taliban - or what it's got going on there , now and in the past .............that's fishy



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 05:38 PM
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Sorry it should also be mention that a weapon in particular the ak is easily tracings to its nation due to many nations that produce the ak add their own little ....... Something - a Russian ak is slightly different to a Chinese ak as is slightly different to an eastern Europe ak and then ultimately the metallurgy of the weapon will be a massive indicator as well
Makes you think about what's going on elsewhere in a slightly different light
Hey look into unrestricted warfare and then chuck that in the mix
THAT'S FISHY



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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Perhaps they should detain the weapons contractors that sell weapons to the enemy?



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 06:06 PM
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Sorry I feel I must apologise for my many typing errors
I was bouncing around in the back of a vehicle



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 06:26 PM
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Afghanistan is teaming with mercenaries, and drug runners, being just 30 simple AK 's, i suspect this is weapons for drug runners, and is a side earner gone wrong for a couple of the many many British mercenaries currently operating all over Afghanistan.

I'm afraid these 2 clumsy guys are on there own now, and they know it...No one will claim them, and this story won't exist in 12 hours.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by TheMaverick
 


That's probably the best theory I've heard so far


I thank you for sharing, I bet you're right.

Of course there is always the chance that it was something else, but I would bet on your theory.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by TheMaverick
 


That's a very good point
Ahh the good old British merc
One of their best exports



posted on Jan, 4 2012 @ 12:12 AM
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Why rub out the serial number, you can buy an AK in the middle east like you buy bread in the supermarket.

The reason they have the S/N rubbed out is because of where they came from and for what they where going to be used.

Iraq police / armed forces selling stock to militia / Taliban.

Intelligence services doing what they do best, supplying its own enemy with arms.

Maybe an attack from "Iranian" forces (false flag) is on the cards for this month, forces who where to use AK's without serial numbers so theres no trace.

Why the fuss about the serial numbers if they're not from Iraqi government stock..

The two Brits are secondary to the story, S.I.S or S.A.S maybe even just two dumb ex squaddies (living their own particular James Bond / Rambo dream) who are being paid by intelligence to a job because their expendable.
edit on 4-1-2012 by andy1972 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2012 @ 02:25 AM
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Originally posted by v1rtu0s0
Perhaps they should detain the weapons contractors that sell weapons to the enemy?



Should we then detain all beer manufacturers and car manufacturers because idiot drinks, drives and kills someone?

All thats left is a persons responsibility and accountability. Who is to say the weapons were sold lawfully, and the people who bought them didnt transfer them on to a third party?



posted on Jan, 4 2012 @ 02:37 AM
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I think it's fast & furious II

The Mexican Cartels are selling the evidence !


Now what are they doing to me ?



posted on Jan, 4 2012 @ 02:48 AM
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Originally posted by Truth4Thought
Those sneaky buggers. This must be some sort of violation, these guys just got caught with the egg in their face. The Brits are going to have a lot of explaining to do. Especially on how they accuse other countries of meddling.


The British government have a lot of explaining not the British people, don’t include me.
I wonder if it’s anything to do with the IRA..
Whatever the reasons there not good, and they should be treated like terrorists.



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