when do you call someone Anti-American?

reply to post by jjf3rd77


which ones......that is kind of "general"........or is that just common knowledge.....if so what do you think is the source of that common knowledge ¿?¿?¿?¿?

First you have to define what an American is and that isn't an easy task. Being a unique country in that we are a free society that is supposed to treat any and all as equals, through our history have had many times where we have failed to live up to those lofty ideas. We are supposed to be the land of opportunity and second chances. When the world cries for help, we have always ultimately intervened. When the corrupt push for power we have always pushed back.

Now we have become a second rate nation enslaved to corporate powers, worshiping at the altars of the wealthy. Not caring about anyone or anything as long as it gives us the advantage personally. Invading other nations at will to serve our own insatiable gluttony. We have lost our morality, we have lost our dignity and we have lost our own sense of community to pursue lifestyles we can't afford. We have no true art forms, almost all the literature, film and music industries have been turned from an art form and means of expression into this unhealthy beast that cares only about how much money it can make. We produce nothing of quality and that includes our own foul mouthed, disrespectful and selfish children. Children that we stop just long enough to shove a handful of all better pills down their throat so that we don't have to deal with raising them.

In my view there is no one group that is Anti-American. We have turned into a nation full of Anti-Americans and we sold our future and promise for a handful of shiny trinkets.

Originally posted by newyorkee
I am in the mood to talk about something absolutely taboo in my country.....USA.....the subject of anti- Americanism.....the whole if you don't like it leave mentality....the whole either your with me or against me thing....

I have had more than my fair share in this life...I don't know why I always attract those people.....they seem to just pick up on the fact I will argue against 911 common thought.....I will never defend the USA in subjects of Vietnam....Guantanamo......Abu grade...etc.....I steer clear of them since I am sincerely tired of it all....but that doesn't mean I will submit to the mass Nationalism in its extreme form in the US as of late...

Am I anti anything if I truly just believe what I do independently from what political point of view I have about the US....like if I am anti war....does that make me anti American because I might not side with pro war people...does that automatically mean I am anti military.....why ?¿?¿?¿?

With only the brief description provided in your post I don't see how anyone who has an honest understanding of what being an American truly means could accuse you of being anti American.

If you disagree with the current geo-political policies of the U.S. in regards to the deployment of the military to enact American foreign policy, it is absolutely your right and it is unfortunate that you feel as though you cannot freely voice your opinion on the matter among the company you keep.

If I may I would share that I am most likely on the opposite end of the spectrum concerning my political beliefs and have few problems sharing worldviews with the predominant liberal mindset that the majority of people in my regional/social circles embrace.

Without having a clue about your circumstance, remember that consideration of others opinions with the same respect that you expect for your own goes a long way towards polite discourse.

In my opinion, examples of crossing the line are those who wish harm to their fellow Americans for twisted ideologies they don't understand, cheer-leading for economic collapse, promoting unnecessarily civil unrest to fulfill personal inadequacies or, my favorite, twisting facts to vilify the actions of the U.S. government while turning a blind eye to legitimate concerns involving other nations with the caveat that "somebody needs to put the U.S. in its place"

Unfortunately some people have trouble distinguishing between supporting the individual men and woman of the armed forces and national policy.

In fairness, I would remind some of the younger folks reading along that American society suffers from a kind of collective guilt over turning a blind eye to the shameful treatment many of the returning Vietnam veterans were subjected to by a vocal minority of the anti-war protesters in the 60's and 70's and can be somewhat hypersensitive on the subject.

Hope this helps and remember, the flag belongs to us all...

Originally posted by newyorkee
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

which ones......that is kind of "general"........or is that just common knowledge.....if so what do you think is the source of that common knowledge ¿?¿?¿?¿?

Well these people usually like to defend the backwards countries in the Middle East. Whereas the many Middle Eastern countries hate America to death and it would be considered a crime to defend or support American interests AT ALL!!!!! The crimes there usually = death or very severe punishments for treason!

If you don't know which countries consist of the Middle East I suggest you go back to History class or at least do a Google/Wikipedia search.

Originally posted by Drunkenparrot

In my opinion, examples of crossing the line are those who wish harm to their fellow Americans for twisted ideologies they don't understand, cheer-leading for economic collapse, promoting unnecessarily civil unrest to fulfill personal inadequacies or, my favorite, twisting facts to vilify the actions of the U.S. government while turning a blind eye to legitimate concerns involving other nations with the caveat that "somebody needs to put the U.S. in its place"

I couldn't agree more and glad someone with some practical sense realizes that some of these people are just plain nuts. I left the American Flag Gif up because I just don't see enough patriotism these days. I guess I miss it, but now there be trolls.

Anti-Constitution = Anti-American in my book

reply to post by Drunkenparrot


"If you disagree with the current geo-political policies of the U.S. in regards to the deployment of the military to enact American foreign policy, it is absolutely your right and it is unfortunate that you feel as though you cannot freely voice your opinion on the matter among the company you keep."

------yes....I have at times felt threatened for disagreeing with people....it gets out of hand sometimes....I have lost some good friends to bad conversations......I hate that

reply to post by jjf3rd77


I just wanted you to clarify your all encompassing statement since it could be construed you are generalizing to push your idea of how it works..,....I am not one to nitpick about grammar but I will about broad statements that are end all rule of truth without a valid argument to begin with....not that you don't have one.....but it is not actually stated...just implied

ps
backwards countries in the Middle East = ?¿?¿?¿ which, there are more than a couple....and what constitutes backwards......

reply to post by jjf3rd77


I'm sorry if I seem like I am pushing or singling you out...it's just this is the mentality I am talking about....again
If you don't like the way I am going about it...I apologize....you don't have to talk to me or anymore about this if you don't want to.....obviously.....but

If I disagree with going there to attack them even if they are "backwards" or don't defend MY countries interests....am I anti-American in your book?

thank you all for your time and patience in reading and posting here.....I know this is a "tired" subject

reply to post by newyorkee


Yes my idea about how it works is based on the best interests of America. If you are against these interests you are pretty much anti american because you are going against america. Well, you have free speech and you can say anything you want. When you actively support and push these ideas that are against Americas best and current interests that is considered anti american. This can be done by joining groups or spouting terrorist rhetoric as stated above. Its not that hard to figure out and I hope this is absolutely clear to you because it cannot be clearer

reply to post by jjf3rd77


ok....valid enough....I accept that....but what if you are just arguing for HUMAN prosperity.....not excluding the USA....but not limiting it to us either....if your personal doctrine is one of world prosperity over all, like opting for the survival of the species over a single race for example.....the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few ?¿?¿ is that really anti american....

just because you put your species over your nation....without excluding it or denying it...but without favoring it unquestionably..

mind you I am being sincere here....no BS or trolling....this is just really starting to bother me if I don't speak to it

Originally posted by newyorkee
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

If I disagree with going there to attack them even if they are "backwards" or don't defend MY countries interests....am I anti-American in your book?

NO you have the freedom to say and believe anything you want here...in America. That's the difference most people don't understand. Many people feel that the terrorists in the Middle East have a slight disadvantage and are a little worse than the religious right wing of this country. The high majority or even all of the countries in the Middle East NEED to implement Islam in their daily lives or it's against their own laws!!!! That's not freedom of religion now is it? While the majority of Christians here would love for you to convert, only a handful will try to force you onto it. And only one in recent years used terrorist actions to justify their message. This isn't slightly worse than the Religious right wingers. I am just telling you the facts here about how twisted some of the arguments between the right and left get over anti-american "racism" and

Originally posted by newyorkee
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

ok....valid enough....I accept that....but what if you are just arguing for HUMAN prosperity.....not excluding the USA....but not limiting it to us either....if your personal doctrine is one of world prosperity over all, like opting for the survival of the species over a single race for example.....the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few ?¿?¿ is that really anti american....

mind you I am being sincere here....no BS or trolling....this is just really starting to bother me if I don't speak to it

I don't really understand this question. All of us aren't American, and certainly not all us are fighting for the prosperity of the human species. Maybe only a handful of rich philanthropists. That doesn't usually come up except in debates at the UN and Environmental debates too. I don't feel we are at the level of understanding yet, to think about what's best for the human species. We are still way too divided for that to even take shape in our lifetimes. Even groups that say, they are working towards a better tomorrow for all humanity or whatnot will still have some sort of personal agenda alongside it. So I don't think your question makes sense here. Society doesn't equal America. They are two difference concepts. Sometimes America works for the interests of society, and sometimes it doesn't. Same with everyone else.

ok never mind....thanks for trying.....I appreciate you taking the time...

Originally posted by newyorkee
ok never mind....thanks for trying.....I appreciate you taking the time...

Are you confused? I think I answered your question as best as I can. Don't run away. Try to explain yourself or at least agree/disagree with my statements.

Ok thanks for trying? Nevermind... What kind of debate is this? Sorry I am being sort of aggressive, because now your acting like the troll. It seems like you just read my first sentence, "I don't understand this question." and then replied. I'm just interested in where you were trying to go with this that's all??

When every attempt to bring our nation back to economic health is thwarted and derailed intentionally.
When every attempt to restore say GM is thwarted and met with personal attacks and character assassinations.
When those that would rather see a foreign company excel over that of an American company!
When those who are defending freedom abroad get labeled as "Baby Killers" and terrorists!
When an entire party vows to make a POTUS a "1 term POTUS" while offering no solutions on how to restore our nation back to economic health!
When the rights of corporations supercede that of the populous!
When someone is more concerned about the liberty of some douchewaded corporations over that of their own!
When American citizens abroad who have turned their back on the nation are killed in drone strikes and defend the rights of the dead and not those that he intended to cause harm to.
When banks got a bailout and no one said yap about that but have the audacity to black out when an American company who employs Americans in America!
Those who wish to deny a non Christian their right to worship in a manner of their own choosing and to deny them the right to worship in the house of their own choosing.
Those who vow to never give the nation a success story all to see the opposition fail.
Those who will sell their fellow Americans to secure a new multi million dollar contract!

As an American, you're free to have any position you want, but when you attempt to make a law legislating that your position as the only position to have under the penatly of X, that is when you're no longer an American but a boot heel licking pile of excrement.

When you find any portion of the Bill of Rights antiquated to the point of being a threat and you attempt limit those liberties, you're off the team.

Derek

I think you are anti-American if you want to see the nation fail. The confusion comes when someone mistakenly equates the governmental and or financial systems with the nation.

America is it's citizens, not it's monolithic systems, which have failed the nation and become a threat to us all.

In wanting to see those systems reformed you fall squarely in the camp of pro-American, as such reform would serve the principles of the nation as a whole.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


this is just turning into a you VS me thing....not really a debate....I can't clarify my question any more than you your answer....we will just repeat ourselves....over and over in different ways until one of us snaps....please don't call me a troll...I have been polite....and I have a bad temper with these sort of comments...I understand that and have to just leave it at that.....I don't want a debate....I want a conversation without defensiveness...without an agenda....so again...thanks for your time but we aren't going to help each other grow here....I will just accept that I will always have this be said to me.....I don't think I am anti American....but I can't convince someone else I am or am not based on the "opposition" of my views.....I hate war....not Americans in war...I hate empire...not the American empire....I hate nationalism....not my nation

thank you anyways.....

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

When every attempt to bring our nation back to economic health is thwarted and derailed intentionally.
When every attempt to restore say GM is thwarted and met with personal attacks and character assassinations.

When the rights of corporations supercede that of the populous!
When someone is more concerned about the liberty of some douchewaded corporations over that of their own!

Those who wish to deny a non Christian their right to worship in a manner of their own choosing and to deny them the right to worship in the house of their own choosing.

Those who will sell their fellow Americans to secure a new multi million dollar contract!

thank you....I agree man....its nuts.....leads me to dark places.....I hate this......