Jesus Christ is the son of the one and only God, our creator.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

To offer ourselves means that we realize that we are not in charge, we offer everything about us, including our intellect and worldview.

That's not I was thinking and I really don't see how any of that has to do with what I was talking about. I think you are probably one of the 'let go and let god' crowd.
I was talking about what it takes to be acceptable as a sacrifice, which is to be holy. This would involve not defiling yourself by getting involved in a sinful lifestyle but to have a life that God would approve of.
Jesus will be our mentor in this as he promised, and we can under his guidance have a peace of mind but our eternal rest awaits us in the next life after this one is over.

How do you suppose to follow Christ if you don't give yourself up to him? What do you think the meaning of the cross is? Why do you think Christ prayed, father take this cup from me, not my will but yours?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

I was talking about what it takes to be acceptable as a sacrifice, which is to be holy. This would involve not defiling yourself by getting involved in a sinful lifestyle but to have a life that God would approve of.
Jesus will be our mentor in this as he promised, and we can under his guidance have a peace of mind but our eternal rest awaits us in the next life after this one is over.

Which is only our reasonable service.

And Jesus is more than a mentor, He is Lord. He is Lord of my life and everything about me. If He is only the teacher, then He would not have come to die for us. Was the atonement for His benefit alone? If it is for Him, then perhaps you are not a Christan for not understanding that.

Are you trying to tell us all here that Jesus is nothing more than an avatar for God and He only teaches?

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

To offer ourselves means that we realize that we are not in charge, we offer everything about us, including our intellect and worldview.

That's not I was thinking and I really don't see how any of that has to do with what I was talking about. I think you are probably one of the 'let go and let god' crowd.
I was talking about what it takes to be acceptable as a sacrifice, which is to be holy. This would involve not defiling yourself by getting involved in a sinful lifestyle but to have a life that God would approve of.
Jesus will be our mentor in this as he promised, and we can under his guidance have a peace of mind but our eternal rest awaits us in the next life after this one is over.

How do you suppose to follow Christ if you don't give yourself up to him? What do you think the meaning of the cross is? Why do you think Christ prayed, father take this cup from me, not my will but yours?

And what would you consider a sinful lifestyle? That would be interesting to hear.

reply to post by sacgamer25

How do you suppose to follow Christ if you don't give yourself up to him?

That would be understood when you have a mentor take you on as a disciple. The word, disciple, being connected to the word, discipline.

What do you think the meaning of the cross is?

Not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean, What is the significance of the cross for our salvation? Jesus's death was a necessary thing, apparently, and it was a public form of execution where there would be no doubt in anyone's mind that he did in fact die. Jesus represented himself as the I Am and was standing in the place of YHWH, being the bearer of the name of God, so represented the death of the old name of God and what that represented in aspects such as the Law. Jesus was then raised from the dead, again after enough time had passed where it would have been obvious to anyone that he had in fact been dead. Jesus later returned and showed himself to his disciples and made it clear to them that he had gone to his Father and had received the power that he had been expecting to be granted.

Why do you think Christ prayed, father take this cup from me, not my will but yours?

I think this was supposed to demonstrate that Jesus subjugated his own will to the Father, while John does it a different way where it has Jesus saying, 'For this purpose I have come here.' meaning his will was in conformity with the Father's.

reply to post by WarminIndy

Was the atonement for His benefit alone?

No.

If it is for Him, then perhaps you are not a Christan for not understanding that.

I think you may be of the 'salvation through correct theology' crowd.

Are you trying to tell us all here that Jesus is nothing more than an avatar for God and He only teaches?

Did I skip something? What is it that you think I am leaving out? Jesus is in heaven and is basically the temple in heaven and will be our judgement. I'm not sure how that works exactly but if you can think of Jesus as a place, then that is our place of judgment. Also Jesus is the Christ and this is the source for the Christ in you spirit which enables us to be like Christ. None of this would work without him so it is not some sort of insignificant role that Jesus is relegated to.
If you have a problem with me not creating some sort of crazy transactional scheme about payment for sins, there is a reason for that and it is because, guess what, God is able to forgive sins, look it up, it's in there, while the other blood for sin thing is not.

reply to post by WarminIndy

And what would you consider a sinful lifestyle? That would be interesting to hear.

The other day I was flipping through the channels on my TV and I ran across the last two minutes of the apparently last episode of Sopranos. I knew that because I had heard about it on a radio show back then it originally aired, the wives of these mobsters were in a parking garage and they were looking at each other's cars and one says she went ahead and bought a Porsche. Meanwhile Tony Soprano is bleeding to death from gunshot woulds probably from a turf war or something. The moral is that even though they were supposed to be good Catholics, they allowed their consciences to die down enough to enjoy ill gotten gain.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

I think you may be of the 'salvation through correct theology' crowd.

You mean "orthodoxy brings orthopraxy". No, I am not a Fundamentalist of Reform Theology. Jesus is not a place, Jesus is a person.

If you have a problem with me not creating some sort of crazy transactional scheme about payment for sins, there is a reason for that and it is because, guess what, God is able to forgive sins, look it up, it's in there, while the other blood for sin thing is not.

edit on 3-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

1 Corinthians 6: 19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

And

1 Corinthians 7:19Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 20Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called. 21Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. 22For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. 23Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. 24Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.

What was the transactional scheme you were referring to? Are we not bought with a price, as the Bible says we are?

1 John 4:13-21 13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.

Abiding in us and we in Him. I have confessed that Jesus is the Son of God, therefore God abides in me.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

And what would you consider a sinful lifestyle? That would be interesting to hear.

The other day I was flipping through the channels on my TV and I ran across the last two minutes of the apparently last episode of Sopranos. I knew that because I had heard about it on a radio show back then it originally aired, the wives of these mobsters were in a parking garage and they were looking at each other's cars and one says she went ahead and bought a Porsche. Meanwhile Tony Soprano is bleeding to death from gunshot woulds probably from a turf war or something. The moral is that even though they were supposed to be good Catholics, they allowed their consciences to die down enough to enjoy ill gotten gain.

Could it be that they never knew God to begin with? They were characters on a TV show and were not real, but I understand what you are trying to compare.

A sinful lifestyle is what all people live in, but through the Blood of Christ as payment for that, and those who have received that atonement, abide in Christ, and Christ in him.

Hebrews 9:18Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. 23It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

reply to post by WarminIndy

A sinful lifestyle is what all people live in, but through the Blood of Christ as payment for that, and those who have received that atonement, abide in Christ, and Christ in him.

This is a really bad philosophy in my opinion and is not Bible based but just an invention which is a really dangerous way to live life, thinking what you do does not matter and it is all paid for when nothing could be further from the truth.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Was the atonement for His benefit alone?

No.

If it is for Him, then perhaps you are not a Christan for not understanding that.

I think you may be of the 'salvation through correct theology' crowd.

Are you trying to tell us all here that Jesus is nothing more than an avatar for God and He only teaches?

Did I skip something? What is it that you think I am leaving out? Jesus is in heaven and is basically the temple in heaven and will be our judgement. I'm not sure how that works exactly but if you can think of Jesus as a place, then that is our place of judgment. Also Jesus is the Christ and this is the source for the Christ in you spirit which enables us to be like Christ. None of this would work without him so it is not some sort of insignificant role that Jesus is relegated to.
If you have a problem with me not creating some sort of crazy transactional scheme about payment for sins, there is a reason for that and it is because, guess what, God is able to forgive sins, look it up, it's in there, while the other blood for sin thing is not.

edit on 3-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

The covenant was sealed by his blood. The New Covenant is Grace, the forgiveness of sins, and the Holy Spirit. I’m not sure you are understanding what the New Covenant is.

I don’t know how else to say this but I believe that I must say something. Your complete refusal to accept the completeness and authority of all the books in the bible is keeping you from a full understanding of the promise that Christ has for you. If you don’t have faith that God preserved the words inspired by the Holy Spirit, written by men how do expect to understand the gift you have been given. If you don’t understand the gift how do expect to water it?

Don’t you see that the Holy Spirit is the Mustard Seed that God has given you for believing in him? You need to water it so that others will pearch on your branches. I know you want to live a life worthy of Christ and something tells me you live a life better than most who call themselves Christians, but you have rejected much of the good news. By denying parts of the bible you are in essence denying the Holy Spirit and the very power of God. Why would a loving God make this so complicated? The answer is he didn’t.

Trust me I understand that the church has completely perverted the word of God, but the local church is so far from the bible you can’t judge each book of the bible based on the way the church has interpreted it. Try to have faith that God preserved his word for you and let the Holy Spirit interpret the words. If you can have the faith to do this you will see that you need all the pieces of the puzzle and you currently are refusing so many pieces that you can’t see the full picture.

I will make a promise to you. I could not guide you in this way if the Holy Spirit was not guiding me. There is only one teacher, and the teacher is Christ. The Holy Spirit is working through me now to help you. I know that God has bigger plans for you, have the faith to trust your brother. I know you have followed my posts and by now you know that I am not like the ones who call themselves Christians and are not. You can choose to accept this or you can choose to continue to search. The answer is right in front of you, have the faith to accept it.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

A sinful lifestyle is what all people live in, but through the Blood of Christ as payment for that, and those who have received that atonement, abide in Christ, and Christ in him.

This is a really bad philosophy in my opinion and is not Bible based but just an invention which is a really dangerous way to live life, thinking what you do does not matter and it is all paid for when nothing could be further from the truth.

edit on 3-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

You must accept the gift of forgiveness which is Grace. Stop letting those who call themselves Christians who are not keep you from understanding the truth. We are all born sinners; it is because of this sin that we have been spiritually separated from the father. The new covenant is Grace, forgiveness of sins. Once you have accepted the gift of Grace water your faith with the word and prayer. You will receive the Holy Spirit in a way that is unmistakable.

If anyone tells you that you can continue to willfully sin after receiving the Holy Spirit they have been deceived. What you don’t understand is that the new life, being born again starts with Grace. If you don’t accept that you are forgiven you can’t accept God into your heart. You remain a believer but separated from the promise.

Let me plead with you to read my thread here. www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you can have the faith that the Holy Spirit is trying to help you read this thread with an open heart. The Holy Spirit has revealed the philosophy of the Son through me. There is so much more than this thread but this I believe is the start.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Then believe that I am a mentor. I have no reason to lie to you. I am not like those who call themselves Christians who don't follow Christ.

The bible says the whole world will be fooled and it has been.

The bible says that the remnant of the church will remain. That remnant is the bible, the very word of God. The very foundation of the church, which is in us.

reply to post by sacgamer25

That remnant is the bible, the very word of God.

So you are advocating blind fanaticism?
To me, the word of God was Paul having a vision of the risen Christ.
From that moment on, there is a degradation, including opposing books written to contradict Paul, and it ends up in the Bible. If you want to just ignore that then have a good time in your little world.
Let me know what you think I am missing out on by having that view because I don't feel like I am.
Life is complicated, the universe is complicated, religion and truth and heaven, and all those things, are also complicated, that is just the way things are and it is not from me making it that way. You can have a theology that makes you feel good but it is an invention. That is simple, the delusion that God cooked up this pablum for you and just open your mouth. Jesus said, take my yoke. That is not telling you to lay down and take a nap, it means when things are all over and done, then we can rest.

Originally posted by TheTruthCqer
Until you accept him as your savior you will not awaken to the reality of the spiritual warfare which has been going on since the times of Adam and Eve.

any questions?

edit on 2-1-2012 by TheTruthCqer because: (no reason given)

Well said!!!
2nd line.

reply to post by dthwraith


People warfare.
Cain killing Able, was that spiritual warfare, or physical warfare?
I'm pretty sure Able ended up dead, that is a little more than a spiritual battle.
That is real and material, something you can see and touch and smell.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

That remnant is the bible, the very word of God.

So you are advocating blind fanaticism?
To me, the word of God was Paul having a vision of the risen Christ.
From that moment on, there is a degradation, including opposing books written to contradict Paul, and it ends up in the Bible. If you want to just ignore that then have a good time in your little world.
Let me know what you think I am missing out on by having that view because I don't feel like I am.
Life is complicated, the universe is complicated, religion and truth and heaven, and all those things, are also complicated, that is just the way things are and it is not from me making it that way. You can have a theology that makes you feel good but it is an invention. That is simple, the delusion that God cooked up this pablum for you and just open your mouth. Jesus said, take my yoke. That is not telling you to lay down and take a nap, it means when things are all over and done, then we can rest.

I would like to know what verses from other books do you believe contradict other scripture? Personally I have found no contradictions.

As for taking his yoke, I indeed have in several ways. First before the Holy Spirit was real in my life I told God that I knew that I had separated myself from him through sin. I prayed to my father that he show me a better way. I told him if there was no better way and my sins would prevent me from reaching heaven that I was ready to go to hell now. That I might stop sinning and fighting against him.

It was after a couple of years of listening to, reading, and researching the bible that God’s Grace came upon me. From that moment forward I have been inspired to understand the word of God. I can’t stop listening on CD, talking to my children. You see now that I have received this gift from God it is my desire to perfect my walk, or at least come as close to Christ’s walk as any man can. You see again I have picked up my Yolk as I attempt to take the plank out of my own eye, and learn the word to something close to memorization.

If it is God’s will for me to carry out my plan one day I hope to open my home as a church. After that I would like to travel and spread the good news. I will be doing this at my own expense not at the expense of other believers. For what has been given to me freely, freely I must give. I will not allow anything to hinder the message just as Paul commanded of the church. If God willing this is where I will carry my yolk to next.

I have come to realize that the bible does provide for Church leaders to receive an income from those they teach, but Paul strongly recommends that one work with their hands and not become a burden to the church by using this authority. Paul also states that anyone who accepts payment has chosen to do this by their will. For if anyone was called by God they would understand why Paul refuses this right. For the same reason I would refuse this right.

Please understand that I am not claiming to be anything like Paul, for he was blameless under the law something that I certainly am not. If I am indeed a servant of God, like I believe, I consider myself least in the kingdom of heaven. Time will tell as I let the Holy Spirit guide me to do whatever is God’s will for me.

When I say I am at rest and at peace it is because I have been freed from my slavery to sin. God indeed has a better way and to his Glory he has shown me the way, and filled me with the Holy Spirit that he promised. The bible says that anyone who follows the path I intend to follow will be persecuted, and I am ready to do the will of my father even if that means physical persecution. My faith is complete.

reply to post by sacgamer25

I would like to know what verses from other books do you believe contradict other scripture?

One example would be Paul holding the coats of the men who stoned Stephen. That is in Acts but it is obviously made up and Paul was not there.
The council in Jerusalem to discuss circumcision and then coming up with a set of rules that Paul accepted, never happened.
Paul learning at the feet of Gamaliel, that never happened.
Paul persecuting the church in a physical sort of way, never happened, he only engaged them in debates, not beat them with sticks or something.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

I would like to know what verses from other books do you believe contradict other scripture?

One example would be Paul holding the coats of the men who stoned Stephen. That is in Acts but it is obviously made up and Paul was not there.
The council in Jerusalem to discuss circumcision and then coming up with a set of rules that Paul accepted, never happened.
Paul learning at the feet of Gamaliel, that never happened.
Paul persecuting the church in a physical sort of way, never happened, he only engaged them in debates, not beat them with sticks or something.

Like I said in the other thread doing good is more important than agreeing on every verse in the bible. So as to not cause conflict and that we may remain loving brothers, I think we can fully accept that we have two different opinions. I do respect your views and I know that what you do is out of love and respect for Christ. I hope that you realize that although we disagree my motives are also out of love and respect for Christ. One day we will all know the truth let’s pray that we find it together.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Like I said earlier, if I had a problem with you, you would know it, I don't sit around holding secret grudges.