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chemtrails over Florida 01-01-2012

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posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by onecraftydude
reply to post by niceguybob
 


There are threads 3 years old asking the simple question "What is in the contrails and why do they exist?"

How long will we be silent?

Knowing is one thing, doing is entirely another subject. If the majority agree there is a problem they should be entertained by those in positions to influence change.

The current mantra is to claim stupidity and not look up.


I had never realized the chemtrails...or actually noticed patterns and extreme volumes of them before coming to this site. I believe I read on here that they are for detecting UFO activity or for tracing/tracking those that are cloaked in our skies....I am trying to find the thread. I did find one which lead me to dig and research more about chemtrails and how they affect humans.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Another thread mentioning theories about the chemtrails; and I believe there are quite a few on this subject as well as well as a concert of deception from multiple vantage points.

www.abovetopsecret.com...





edit on 2-1-2012 by mcsandy because: typo, addtl link




posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 01:39 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 01:53 AM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 


Prove them wrong, then:


Metabunk.org ??


One of the persons who posted in that thread that I linked mentioned he (she) had initially begun a very extensive examination of the "Case Orange" claptrap, but lost interest. Likely since it is futile to explain to those who willfully and regularly display a complete and utter lack of science and aviation knowledge, and instead allow themselves to be led around by hoaxers and con artists.

Show your work:


A site that gives you step by step on how to debunk something - true or not doesn't matter.



Oh bother, I'll do it for you. Apparently you only read what you wished of their Home page, and misunderstood entirely the point.

HERE:


Debunking is NOT about taking one side of an argument, and then using whatever means possible to convince someone that you are correct.


Home page

See? Right there, clear as day.

Note again, for emphasis:


Debunking is NOT about taking one side of an argument, and then using whatever means possible to convince someone that you are correct.


The SCIENCE and FACTS clearly debunk "chemtrails" as demonstrated repeatedly. THAT is true debunking......specifically, to "remove bunk". The "de" in front of "bunking". Like "de-greasing".

"chemtrails" are indeed, utter and undeniable BUNK.



Regardless.....this below pretty well destroys the claims that are so frequently made RE: "chemtrails" right here:



Don't forget your gas masks pals.


That notion is so utterly absurd, yet all too many simply accept it without question.

Because, NO ONE who "believes" in "chemtrails" bothers to actually reason it out, in order to see just how foolish a claim it is!!

(Hint: It involves the tremendous size of the Earth's atmosphere, in total....too many people think in 2D, and forget about depth and the resulting volume of air.....and the resulting tiny, even paltry, amounts of any total quantity of something to "loft" by airplane.....and the nonsense that even if "released" at 35,000 feet it would have any effects whatsoever. This would have to be a far, far more massive undertaking, and the technology is still under development, even IF it will be possible to be effective large-scale. The numerous and various "guesses" about "chemtrails" are truly nutty....purely speculative, and not based on any facts or understanding of the technical challenges).

Of course, in ALL cases of so-called "chemtrails" (which are merely normal cirrus clouds, or contrails) they never, ever, ever descend to the Earth's surface. NO one has ever seen this happen, nor filmed it with their iPhone4s, or any other video device.

NO reputable scientist nor any other expert in aviation or meteorology will say anything other than what they already know and understand about contrails.

What is truly astonishing, nowadays, is this wonderful tool exists, where a person can actually educate themselves for free, in various ways......this thing called the "Internet".....and it is mis-used and abused with the most ridiculous nonsense ever cooked up.......tragic, really.

Discernment abilities that some people lack. Tragic.
edit on Mon 2 January 2012 by ProudBird because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 02:00 AM
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reply to post by mcsandy
 


And, this exhibits (all respect) the "problem" --- it is a sort of Human phenomenon of "magical thinking" and it very common:


I had never realized the chemtrails...or actually noticed patterns and extreme volumes of them before coming to this site.


I would go so far as to compare these sorts of "beliefs' that are absent any rational evidence f any kind as a form of "superstition". Just look at the "power of suggestion", there!! ^ ^ ^

"Superstition" in the realm of one's thinking that wearing certain articles of clothing will help their favourite sports team win, etc.

Horse shoes, and other "good luck" charms are further examples.

Of course, the worst "magical thinking" of all is religion. The penultimate form of superstition. But of course, this is why sme Humans can be so readily and easily influenced. Bit of a gullible nature that we can sometimes exhibit.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 02:54 AM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by ProudBird
 


Metabunk.org ?? This is the site you proffer as having debunked the Belfort Group? A site that advises you to use character assassination on the messenger if the material itself cannot be debunked.


Where does it say that?


A site that gives you step by step on how to debunk something - true or not doesn't matter.



Now that is just silly and shows a lack of understanding about what "bunk" is - "bunk" is stuff that is untrue. Whether the initial premise itself is true or not doesn't matter - if there is any "bunk" around it then that bunk should be removed. Whatever left is then debunked.

With chemtrails of course nothing is left


But there is certainly also some bunk about things that are true - such as quotes taken out of context as a simple and obvious example - putting a quote into its proper context often removes a great deal of bunk.

Anyone who is opposed to debunking is saying they want errors and untrue statements to remain.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 03:19 AM
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reply to post by ProudBird
 


I agree with you on the fact of people "trusting" what others believe as fact from other communications probably from here or other conspiracy site. Yes the sheople can be lead as a heard.


I have noticed the contrails all my life....but rarely have I ever seen a pattern nor a broad brush strokings of grids in the sky. I believe it isn't because it didn't llook - more from being hunkered down inside slaving for $ - never having a vacation as an entrepreneur and single mother, which also meant I rarely spent time outside. When I did I would get sun poisoning which was a precursor to other illnesses that I have which has rendered me dissabled where I live a quite sedentary existence.

In researching my vast symptoms; which could include lyme disease where the symptoms resemble those of Morgellons disease and the info I found actually brought me to ATS. Moreover, I then found the multiple debates of trails (con/chem) within this site and came to the conclusion as another poster stated....planes were crop dusting pesticide a long time before we knew the truth and it makes one wonder if it worked in that arena why not utilize the emmission of a new chemical for whatever reason and just state it is simply exhaust from the engines as the sheople believed before? I hope I am not that niave or gullable (sp?).



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 04:18 AM
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reply to post by mcsandy
 


Hi mcsandy,
you may need to cut and paste the below into google. It is worth reading, about 71 pages.

www.belfort-group.eu/sites/default/files/page/2010/05/COpart1.pdf



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 04:20 AM
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I saw them yesterday too...and now today and tomorrow are going to be shockingly colder high 65 today and high of 52 tomorrow. But it is windy so that is good news! The amount of chemtrails yesterday was the worst I have ever seen since I moved here 3 years ago. Love it here...because you can frequently still have blue sky days-which were nonexistent in Chicago.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 04:55 AM
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reply to post by mcsandy
 


Apologies if I've misunderstood your post, but are you saying that because crop spraying works, chemtrails may be the same thing?

Firstly, crop spraying was never a secret, it was publicised from the very start. There were secret military spraying operations, which are now known about, but the common characteristic they shared with crop spraying is that, when done from the air, it was at low level from relatively slow moving aircraft. I said when done from the air because some of the experiments were done spraying from vehicles on the ground. This is essential in order to put whatever substance it is where you want it.

An airliner at 30,000ft and 600mph is not targeting anything at all, not only would the dissipation reduce anything sprayed to nothingness, but contrails,which are made up of ice crystals as cirrus clouds are, never come down at all, cirrus clouds do not ever result in rain or snowfall.

Something else to consider if pondering the idea of high flying jets spraying a vapourous substance at a target on the ground is the following;

As I mentioned, these airliners are flying at 600mph and 30,000ft and above.

During WW2, the infamous 1,000 bomber raids flown by RAF Bomber Command consisted of fleets of Lancasters, Halifax's etc each carrying 10-14 x 1,000lb iron bombs. They flew at between 10 - 15,000ft and cruised at 200mph

Of these 10,000 bombs, anything falling within 4 miles of the target was considered a hit, the target being not a specific point on the ground, but an entire city. This is because dropping an inanimate object from the air onto a specific target is extremely difficult the higher you go, modern bombs utilise steering fins and laser designators to get them where they are wanted.

The idea that a vapour spray, at the mercy of random air currents,can be targeted at all is plain silly, that it can be done from three times faster and higher than these huge bombs were dropped is beyond ludicrous.



edit on 2-1-2012 by waynos because: Clarification



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 07:09 AM
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Originally posted by onecraftydude

Originally posted by mileysubet

Originally posted by onecraftydude
reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 



i am just presenting visible proof of SOMETHING that does not belong in our sky made by the airplanes that transit it.


Contrails consist primarily of water in the form of ice crystals, and of course the exhaust from the air planes engines. Nothing sinister really.

Normal crystallized water will evaporate in the sun and fall out of the sky in colder weather.

This is not normal crystallized water vapor sir.


Oh, please give us the formula for computing the sublimation rate and please quantify the mass transfer coefficient are you using to define "normal" ice crystals? I prefer to live an evidence based existence and vague unsupported statements are not very good evidence.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by onecraftydude
I have watched a meteorologist in Tampa Florida state on live tv that these are obviously chaff just like they used in military aircraft overseas since they show up on radar. So he must be wrong and you are right because of your background in basic meteorology?

Chaff is not chemtrails:
1) Chaff does not form persistent “clouds”.
2) Chaff is visible on radar, “chemtrials” are not.
3) Chaff is only used in areas closed for military maneuvers called Military Operations Areas (MOA's), which are closed to other traffic with an appropriate Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) filed with the FAA to warn away civilian air traffic.


What if you are wrong?

Did I dream that a meteorologist showed me chemtrails on radar and said it was the same stuff they used in the military where he watched them on radar?

You might be a stand up guy and very informative and helpful, but you might also be passing around misinformation because you believe in the civilized manner of people. I am here to tell you that power corrupts and evil people with bad intentions love power. That may sound ridiculous to you, but it is true.

That being said, in order for you to hold the same attitude you must ignore all the reports of aluminum oxide and barium falling from these heavy chemtrails. You must ignore chemtrails on radar. You must ignore weather conditions because it has been proven they can show up in any weather. Seems like a lot to ignore to protect your comfortable "TRUTH".



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by waynos
 


So cirrus clouds just linger in the sky right? They also block uv rays. Without the airplane traffic there would be no cirrus clouds over Florida every day. I want them gone.

I never said they were pinpointing a spot to chemtrail. They chemtrail the entire sky. All the chemtrails appear to be coming from the same type of plane as well. Half of the planes in the sky leave heavy trails and half leave none.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by F4guy

Originally posted by onecraftydude

Originally posted by mileysubet

Originally posted by onecraftydude
reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 



i am just presenting visible proof of SOMETHING that does not belong in our sky made by the airplanes that transit it.


Contrails consist primarily of water in the form of ice crystals, and of course the exhaust from the air planes engines. Nothing sinister really.

Normal crystallized water will evaporate in the sun and fall out of the sky in colder weather.

This is not normal crystallized water vapor sir.


Oh, please give us the formula for computing the sublimation rate and please quantify the mass transfer coefficient are you using to define "normal" ice crystals? I prefer to live an evidence based existence and vague unsupported statements are not very good evidence.


The only facts I am presenting are the obvious ones in the sky. Discount their purpose all you like. The fact remains they are covering our skies and blocking sunlight. I want them gone.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by onecraftydude

Originally posted by F4guy

Originally posted by onecraftydude

Originally posted by mileysubet

Originally posted by onecraftydude
reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 



i am just presenting visible proof of SOMETHING that does not belong in our sky made by the airplanes that transit it.


Contrails consist primarily of water in the form of ice crystals, and of course the exhaust from the air planes engines. Nothing sinister really.

Normal crystallized water will evaporate in the sun and fall out of the sky in colder weather.

This is not normal crystallized water vapor sir.


Oh, please give us the formula for computing the sublimation rate and please quantify the mass transfer coefficient are you using to define "normal" ice crystals? I prefer to live an evidence based existence and vague unsupported statements are not very good evidence.


The only facts I am presenting are the obvious ones in the sky. Discount their purpose all you like. The fact remains they are covering our skies and blocking sunlight. I want them gone.


The obvious facts are that on the day of the reported Florida "trails" a cold front was approaching Florida. It has now arrived. See, www.nws.noaa.gov...
It is a fact that an approaching cold front is usually preceeded by cirrus clouds because of the colder air mass subducting under more moist (less dense) air. See, www.rcn27.dial.pipex.com...
If you hear hoofbeats at a racetrack, think horses, not zebras.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5
IMHO, the thing that really puts the nail in the “chemtrail” coffin is FAA tracking itself. I know that it comes from the “government” so many here don't trust it, but the rules for air traffic are consistent because its an area that is used primarily by civilians.

Any aircraft that is operating in Class “A” Airspace, between 18K feet to 60K feet, HAVE to file a flight plan, these rules extend to our military aircraft, and even top secret flights such as the “Janet Flights” into Area 51. In order for any government entity to operate at will in the atmosphere over this country, they must either be in a Special use airspace (SUA) (such as a MOA or TFR mentioned above), or be flying VFR.

If a plane has filed a flight plan then it is traceable by any civilian using software such as “FlightAware”. If a Temporary Flight Restriction(TFR) has been filed to allow for “Spraying” then a Notice To Airmen (NOTAM) must be filed to warn away civilian air traffic.

See, they cannot just do what they want up there, there is too much civilian traffic that it would endanger.
edit on 1/1/2012 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)


I am sure plenty of people like you were spreading the word about controls etc. while at the same time the government was nuking the entire midwest before the test ban treaty stopped them. I am also sure people such as yourself defended the government for viral spraying over towns to test the immune response of the civilians.

Somehow these events were allowed to happen even with good intending people spreading misinformation unknowingly, blind to the real situation.

Sometimes when something seems cut and dry to a person it makes them ignore certain details and attack the informant instead of studying the evidence. I say let the entire debate be forgotten. We are very capable of overlooking our negative impact to protect our sensitive and precarious place in the world. We are comfortable and do not want to know what is really happening. I get it. So lets just dismiss the whole thing and say nothing ever happened.

I agree as long as the chemtrails are taken out of the sky. Reroute traffic, change engine designs or use radar forecasting to determine where the trails will persist and change the flight patterns accordingly.

I want them out of my sky!



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by F4guy

Originally posted by onecraftydude

Originally posted by F4guy

Originally posted by onecraftydude

Originally posted by mileysubet

Originally posted by onecraftydude
reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 



i am just presenting visible proof of SOMETHING that does not belong in our sky made by the airplanes that transit it.


Contrails consist primarily of water in the form of ice crystals, and of course the exhaust from the air planes engines. Nothing sinister really.

Normal crystallized water will evaporate in the sun and fall out of the sky in colder weather.

This is not normal crystallized water vapor sir.


Oh, please give us the formula for computing the sublimation rate and please quantify the mass transfer coefficient are you using to define "normal" ice crystals? I prefer to live an evidence based existence and vague unsupported statements are not very good evidence.


The only facts I am presenting are the obvious ones in the sky. Discount their purpose all you like. The fact remains they are covering our skies and blocking sunlight. I want them gone.


The obvious facts are that on the day of the reported Florida "trails" a cold front was approaching Florida. It has now arrived. See, www.nws.noaa.gov...
It is a fact that an approaching cold front is usually preceeded by cirrus clouds because of the colder air mass subducting under more moist (less dense) air. See, www.rcn27.dial.pipex.com...
If you hear hoofbeats at a racetrack, think horses, not zebras.


I know what cold fronts do and what cirrus clouds look like. I am not telling the planet to change to suit my needs. I am asking people to stand up for their right to a clear sky. I don't care if they are spraying vaccine or the plague. I just want it gone. If it is water vapor from a high bypass jet then modify the outlet temp and get rid of the trail, whatever it takes.

I support a mandate to clear the skies of contrails that persist for more than 1 minute period! All airplanes should have identification on the belly and be traceable. There should be a hotline set up for violators and stiff fines. I support clear skies for farming and solar energy. To have that air muddled up by airplane exhaust and do nothing about it is insane.

I don't care what it is, I just want it gone!



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by onecraftydude
reply to post by waynos
 


So cirrus clouds just linger in the sky right? They also block uv rays. Without the airplane traffic there would be no cirrus clouds over Florida every day. I want them gone.


Cirrus clouds can linger, but not always, it entirely depends on the temperature and relative humidity. They have been doing this for millions of years and the ones added by air travel are a tiny fraction of those natural ones. Would you complain about the waves caused by wakes of passing ships adding to the natural waves in the ocean? I'm guessing not.



I never said they were pinpointing a spot to chemtrail. They chemtrail the entire sky. All the chemtrails appear to be coming from the same type of plane as well. Half of the planes in the sky leave heavy trails and half leave none.


But I was actually addressing a specific post by someone else. The effect you are talking about is only one of several explanations that believers have put forward. Which type of plane are you referring to? I myself have posted many different photos of contrails on this very forum across a few threads, with zoomed shots of the actual and identifiable aircraft to go with it. What is it that makes you think they are chemtrails, rather than contrails?

Here's an example on this page of he research thread; www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 2-1-2012 by waynos because: Added link



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 11:27 AM
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaand cue the usual knucklheads that insist on sticking their heads in the sand.

Sorry debunkers, you KNOW clouds didn't look like this until roughly ten years ago. You know it! I think you debunkers have lied to yourselves for so long that it has become truth to you.

Proof by assertion.

Do any of you debunkers ever think about why they do this over huge populated areas and then the trail is "turned off" after the metro areas? Maybe the the temperature after the spray zone magically increases so the trails don't form? LOL!!
edit on 2-1-2012 by tbonethedstroyer because: (spelling)


edit on 2-1-2012 by tbonethedstroyer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by tbonethedstroyer
 


Why would anyone ponder to themselves about something that doesn't even happen? That way lies madness, surely the act of a "knucklehead"?


Unless you can show that chemtrails are being sprayed at all and that they are also being turned on and off over metropolitan areas, rather than it being something you just made up?

And while you are about it, you might also want to explain why you are opposed to the removal of bunk information and what you stand to gain from people believing in lies? Hmmm?
edit on 2-1-2012 by waynos because: Additional point and spelling



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by onecraftydude

Originally posted by F4guy

Originally posted by onecraftydude

Originally posted by F4guy

Originally posted by onecraftydude

Originally posted by mileysubet

Originally posted by onecraftydude
reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 









I am asking people to stand up for their right to a clear sky


And from where does that "right to a clear sky" arise? I couldn't find it in the US Constitution, or the Declaration of Independence, or even the Magna Carta. A LEXUS/NEXUS search doesn't seem to find any reference to such in any Supreme Court decision. Of course, Luddites always seem to just make up whatever "rights" they find convenient, like, for instance, the right in 1812 to be free of mechanized looms in the textile industry. And what of the right of a parent to travel across country to see a dying child? Or the right of a wounded soldier to travel home for treatment?
And it seems you want to change fundamental laws of physics. When you combust jet fuel, which is primarily a long carbon chain dudocane, or even aviation gasoline, in an atmosphere containing oxygen, the product of that oxidation-reduction chemical reaction is water. And at 10,000 or 12,000 meters, it is cold enough that that water phase changes into ice. What you want is, solely for your convenience, to eliminate all medium and high speed air travel





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