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How can we record data that lasts, forever?

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posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 06:30 AM
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A memory of something I've thought about before sparked and I posted a little bit about it here in a somewhat recent thread.

Here is what I said in the post.



Just imagine if water could hold data. Or air. Or even rocks. If we reached a point in technology where we could store data just about on anything, which we are slowly getting close too (storing data in crystals), then I think that will be the day we discover ancient data. I believe the history of past civilizations are all around us, but we just haven't reached that point in technology to see[read] it yet.



I also ended it with a question I really wanted to hear some replies on, but the thread flew by pretty quick in the new topics feed so not much attention went to it.

So I would like to ask..

What if we wanted to be able to store data that would last forever. How would we do it?

That's not my main question though for this thread, I just wanted to keep it in check with my original post.

I would like to know what you think could be a possibility of something that we could store data indefinitely on?

Eager to hear and elaborate on some ideas


Mine is of course water, which originally was an idea sparked by the cartoon show Metalocalypse in an episode where they recorded music onto water.

(scenario: imagine at some point in the future we all know that we will all soon perish, but know that some time in the even more distant future that mankind will go on, so we wanted to leave a bit of history so we could forever be remembered)

edit on 1/1/2012 by digitalbluco because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 06:42 AM
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Woops, looks like I slipped that idea into an earlier thread as well. Curse my memory. Anyways, wanted to quote this reply, because it simply, just blew my mind. Could be because I'm sleep deprived though.


Originally posted by cyoshi
reply to post by digitalbluco
 


That's a great idea too, I can imagine the water may contain the information in a holographic way so that with any one drop you'd find it a a mater of just tuning into the right frequency. That includes the water we're made out of. Sound familiar?



www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 1/1/2012 by digitalbluco because: forgot link

edit on 1/1/2012 by digitalbluco because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 07:19 AM
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reply to post by digitalbluco
 


not too sure about forever but i think the best candidate for data storage would be in the dna with specific markers engineered to copy the required data into the next host/recipient and so on and on. every other medium i suspect would be at the mercy of decay/environmental considerations. so as long as humanity/life exists, the information would survive.
fakedirt.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 07:32 AM
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I think water lacks the order required to store electronic information. Maybe if it was frozen in a very particular way, but then you might as well just use crystals. I also think water molecules are too polar for electronic data storage.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 08:07 AM
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Perhaps storing data in a controlled sphere of gravity.

I could see this as an option.

Perhaps, in the stable gravity-sphere, depending on the level of gravitational pull relative to the core, certain elemental particles could 'hover, or 'float' in different areas that are pretty much assigned to them.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 08:29 AM
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The only thing I know of that has the potential to last forever are the very things that came into existence at the beginning of the universe: photons.
If we could entangle photons in such a way as to record data or information, we might have a medium that will last forever, or at least as long as this universe exists. Granted it would probably be a tiny amount of data that each photon could carry but if we could somehow create quantum entanglements of multiple photons we might be able to increase the amount of data recorded and potentially retrieved at some future date.
I have no idea how or if this could be done, but photons or some other subatomic particle might be the only thing that has the potential to last forever.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by fakedirt
reply to post by digitalbluco
 


not too sure about forever but i think the best candidate for data storage would be in the dna with specific markers engineered to copy the required data into the next host/recipient and so on and on. every other medium i suspect would be at the mercy of decay/environmental considerations. so as long as humanity/life exists, the information would survive.
fakedirt.


I have been theorizing this use of DNA for years...

Star to you....

As to the OP's question, I think it is logical to conclude that NOTHING lasts for ever, that there is no way to accomplish this task.

Though, I think the closest one could come to "forever" would be to systematically eliminate as many destructive things involved in the deterioration of a "thing"

i.e. create some sort of container that holds the data, then eliminate as many things around the container i.e. environmental elements, as possible, then toss it into the vaccume of space on a trajectory that would carry it past any spacial element that could destroy it.

It would literally travel forever in that direction.

Now, retrieving it would be the problem

edit on 1-1-2012 by phantomjack because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 12:15 PM
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Your theory is sound, pardon the pun.

One question though, what is data?

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by MeesterB
I think water lacks the order required to store electronic information. Maybe if it was frozen in a very particular way, but then you might as well just use crystals. I also think water molecules are too polar for electronic data storage.



We have found that emotion, thought, and possibly sound can in fact affect the structure of water..
As far as lacking the order to store information, most electronic information is stored and communicated through a binary system.. which is extremely simple. 1's and 0's. "writing the code" would be the hard part IMHO.

I think you hit the nail on the head with crystals, as they can store electricity.
I also think Glass is the next large format information storage medium.

Now, as far as today's tech goes it would depend on the information needed to be kept, but polymers tend to outlast men, and I think a laser etched "CD" could be made quite durable, and would probably last for a few hundred generations if made from the right stuff.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by phantomjack
 

the so-called junk dna could well indeed be carrying dormant and redundant information. i would speculate we haven't yet scratched the surface of switching on packets between markers. possible upgrade?

another interesting consideration is from a documentary i saw regarding the eye. a specific marker number was switched off in the eyes of an unknown number of different species. that one specific marker number caused the same effect in all the species. their conclusion was that we all must have evolved from the same eye or to put it slightly better, there must have been one original eye that all eye-possessing species received the information from.

the similarities between dna and the i-ching are astounding. a couple of thousand years difference between them in terms of established current understanding. apologies for not having any further information at hand, i will look on the stand-alone.

regards fakedirt.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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fubar for the txt version.
edit on 1-1-2012 by fakedirt because: i will try again



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 01:46 PM
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i found joseph p farrells works on the question very interesting. the i ching
and dna having identical characteristics.

dna
has existed since life began
all the vital processes of all living creatures whose structure,
form and heredity are programmed in precise detail universal claim
the basis is plus and minus double helix of dna

i ching
all processes of living development throughout nature are
subject to one one strictly detailed program (universal physical, metaphysical,psychological,moral claim)
the basis is the manifestation of the world principle in the primal poles yang(__) and yin(_ _)

dna
four letter are available for labelling this double helix: a-t,c-g (adenine,
thymine,cytosine,guanine) which are joined in pairs.

i ching
four letters suffice for life in all its fullness 7=resting yang ---
9=moving yang --- 8=resting yin - - 6=moving yin ¬ *


dna
three of these letters at a time form a code word for protein synthesis.
the direction in which these code words are read is strictly determined

i ching
three of these letters at a time form a trigram, a
primary image of the possible eight dynamic effects.
the direction in which the trigram is read is strictly determined


dna
there are 64 of these triplets known whose property and informative power has been explored.
one or more triplets program the structure of one of the possible 22 amino acids; quite specific
sequences of such triplets program the form and structure of all living
creatures,from the amoeba to the itidescent peacock's feather.

i ching
there are 64 double trigrams precisely designated and described by Fu-Hsi (3000 B.C.0 in very vivid and
precise images of highly specific dynamic states (e.g., "breakthrough" or "oppression") with in each
case six possible variations of this state and subsequent transformation into another one of the 64 hexagrams-a
program of fate,as it were,in which each individual is at all times placed to operate the "switch" of fate,from
which point onwards the "train" continues along its appointed "line"


dna
two of the triplets have names:"beginning" and "end." they mark the beginning and end
of a code sentence of some length.

i ching
two hexagrams have names: 'before' completion and 'after' completion' (frequently opening and closing "melodies of
fate" in the oracle)



above is Schonberger's table of dna i-ching comparisons.
this information is courtesy of joseph p farrells book-genes,giants,monsters and men.
i typed it in txt so please forgive any omissions.
hope you find it of interest
regards fakedirt



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 06:30 PM
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I don't know of any such material, but I guess writing on stone has proven to be the longest record we have found that works. Data storage on CDs and disks are not good as the technology will eventually become obsolete. Books need replacing at least around 50 years or so.
The only thing I've heard of that is meant to last forever is the satellite that they launched into space a few years ago with a golden disk on board. The disk held all kinds of info about earth and because it is made out of pure 99.99% gold they said it could last indefinetely in space until something pulls it into its orbit or something collides with it.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by BadNinja68

Originally posted by MeesterB
I think water lacks the order required to store electronic information. Maybe if it was frozen in a very particular way, but then you might as well just use crystals. I also think water molecules are too polar for electronic data storage.



We have found that emotion, thought, and possibly sound can in fact affect the structure of water..
As far as lacking the order to store information, most electronic information is stored and communicated through a binary system.. which is extremely simple. 1's and 0's. "writing the code" would be the hard part IMHO.



If the structure of water can be effected by emotion, thought, and sound, then it makes it a less stable storage system IMO. Data can be stored in crystals because of the ordered crystalline structure.

I also can't see any way for a water molecule to be put in a particular state to define a 1 or 0. Especially in solution where trillions of interactions happen instantaneously.(hydrogen bonding, auto-dissociation of water, ect).



posted on Jan, 4 2012 @ 06:09 PM
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Years ago when I used to listen to NPR I remember they did a gag on April fools day where they were doing interviews with the audio archive keeper for the library of congress in the form of a normal NPR news story.

The archive keeper said that he was in the process of transferring all the historically important audio recordings to the perfect recording medium so they would last forever.

He said he was transferring everything to 78 rpm records.

Snopes link



posted on Jan, 4 2012 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by digitalbluco
 


You simply cannot.
It is hard to comprehend a thousand years, even moreso a million, but what about a billion?
The things we see daily will last days, years, decades, maybe if lucky millenia.
But forever is a long time.
I believe myself that the world has lost so much more than we will learn in our lifetimes to the ages.
Don't sweat it though, just LIVE, not survive but live and let time do what it does, just pass.



posted on Jan, 5 2012 @ 07:36 AM
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I think an out of the box option that few consider is that data already is recorded and is being recorded as we speak and do etc.

Ancestral memory or 'folk' memory of a people is uncorruptable but requires either great insight or OBE type experiences to find and look for it.
That would be the real deal as you wouldn't need to rely on possibly flawed, altered or tampered data that what we have now is vulnerable to.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 05:46 AM
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reply to post by digitalbluco
 


I have a very simple solution.
Place it "inside" an immortal jellyfish somehow.
Now you would have to make sure the jellyfish is not devoured, but in theory it should carry the imbedded data forever.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 09:39 PM
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etched in metal or rock should last along time as long as not exposed to elements but my be hard to carry .
if you access to a computer a jump drive might work. i have that has data on it from like 6 years ago that still works fine and you can find them in sizes up to 256 gigs. or even micro sd cards



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 09:40 PM
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Well you can store data on rocks already, the technology has been around for ages almost since the dawn of man. Simple chisel the information on to the rock problem solved. Worked for the Egyptians.


OT: You can't store information forever, eventual everything breaks down in less you periodically keep moving the information(data whatever) into a new a form.
edit on 1/25/2012 by Mcupobob because: (no reason given)

edit on 1/25/2012 by Mcupobob because: (no reason given)



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