Iran using Phantom F4s

I never realised but after watching this video from the BBC I noticed that Iran was using Phantom F4s in its navy drills.

www.bbc.co.uk...

In which case Iran has no chance in any kind of war in their reigon against the West. To put this into perspective the UK first started using this aircraft in 1966 and finished using it in 1989 to be replaced by the Tornado F3, which has been replaced in 2008 with the Typhoon F3. So basically it is 2 generations behind.

Iran currently has around 50 of these fighter jets still in service, but lets do a comparison against the Eurofighter Typhoon to see how it fairs

McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II
– two seat, carrier and land based multi-role fighter
First flight - May 27, 1958
Total production - 5,195
Powerplant - two General Electric J-79 afterburning
turbofan, 16,000 lbs of static thrust.
Armament - one 20 mm six-barrel cannon (F4-E),
8 air-to-air missiles and 16,000 lbs of bombs.
Range - 1,400 N miles



Wingspan - 38 ft., 5 in. (11.7 m)
Length - 63 ft. (19.2 m)
Height - 16 ft. (5 m)
Wing area - 530 sq. ft. (49 m2)
Weight - 29,500 lbs. empty
Maximum takeoff weight –58,000 lbs.
Maximum speed - 1,583 mph, mach 2.24
at 48,000 ft.
Ceiling - 55,000 ft.

Eurofighter Typhoon

Specifications

Engines: 2 Eurojet EJ200 turbojets
Thrust: 20,000lbs each
Max speed: 1.8Mach
Length: 15.96m
Max altitude: 55,000ft
Span: 11.09m
Aircrew: 1
Armament: AMRAAM, ASRAAM, Mauser 27mm Cannon, Enhanced Paveway II, 1000 lb Freefall bomb



Typhoon in action



Conclusion, Western Air superiority would be attained within hours.

They did have F-14 Tomcats, but I don't think that they fly any more due to lack of parts. The F-4 Phantoms are old and are used by other third world air forces, so parts are available for them.

reply to post by michael1983l
Wikipedia says that they have 44 Tomcats, 25 of which are operational.

They also list Mirage F-1's and Northrup F-5's.

Then there are the MIG-29's, probably the best fighter aircraft in their inventory. They have 40 of those.

reply to post by butcherguy



Thanks for trhe additions and again it seems that the Iranian fleet is that of an ageing one.

reply to post by michael1983l


They have developed their own aircraft, based off the F-5 Tiger...

www.globalsecurity.org...

There aren't many details on it, but I'd say this is their best fighter aircraft available.

If only because it is new and parts are readily available in Iran.

Other than that, they do have a mish mash of aircraft, F4's, F-86 sabres, SU-25's, maybe 10 F14 tomcats, Mirages and even some P-36 Hawks....a WW2 prop fighter!

Like I've said in the other thread about this Iran "crisis", thinking about this in pure conventional terms is missing the point.

Yes, Iran has an inferior Navy and Air Force, but they are also pretty clued up on asymetrical warfare. They would most likely mine the straights, which would cause enough fear amongst tanker captains to have the desired affect without having to sink anything.

Also, bare in mind that they have been stirring up tensions in bahrain with the oppressed Shia majority, which is only kept in check by the presence of Saudi troops. Should the Shia manage, somehow, to overthrow their Sunni monarchy, then the position of the US 5th Fleet is compromised.

A missile up the afterburner will affect most planes.

Missile tech is way ahead of plane-tech. The S-300 can down any plane we've got. And it is much cheaper to produce than a plane.

Last time the Straits got clogged up during the tanker wars of 1980's it was China who gave Iran missile tech, one assumes it would happen that way again. China probably has s-300 and s-400 and next gen also, ready to go. These missiles are very fast, very smart.

Chinese missile tech given to the by our own US congress as per the Cox Report and Chinagate in the 1990s, not discussed, nobody punished, etc, etc. No way to win when you've got Marxist assheads running your country.

Anyway, the phantom is a great old plane. It's especially cool when used as a drone. I think the US could produce drone f4 Phantoms for like 300k a piece and just send whole robot waves of them over the enemy. It's stupid that we spend so much money and then it's the enemy who reaps the true profit and victory. Just stupid.

reply to post by Chadwickus
Good point regarding their home-brewed aircraft.

When actual combat starts, a lot of sorties means a need for a lot of spare parts.

this is irelivent why would ther using fighters if it was nukes being launched

reply to post by michael1983l


they built them to last back then what that stealt fleet the us have grounded because it keeps failing

Originally posted by haven123
this is irelivent why would ther using fighters if it was nukes being launched

What makes you think anyone wants to use Nukes..?

Originally posted by purplemer

Originally posted by haven123
this is irelivent why would ther using fighters if it was nukes being launched

What makes you think anyone wants to use Nukes..?

First you have naval positioning
Second you have naval/air warfare low-intensity (no ramjet missiles fired at ships)
Third you have naval warfare high-intensity (all weapons except nukes)
Fourth you have nuke missile launch (subs take 15 mins to hit and are vulnerable to anti-sub units)
Fifth you have surviving nukes headed down, these will hit
Six is tactical analysis of these events and of course counterstrikes.

Survival is dictated by how deep your mineshafts are and how quickly you can produce vault-dwellers to emerge into the outside world. See the fine Hollywood film "Blast From the Past" for details.



Is there an arabic or hebrew translation for this film? Let's get some dvds burnt and airdropped deep in the desert, alert the fremen. We will not allow spice production to be disturbed. These bene gesserit chicks get up-set when they don't have spice yo.

I hope this is not considered off topic...but Iran has announced they now have a nuclear fuel rod!

I am watching it live on msnbc...and I know that msnbc is not a reliable source...so I am searching to find a link to something a bit more credible!

Will update when I find something!

www.npr.org...

Here is a link to another story about it!

The fuel rod is not that big a deal.

Okay back on topic. Iran has old and not very sophisticated air force (relatively). Think pre-war Iraq.

The US has as many planes as the entire Iranian air force on one aircraft carrier. And that is not even comparing the quality of those craft...in which case one aircraft carrier would equal about 6 Iranian airforces LOL.

Originally posted by smallpeeps

Last time the Straits got clogged up during the tanker wars of 1980's it was China who gave Iran missile tech, one assumes it would happen that way again. China probably has s-300 and s-400 and next gen also, ready to go. These missiles are very fast, very smart.
.

China, at a quick glance looks like it gets about a third of it's oil through the straits, it's not in their interest to have it shut down either. Oil is like the spice in Dune, regardless of the situation, the oil must flow. China can't easily replace that amount of oil, the only country with excess capacity is Saudi Arabia. I'm really surprised that the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, haven't totally bypassed with straits with a pipeline and port city through Oman.

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by smallpeeps

Last time the Straits got clogged up during the tanker wars of 1980's it was China who gave Iran missile tech, one assumes it would happen that way again. China probably has s-300 and s-400 and next gen also, ready to go. These missiles are very fast, very smart.
.

China, at a quick glance looks like it gets about a third of it's oil through the straits, it's not in their interest to have it shut down either. Oil is like the spice in Dune, regardless of the situation, the oil must flow. China can't easily replace that amount of oil, the only country with excess capacity is Saudi Arabia. I'm really surprised that the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, haven't totally bypassed with straits with a pipeline and port city through Oman.

I heard somewhere that mentioning any aspect of Dune is immediately quashed by certain authorities.

Hmm, let's assume Frank Herbert left Dune as a prophetic blueprint. Then... all the Islam stuff about Jesus coming back, would have been known to Frank H? I am not referring much to the subsequent works but more to his single innovative sketch of the Islamists as Fremen.

We can see of course that the Fremen have way more respect for their women than the Shia do. In Dune, women are the center of the power. In Shia, they're doormats.

So I expect Dune messiah to rise under the US flag, if Herbert was a prophet that is. I'm not sure if prophets exist anyway, but no way is the mahdi coming from a place like Iran where women get attacked so horribly and have no voice at all. Nah, Jesus loves America and loves freedom. I think everyone knows that. Well there are people who thinks Jesus is loyal to Rome, but that's some stupid crap that got pasted over the true events of Jesus' time, 600 years before the Moslem prophet and his wife and generals.

Yes, I agree, spice must flow, forms must be obeyed. However, in the book, Paul is able to literally end spice altogether. So the true analogy would be a drug-$$$ analogy, and so we could assume some messiah for good would perhaps try to end all drug production, that would be a more true analogy for the book and the real world.

Ben Fulford says NK is a secret drug front run to cook meth and sell it into Asia and the world. Check at about 7:00 in of this recent interview with Ben:



Rothschild established their drug wars long before the US got built. So I think if Dune be true, then yes, there would be some Muadib persona who might speak truth about drugs and thereby end all the black markets. Drugs/Spice would not flow, so he'd be hated and feared as in the film.

But oil's not a drug truthfully like heroin or meth. So spice means drugs because it's used personally by all the highest members of that future society, thousands of years from now. Hmm, Star Trek has "synthohol" and that's only 120 years from now. Dune has "spice" and that's thousands of years in our future. All we have to do is get past this 2012 secret drug war modality and we can make the deserts bloom green, one assumes.

Al-Kaeda have no aircraft and we still haven't won that war.

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
Al-Kaeda have no aircraft and we still haven't won that war.

The Database is useful on into the future?

I heard that's what Al Qaeda means.

Far too many frikking databases these days. It's the modern weapon one assumes. But you have to print Korans to really make a good revolutionary for Allah. So you need printing presses as well as server farms to run a modern Qaeda.

Originally posted by smallpeeps

Originally posted by pavil
[...] Oil is like the spice in Dune, regardless of the situation, the oil must flow.

Yes, I agree, spice must flow, forms must be obeyed. However, in the book, Paul is able to literally end spice altogether. So the true analogy would be a drug-$$$ analogy, and so we could assume some messiah for good would perhaps try to end all drug production, that would be a more true analogy for the book and the real world.

To further discuss the Dune aspect and "spice" being more like drugs than oil...

In the book, Paul is able to destroy spice production, so it's like the royal-addicts to spice, are threatened by him.

So in that way, if there were one place where drugs were made, it'd be easier. So from that perspective, spice in the book, is like oil, in the sense that the Saudis at their time, sat on most of the oil. So this is probably what Herbert meant, spice as oil. However I still say that for a true event like in the book to happen on Earth in the same way, then this Paul character of today would have the power to affect both oil and drugs.

I understand that the true gangsters do their business in tankers of oil and briefcases full of coc aine? Why not let the regular people do business the same way? In essence, to turn the black markets white, would eliminate those markets, thus effecting a scenario much like the end of the book, "Dune". If oil and drug as currency, becomes the way of Earth, and all royal houses and water traders, etc, etc are prevented from having their black markets, one assumes it would upset them. In essence, Frank Herbert wrote Paul Atreides as the ultimate maniac of his time and place. But I'd say "spice" is drugs first, then barrels of oil second. One thing however: During wartime price fixing, it is gasoline which is most desired by all people. During WW2 rationing, people would do anything for a few pints of gas. As if it were heroin.