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Overcoming the Error of the Mystery Schools - See it Clearly

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posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


I wanted to make this into a new thread for the religion section to foster discussion of the mystery schools. The following comes from a response I made in another thread regarding this subject.


Following his conversion to Christianity, C. S. Lewis believed that the resurrection of Jesus belonged in this category of myths, with the additional property of having actually happened: "If God chooses to be mythopoeic—and is not the sky itself a myth—shall we refuse to be mythopathic?"


I would like to point out a simple fact. All archetypal Christian events were played out in the minds of men before the culminating events of Christ's death, burial and resurrection took place. Why is this true? What purpose did the mystery schools serve? The answer to this is more than obvious when you fill in the excluded middle.

There are two forces at work in the minds of men for the last 6000 years. One force is there as a balance against the second. Both have a motive and a purpose in the larger scope and sequence of the overall destiny of men. The Dead Sea Scrolls defines this in detail. Consider the motive of the powers and principalities that are eager to take God's great work in man away from Him. Further, consider the artifacts from the pre-flood history that we possess, and more importantly, the ones that were lost in the library of Alexandria. God has foreknowledge and will always release his prophetic words to man. These words are then counterfeited and mimicked. This is the motivation of the powers who are against God's work with the destiny and character of man. The central story of man can be seen clearly within this framework. Knowing this first, we see the other parts clearly. The mystery schools were a way to refocus man's mind away from God. This, then, becomes the central story of man: The struggle to take truth from error.

Our destiny is to defeat error by our own work, guided by God in the process. The lives we live over the centuries is a development of sentience. It is a struggle to overcome an enemy by the leading of God through the 3 ages of history.

Consider this text from the DSS.


13. A text belonging to the Instructor, who is to enlighten and teach all the Sons of Light about the character and fate of humankind:
14. all their spiritual varieties with accompanying signs, all their deeds generation by generation, and their visitation for afflictions together with
15. eras of peace. All that is now and ever shall be originates with the God of knowledge. Before things come to be, He has ordered all their designs,
16. so that when they do come to exist—at their appointed times as ordained by His glorious plan—they fulfill their destiny, a destiny impossible to change.


Understand the central story and then divide the light from the darkness. Only Christ actually accomplished the rising part of the overall revelation. The counterfeiter tried to copy the revelation as a way to divert man away from the central story. It failed. We are now at the end of this saga of mankind and we see the fruit of what Christ accomplished. The thread of truth runs clearly from one end of history to the other. Along the way, the counterfeit message failed at every step. This is the clear attempt to divert the destiny of God's overarching plan. We see this played out in our own movies and dramas of today. Knowing the excluded middle fills in the rest by motive. See it clearly by comparison from the Dead Sea Scrolls.


23. Until now the spirits of truth and perversity have contended within the human heart.
24. All people walk in both wisdom and foolishness. As is a person’s endowment of truth and righteousness, so shall he hate perversity; conversely, in proportion to bequest in the lot of evil, one will act wickedly and
25. abominate truth. God has appointed these spirits as equals until the time of decree and renewal. He foreknows the outworking of their deeds for all the ages
26. [of eternity. ] He has granted them dominion over humanity, so imparting knowledge of good [and evil, de]ciding the fate of every living being by the measure of which spirit predominates in [ ] visitation.


The decree and renewal are at the event horizon now. We can clearly see the two forces in balance. Here is one example:

God created man and woman to come together to form new life. How has this union been counterfeited? God designed man to have a soul and a spirit. The spirit is the part of God that travels this wilderness accompanying man as he learns. The union here is intended for man to love God along the path and the two become one new creation. How has this process of development in the womb of the earth been counterfeited?

The excluded middle of this entire process is to see the motive of each side. One is out for the good of mankind by designing destiny. One is there to be the force to overcome. The beast is man himself. Overcoming the Beast of 666 There are three levels to overcome. Personal, National and Global. Clear away all the misguided myths and see one story. Man is to love God and overcome the beast (animal nature) inside him to have the rest revealed to him in retrospect. God offers the final perspective to us as we look back. History is our reflecting point as we travel to the future.




posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


Our destiny is to defeat error by our own work, guided by God in the process. The lives we live over the centuries is a development of sentience. It is a struggle to overcome an enemy by the leading of God through the 3 ages of history.

Consider this text from the DSS.

13. A text belonging to the Instructor, who is to enlighten and teach all the Sons of Light about the character and fate of humankind:
14. all their spiritual varieties with accompanying signs, all their deeds generation by generation, and their visitation for afflictions together with
15. eras of peace. All that is now and ever shall be originates with the God of knowledge. Before things come to be, He has ordered all their designs,
16. so that when they do come to exist—at their appointed times as ordained by His glorious plan—they fulfill their destiny, a destiny impossible to change.


Understand the central story and then divide the light from the darkness. Only Christ actually accomplished the rising part of the overall revelation.

Sir,
I respectfully ask for clarification. The underlined statements above I am perfectly fine with.

Reasons:
*I believe in reincarnation, and that the soul is a part of the Divinity called by some "God";
*I believe that we re-enter the Earthly population time after time, and err until we have learned all of the lessons, and are then prepared to dwell in the Eternal Peace of that Divinity;
*I believe that once we have reached that level of understanding, we may CHOOSE to come back to the earthly plane to teach, or may choose NOT to do so; and,
*I believe that in either of the latter cases (whether as a still-learning being, or a teaching being), our destiny is pre-determined.

That said:
It is the emboldened statement above that does not compute. There are many spiritual roads, and there have been many men and women who have been as the "teachers" spoken of. Some include Confucius, Buddha, Christ, Krishna, Ghandi. Each just as wise and in communion with the Divine as the others. Two of them are dwelling here on Earth today: the current Dalai Lama, and Judy Goodman (though that does mean there are not others).

In my mind, those wise and learned and experience souls who have reached a higher understanding and more resounding peacefulness and awareness may return, as teachers, to reach the people in whose cultures and ages they have CHOSEN to be sent, knowing ahead of time in their ethereal, spiritual forms what lessons are needed by themselves, and/or what they can do to assist others. They are guided by what you would call the "Holy Spirit". No spirit reincarnates without full acceptance of this destiny. It is when we are reborn as mortal human entities that this knowledge is "hidden" from us until we again return to the spiritual plane.

I have two questions for you. The first is two-fold, regarding your sources and the diversity of your research: Have you read these two books?:

A: The Urantia Book.
This was the first text to which I was "serendipitously" exposed that stated what I had ALREADY INTUITED on my own, secretly.

sometime between 1924 and 1955. Its authorship remains a matter of speculation
And yes, I am aware of the controversy and the scholarly studies of its origin(s) and sources, and allegations of plagiarism. Much like your Bible, it is esoteric, cryptic, and a compilaton of writings of others. This in no way detracts from my agreement with its themes and symbolism I will make a disclaimer that it has been many years since I was first introduced to it at the age of about 20, and only on two occasions have a referenced it anew, but its message remained with me based upon the fact that it reinforced what I had already independently imagined to be the real Truth at about the age of 12; and,
B: The Celestine Prophecy, c 1993 by James Redfield.
This one, much more quickly and easily read and which makes use of simple, straightforward wording and style (decidedly UNLIKE the Bible and the Urantia Book both, which deficit they share in common and is often used as claims to debunk them alike).

The second question is this: Are you familiar with the work of Judy Goodman?

Have you studied with her? I have. One of her tenets is: "I don't teach students, I teach teachers. Each of you here are actually teachers, and I am here to help you refine your destiny in this." She was the ONE person (of all the now-living people I have personally heard, personally learned from, and personally asked for guidance, and all the deceased people whose writings I have read) who made actual sense to me, and to whom I went for further information and instruction.

I am happy to provide links, but not before I have been asked for them, and have your assurance that you agree to meet me on a middle level where you neither claim to be my teacher, nor declare me an ignorant nay-sayer, and to use prose that is clear, not overly poetic, and to the point. That is, as equals, and students, both.

Sincerely,
wt

edit on 2-1-2012 by wildtimes because: spelling, grammar, clarity, typos



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 




That said:
It is the emboldened statement above that does not compute. There are many spiritual roads, and there have been many men and women who have been as the "teachers" spoken of. Some include Confucius, Buddha, Christ, Krishna, Ghandi. Each just as wise and in communion with the Divine as the others. Two of them are dwelling here on Earth today: the current Dalai Lama, and Judy Goodman (though that does mean there are not others).


There are many spiritual roads a person can travel, but only one leads to God and away from sin and death. All religions are works based paths. They depend on what you do. God is interested in a changed heart and faith in Him as the single one to be sought. Anything that looks to another source for a path to redemption is an idol.

With that said, there are good sources to consider for right thinking and right conduct. There is no question that our faith will produce good works and any source that clings to virtue will be a worthy consideration. The fact remains, only one name has ever satisfied God with perfection. Plenty of people in the past have found faith in God. Only one offers salvation from the material to the spirit realm.

We are souls that are called children of God. We are children of God until we are no longer Children. We all wait here until Christ returns shortly. Faith becomes fact when this happens. Until this happens, we can only have faith. We are currently mastered by sin and death. Those who have claimed redemption from Christ can claim a new master. Under the Jubilee laws, a kinsman is the only party that can redeem a person from another master. Jesus is the only one. Single.

It is a gift that requires faith. Grace is unmerited. This means we have done nothing to deserve it apart from our humility before God in belief. Faith requires a love for God and others as the fruit of faith. Faith apart from works is dead. Pride must be removed to have this love in our hearts. This paragraph contains all the spiritual truth anyone needs to be on the correct path.



A: The Urantia Book.


I have not read it but will now that you have mentioned it.



B: The Celestine Prophecy, c 1993 by James Redfield.


I think I saw the movie. I have not read the book, but will check it out.



The second question is this: Are you familiar with the work of Judy Goodman?


I did a search and read a few of her thoughts. She seems to be on the wavelength of NLP and personal coaching. She seems to be in all the typical fringe extreme of spiritual understanding.

When viewing these things, I always keep this verse in mind:

Matthew 7:14 - "Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it"

We can get completely wrapped up in Dogma and religious ritual. No doubt people are in this exoteric practice. We can also get completely wrapped up in the other extreme of esoteric spirituality. This is also a winding path. Jesus said it clearly: There is a narrow path that a person can see between exoteric and esoteric extremes. As I said above, it is a simple way and a simple gift given to anyone willing to find it. Love for God and others is what faith in God and Jesus produces. Nothing else is needed.

Matthew 6:33 says it all: "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well."


edit on 2-1-2012 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-1-2012 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


Hello, and thanks for your time in answering me.

"I notice that I made an error in my grammar when I read back your quote: I wrote "though that does mean there are not others".

What I meant to say (despite my efforts to edit! Doh!) was
....Though that does NOT mean there are NOT others....

*slaps forehead and humbly gives thanks for you letting it slide*

Anyway, I appreciate your response, and in good faith hope to hear from you again.
As far as Judy goes, I have yet to be persuaded that she is not legitimate.

Regards,
wt



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 05:54 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 




Anyway, I appreciate your response, and in good faith hope to hear from you again. As far as Judy goes, I have yet to be persuaded that she is not legitimate.


I think people like her have good intentions. She has a message that is selling for her. You can see this from her various websites. I always look at these things by following the fruit. Her intention is to get clients. If you search for her materials, they are not openly available apart from the fee. There are no videos I can find or any direct articles. If you compare this to someone like Hank Hanegraff, you see the difference. LINK Like most Christian ministries, you see the word donate there. With the new age spiritual teachers, they are more likely to charge fees for services and they keep their materials proprietary. This can be traced to answering the question: Who are they doing this for?

The main implication here for me is to always check to see if they are giving or taking. A true witness is one who gives of truth freely. Apart from the message of Christ death and resurrection for mankind, the message is not true. I know this seems narrow to most who hear it, but truth can only be one way. Narrow is the only way a true path can be followed. The truth will eventually rise in a person's heart and this message is there waiting. Truth is always evidenced by what it accomplishes in the heart. Truth can be seen by experience.

I took two guys to lunch yesterday that I didn't know. They were obviously homeless, but not drunks or drug users. We shared an hour together. I shared what I know of suffering and reward and gave them a good Christian witness from love. By the end, they were both in tears of joy. Each of them knew why they were on the road and what they were running from. I told them the power of this verse:

Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things will be added to you.

One of them was especially touched. His desire was to get to his grandmother. I offered to purchase him a ticket. He called his grandmother and she already had his ticket waiting for him. They guy broke down in tears right there in the restaurant. He wasn't sad when we left. He was jumping for joy. One hour earlier, he was hunkered down on the road in sorrow and pity. The other guy was so overwhelmed by what he was seeing and hearing, he decided to call his brother for help.

Truth changes the heart. Love is the key to making this happen. A person just needs to see themselves clearly and be willing to allow God the opportunity to be the source of the love we express to others. Once the heart is changed, the love pays forward. This is giving. Love can only give.



edit on 3-1-2012 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 09:15 AM
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You chose two desperate and hungry people who had nowhere else to go, and were at rock bottom.

You fed them (spending money) and hosted them (enabling them to enter a warm eating establishment as their "friend.") You comforted them (saying kind things). You offered to pay for a bus ticket (spending more money) to make one of them even more ingratiated to you.

Sir, those actions could easily be interpreted as taking advantage of someone else's misfortune, free time, and hunger, and using what could be called generosity by some, bribery by others, or even employment to lord it over these two who had lost everything including their dignity. You seem to take a great deal of pride in having made someone weep for joy and then jump for joy, when all you did was use some money, some time, some food, and your own comfortable life to have someone pay attention to you.

I dare say they'd both have been just as joyful had they stumbled upon a couple of 20-dollar bills in a pile of leaves in a parking lot, or been given the diamond that someone dropped in the Salvation Army kettle here a few weeks ago. And if you were in your home town, you can logically expect them to seek you out again, and bring their "friends" with them. They will no doubt tell everyone they come across about what you did on a freezing cold winter day. Is that your aim? To be considered a current "Christ" and have your own disciples? What will you do then, sir, when they are camped outside your house waiting for you to appear, or they find you outside the school where you teach music, and expect you to take them out for dinner? Every day? Will you oblige? Can you?

Aiding the hopeless and desperate is all fine and well. I did it professionally as a conselor for years, and you know what? We didn't offer them food, and we didn't charge them money or pay them to come in. We also did not preach scripture to them. And each of those clients that I helped was uplifted and freed from some of the confusion that had burdened them enough to seek out help. Did I get referrals? Yes. Did it cost me money? No, but it didn't earn me much either. What I gained was the reward of having helped a fellow human to find his own best path, and to encourage him to believe he could not only find it, but follow it and come out on the other side.

As for Ms Goodman, how is her aim to get clients any different than a priest's reason for becoming a priest? I believe you are well-intentioned also, sir, but broadcasting your numerous writings and offering lunch and bus fare to a couple of hopeless sufferers does not earn you my respect. It smacks of sharp practice, self-promotion, and pride cloaked as generosity. Do you give away your book? Or do you hope to sell it?

True love, grace, is wanting what is best for the beloved with no expectation of anything in return. Anything at all.
The Road Less Travelled. M Scott Peck.
Read that one?

I don't think you're really all that interested in me or my soul, so it should not be a disappointment to you, but it may come as a surprise, that from my point of view your declared intentions are not really backed up by your actions in a meaningful way.

Honestly, what did you give those two that they could then pay forward to others?

You spoke some scripture, were nice for an hour or two, and fed and sheltered them. But they are not going to be able to do all of that for the next guy begging or languishing in an alleyway, are they? The nice part sure, the "scripture" part, doubtful (unless you gave them a copy of the bible or a pamphlet or your book). The full belly and warm building? Not so much.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


Now I have watched the inserted video.

First of all, ants take FAR better care of each other than humans do. All of them work together. None of them goes hungry. They have existed harmoniously in communities for eons. One of the most successful species known to earth. The analogy leaves that out, no?

It makes ants sound like an ignorant, incompetent bunch of no-hopers (which they are decidedly NOT). Then it goes further to say think of it as God first shouting at the ants, and then becoming an ant...and does God then tell the ants that they can become humans if they listen to this boy-turned-ant. Who then leaves.

Preposterous logic. And a lame story to tell an eight-year old kid.
And he did not answer the question, either. The child's question was why Jesus came to earth if his life in Heaven was perfect. He got a story about himself yelling at ants, and then becoming an ant.
The message is that the child's life is perfect, and that he would willingly become an ant and then help those ants become human if he were God.

Seriously? Actually, if Zack could become an ant, I bet he would, and then he'd see how a well-run society where everyone is cared for, and no one is homeless and hungry really works. Hmmm.
For his sake, I hope he at least got interested in ants, and learns about them.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 




I dare say they'd both have been just as joyful had they stumbled upon a couple of 20-dollar bills in a pile of leaves in a parking lot, or been given the diamond that someone dropped in the Salvation Army kettle here a few weeks ago. And if you were in your home town, you can logically expect them to seek you out again, and bring their "friends" with them. They will no doubt tell everyone they come across about what you did on a freezing cold winter day. Is that your aim? To be considered a current "Christ" and have your own disciples? What will you do then, sir, when they are camped outside your house waiting for you to appear, or they find you outside the school where you teach music, and expect you to take them out for dinner? Every day? Will you oblige? Can you?


Paying for a meal each day for the rest of their lives will not give them what they need to be self-sufficient. Housing them and giving them their needs for a life of welfare will not empower them to do this on their own. After hearing their stories, it was clear they both knew why they were on the road. I shared something with them that is likely to change their lives forever. It's very simple.

The simple truth of anyone's life can be summed up in what they take and what they give. If taking is all a person does, then a debt is too great to pay and a person looses everything. Giving is the key. Suffering should always be the aim to find true reward. For instance, if a person smokes, they get cancer. This is because a reward was taken that leads to a debt in the body. Taking always leads to a debt. On the other hand, if a person suffers the work of a college education, a degree follows. This builds opportunity. Small opportunities eventually become stability in life. Even when jobs are scarce, preserving bridges to family is yet another opportunity that can be claimed by being a loving and giving person. Taking must be replaced by giving. Both men agreed with me and told me several examples in their own lives where this was true for them. The younger man even stated that he wished he had know this information 10 years ago. His thought to go to his Grandmother was his last opportunity. It is very possible that what I said will allow him to go take care of his grandmother rather than take advantage of her good will. A slight shift is his thinking could turn his life around.

Form there, I shared the truth with them. Seek first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. These things are basic needs. I can clearly see that you would not agree with this. You may not offer assistance to the least among us, but my decision is always to assist a person in need. I feed them real food that lasts a lifetime. A meal lasts for a few hours. A $20 might be misused, but I am not the judge. What I shared with them will last a lifetime. There may come a day in your life where you will see this for yourself. What we give to others will always bring reward for them in ways we may never know. In the end, God changes lives when we share his love.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 



I can clearly see that you would not agree with this. You may not offer assistance to the least among us, but my decision is always to assist a person in need.


What? If that is what you "clearly see" then you do not "see" at all. I have, and do, often, and in a way that has more meaning than spending one hour in a restaurant with two cold, hungry people and then thinking I saved them with a bit of Scripture.

You think you have the only "true" handle on the "planting seeds" thing? Good grief, man.

You either did not read my posts through, or you are not understanding what I said. I have thought about your story since my last post. It takes dedication, time, availability, and effort -- on an ongoing basis -- as well as a sense of safety and continuity of care to learn what a person's inner strife really is, to be able to understand the root of their suffering, and to come up with an effective way to help them determine their OWN best course of action.

I have had many, many unsolicited conversations with people in all manner of circumstances. I have been approached by clerks at Home Depot, street beggars, college students from excessively wealthy families, abused persons, train commuters, airline passengers, grocery baggers, nurses, housekeepers, and on and on. From time to time I have wondered if I have a tattoo or neon light on my forehead that can not be seen by me, but appears to read to others: "Tell me your troubles. I'm here to help and will do what I can."

I listen to each one, openly. I offer what I can to uplift them, to value themselves. When I was "formally" counseling I spent my own effort, time, and energy thinking over the things those people who came to me as clients disclosed to me, and considering which of a number of ways would be most effective to help them deal with their own problems and conflicts in a way that would empower them to find healthy goals, and develop healthy coping mechanisms.

I didn't just buy them a burger, listen to their troubles for one hour, tell them about the Bible, and then advise them to call their families, and then go and say, "They left my presence knowing what they were running from and what they needed to do." !!

Ed, I think, actually, it's best if we agree to "minister" to the "least among us" in our own ways. I'm fine with the way my own spirit has enabled me to assist others to find some spark of hope, some worthy goals, and some understanding of what they are doing to hamper their own progress.

But thanks for your response.

EDIT TO ADD: I also found it odd that you felt it important to point out that these two people were homeless, "but not drunks or drug addicts." I had a client list FULL of drunks and drug addicts. I didn't say "You? No." I also had clients who were tea-totalers, children of abusive or addicted parents, promiscuous teens, gang members, parolees, persons out of touch with reality, etc. Would you help those people?
edit on 3-1-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 




Seriously? Actually, if Zack could become an ant, I bet he would, and then he'd see how a well-run society where everyone is cared for, and no one is homeless and hungry really works. Hmmm.
For his sake, I hope he at least got interested in ants, and learns about them.


You are fighting the very reason for this in yourself. The reason ants are ordered and in harmony is because they were created to serve man. They have no reason or sentience. Other than the task they were created for, they are devoid of making a choice to walk against the marching orders or their instinct. Man was allowed free will. We reason and have awareness of more than our instinct. Pride elevates one against the other and takes away harmony. God is asking each of us to see truth. As Hank points out to Zach, a good comparison is seeing God come down from his place of glory to become lower in glory like us, but overcoming this existence by love and self-control. This is love demonstrated. Love does not seek self. God could just as easily step on our ant hill and destroy us. This is another amazing aspect of what Hank had to say to Zach. Your own self-pride is blinding you for allowing anyone the room to speak truth. We all have this pride. The point of living is ruling pride with love and intellect by valuing the world in humility and reverence. Apart from religion, any spiritual teacher will tell you the same thing. Pride will drag you down with it if it is not controlled.

The way to communicate truth to a conversation like this is to avoid being against the subject with attacks. It is better to elevate the conversation with higher truth. Bias only builds ground for the other person to stand against you. Truth brings common ground and discovery. A good book on this is Verbal Judo by George Thompson. Humility and respect builds dignity and honor. George makes a good point in his book: Think for the other person in the same manner in which they should be thinking for themselves. Remove bias at every step.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 



The reason ants are ordered and in harmony is because they were created to serve man.

And here I thought ants were a species of nature that had their act together and cared for their own so that they would survive.

Ed, really, I think we're done here.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by SuperiorEd

.......The reason ants are ordered and in harmony is because they were created to serve man.....



Wow, the ants in your world are really different that the ones in mine. (What are you smoking?)

OK, before I call this possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard on this site....just answer me.

How is it that ants are serving man?
edit on 3-1-2012 by vogon42 because: typo



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

.......The reason ants are ordered and in harmony is because they were created to serve man.....



Wow, the ants in your world are really different that the ones in mine. (What are you smoking?)

OK, before I call this possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard on this site....just answer me.

How is it that ants are serving man?
edit on 3-1-2012 by vogon42 because: typo


They are our example. All of nature proclaims the glory of God. All archetypes in nature serve the greater purpose of the kingdom they reside in. Man has the distinction of being multi-domain. All levels of nature have characteristics that serve the whole. This is the example nature gives us. Service by giving to the greater good is what all life does. Each gives of itself to be a piece of the larger puzzle. Man is designed for the same, yet our free will causes the opprotunity to choose form opposites. In other words, we can choose to go against the law of giving in nature. Just like Genesis points out, good and evil are the archetype for all opposites. Knowing the difference in opposites allows logic, reason and choice. We see a difference and make a choice. The earth was given to man as a means to learn the lessons nature teaches. Ants serve man by example. They also provide a function that serves the whole. Man could learn a thing or two from nature.

As a matter of fact, we will learn these lessons very soon. As nature begins to break down, we will feel the effects in the food chain. Do ants fit into this food chain and is this important to the overall? Answer a question for me. Do ants serve man? How about bees?




edit on 3-1-2012 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

.......The reason ants are ordered and in harmony is because they were created to serve man.....



Wow, the ants in your world are really different that the ones in mine. (What are you smoking?)

OK, before I call this possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard on this site....just answer me.

How is it that ants are serving man?
edit on 3-1-2012 by vogon42 because: typo


The question can be approached in another way. Soil is created by decomposition. In part, ants assist this process. They also aerate the soil. They clean up messes left by humans and other animals. They are used in medical procedures in the East. There are serious crop pests that are eaten by ants. In many cases, ants accomplish soil regeneration when worms are not present. Most importantly, ants disperse seeds.

Asking why a species aids and benefits man in service to the whole is ignoring nature. Man would die apart from the presence of bees. All life is here for a purpose. Ultimately, the sun and moon provide the first union to serve man. Does the sun serve man?



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 




do ants serve man

No....and your clouded, rambling answer did not convince me. Just makes me think you are full of hot air.


As a matter of fact, we will learn these lessons very soon. As nature begins to break down, we will feel the effects in the food chain.


That I totally agree with. We should all learn to respect the great mother of the woods, for it is her who provides animals, plants....all of nature.
The more we disrespect her, and trample on her domain, the more we set ourselves up for failure.

So, go sit in your church, that was built by MAN. Go read your book, that was written by MAN.

I will sit in the wilderness, and will feel peace and comfort in nature and the goddess.
edit on 3-1-2012 by vogon42 because: typo

edit on 3-1-2012 by vogon42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 




Ed, I think, actually, it's best if we agree to "minister" to the "least among us" in our own ways. I'm fine with the way my own spirit has enabled me to assist others to find some spark of hope, some worthy goals, and some understanding of what they are doing to hamper their own progress.


Your previous statements were contrary to what I was doing to help others. This implies that you did not agree that giving matters. If you give to others, then simply add to the conversation with other examples that show your own giving. I have not given a negative summary of your dealings with those who need help, but simply defended my reasoning to do so. It is good that you work with others. Each person brings their own unique food to the table of conversation when it's positive and uplifting.



I didn't just buy them a burger, listen to their troubles for one hour, tell them about the Bible, and then advise them to call their families, and then go and say, "They left my presence knowing what they were running from and what they needed to do." !!


As far as I know, you were not a witness to what happened or the words said by the other gentleman. I merely summarized an amazing encounter with two men that needed help as hundreds of cars were passing them by unnoticed. No need to blast me and then produce the same examples in your defense. There is no need to defend giving. It's what we should do.

According to what you have stated, my service is somehow to be avoided but yours is based on a higher truth. Please reveal this higher truth. As far as I can see, we're both serving the interests of others out of a giving heart. Giving should always be valued over walking by in avoidance.

Serving others is the best thing we can do in life. Any help is a benefit to those who are struggling. Positive adds to positive. Your examples are very admirable. I find it odd that you are taking such a had line against me in this. That kind of bias never serves anyone very well from my experience. It goes against what you are trying to uphold on the other end of your comments. I can take it if you want to keep dishing it out. I'll just stick to truth and keep my comments positive.



You think you have the only "true" handle on the "planting seeds" thing? Good grief, man.

You either did not read my posts through, or you are not understanding what I said. I have thought about your story since my last post. It takes dedication, time, availability, and effort -- on an ongoing basis -- as well as a sense of safety and continuity of care to learn what a person's inner strife really is, to be able to understand the root of their suffering, and to come up with an effective way to help them determine their OWN best course of action.


This gets at the heart of much of what the mysteries tried to teach. In the broader scope of what can be said to a suffering person, there are root truths that, when shared, can answer a broad perspective of issues in a simple way. This has always been effective for me. What can be accomplished in one meal? Well, after years of doing this, a great deal. The Bible is filled with parables and verses that answer a broad range of issues. These are universal truths that can make a difference now in a person's life. They say more than analyzing can ever accomplish. Given a short time, speaking truth from scripture is an effective way of communicating more than the words can say alone. If you do not agree with the Bible, then just say so. Leave me out of it.

As you point out, there are other ways. It comes down to the individual doing the speaking and their unique experience. It also comes down to the attitudes we bring to the conversation. Bias destroys any hope of truth reaching an eager ear. We share ourselves when we share from love.



edit on 3-1-2012 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by vogon42
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 




do ants serve man

No....and your clouded, rambling answer did not convince me. Just makes me think you are full of hot air.


As a matter of fact, we will learn these lessons very soon. As nature begins to break down, we will feel the effects in the food chain.


That I totally agree with. We should all learn to respect the great mother of the woods, for it is her who provides animals, plants....all of nature.
The more we disrespect her, and trample on her domain, the more we set ourselves up for failure.

So, go sit in your church, that was built by MAN. Go read your book, that was written by MAN.

I will sit in the wilderness, and will feel peace and comfort in nature and the goddess.
edit on 3-1-2012 by vogon42 because: typo

edit on 3-1-2012 by vogon42 because: (no reason given)


Do you mean that nature will serve your needs just fine? I am fuzzy on your logic here. You say ants do not serve man, yet you are eagerly saying that nature will serve you from its goodness. Does this seem to be a contradiction in reasoning?



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by SuperiorEd
......
... You say ants do not serve man, yet you are eagerly saying that nature will serve you from its goodness....



No ed.....I am not that arrogant to believe that ants....or other nature are there to SERVE me.

There is WAY too much ego in that idea.........man thats almost sick.

Ants are an important part of the ecosystem, and part of nature. We should live in harmony with nature. NOT view it as our SERVANTS.

That is a very egotistical, arrogant, selfish point of view. This is why the planet is going to crap...
"Respect nature....no, nature is my SERVANT."



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
......
... You say ants do not serve man, yet you are eagerly saying that nature will serve you from its goodness....



No ed.....I am not that arrogant to believe that ants....or other nature are there to SERVE me.

There is WAY too much ego in that idea.........man thats almost sick.

Ants are an important part of the ecosystem, and part of nature. We should live in harmony with nature. NOT view it as our SERVANTS.

That is a very egotistical, arrogant, selfish point of view. This is why the planet is going to crap...
"Respect nature....no, nature is my SERVANT."


Are you familiar with servant leadership? Only love can serve. This is the point of the thread. The Mystery schools were designed around duplicity. They were a way to get in touch, through sleep, to reach the divine being of the soul. To do this, Karma needed to be lessened during the day. This was purely a works oriented religion. There is no difference here from exoteric religion practiced today. Before Christ, the desire was always two things: The reward and the avoidance of judgment. Both of these are selfish goals. When a patriarch was praised, they were always praised for selfless faith. This was evidenced by their service and giving to others as a way to honor God. Read Hebrews 11. It's a list of the early men who found faith free from duplicity. Love can only act in accordance with service to others. Nature was designed to serve. So were we. Nothing God makes is designed to take. Taking is pride. We take from others in countless ways. Only servant leadership gives as a way to honor God. No reward is needed other than pleasing God out of reverence for what He has done for us by providing our reality and consciousness.

I can see from your response that you are viewing the service of the ant to the king of man. This is far from the service I am referring to. Jesus exemplified this service and showed the true way to God. Seeking God is never about, "What's in if for me." It's always about what's in if for we. What did Jesus do as the example of servant leadership? He washed the disciples feet. It was the example to us and from nature each day.




edit on 3-1-2012 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 07:41 PM
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Ed, I would like to refer you to this very eloquently spoken yvid, on a post from another.

I don't know what "passages" you tell your listeners are the truth. You are right, I was not there. I was responding based on your description of the interaction, and I made myself clear. I will not ask you again to answer the questions I posed to you directly, as you have done so by not answering them.

Like I said before, I believe you are well-intentioned.

The Truth is universal, and not decided by a show of hands. That is my bias, and you are right, I am negative about people using the Bible, and the Bible alone, to "help" others.
www.abovetopsecret.com...



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