The Speculative Society

Janus,

I was referring to Gadfly in that post, not you. He usually makes grand assumptions based on scanty evidence, if any.

Im not familier with the Orginisations you named, im a bit of a novice at this secret society thing, but what would happen if the Society that the Mason was asked to join asked him to disclose any secrets or information regarding any other society he was a member of i.e. the Masons, would he refuse? Does Masonry demand anything like that from their initiates? If you are allowed to tell me of course.

Post directed at Masoniclight

[edit on 10-9-2004 by Janus]

Originally posted by LTD602
Janus,

I was referring to Gadfly in that post, not you. He usually makes grand assumptions based on scanty evidence, if any.

Ah, sorry please accept my appologies.

hey, no sweat, Janus.

Originally posted by Janus
Im not familier with the Orginisations you named, im a bit of a novice at this secret society thing, but what would happen if the Society that the Mason was asked to join asked him to disclose any secrets or information regarding any other society he was a member of i.e. the Masons, would he refuse? Does Masonry demand anything like that from their initiates? If you are allowed to tell me of course.

Post directed at Masoniclight

[edit on 10-9-2004 by Janus]

I know that I am not MasonicLight but I find the answer very simple. Why would you need to divulge any information about the other society? If asked questions from one society regarding another society, IMO one would not be entitled to answer, as an oath is an oath and you should by no means brake your word. This is demanded even in court by taking an oath that you will tell the truth (granted there are some that just have no honour, but such is life), so by taking an oath (we all know that Freemasons take oaths) you are bound to that oath, if that oath is broken and another mason finds out, you may be expelled (kicked out)(I think they use a different word than expelled).

Edited- spell check

[edit on 10-9-2004 by amike555]

Then there would be no chance of divided loyalties between the two. Thanks for that
Still, a very interesting topic. Id like to learn more about the "Spec" and also about something called P-2? Some kind of reverse Masonic lodge, built on deciet and murder apparently.From what ive read so far it was dissavowed early on by mainstream Masonary. Seems that Scotland isnt the only one thats had a corrupt orginisation pulling stringsat high levels of government.

Originally posted by Janus
Im not familier with the Orginisations you named, im a bit of a novice at this secret society thing, but what would happen if the Society that the Mason was asked to join asked him to disclose any secrets or information regarding any other society he was a member of i.e. the Masons, would he refuse? Does Masonry demand anything like that from their initiates? If you are allowed to tell me of course.

Post directed at Masoniclight

I think Mike's answer is absolutely valid. To use my previous example, Masons and Elks are completely different fraternities. The secrets of Elkdom have nothing to do with Masonry, and vice versa. But if an Elk were to be required to divulge the secrets of Elkdom in order to join the Masons, he would of course refuse, and vice versa.

Fiat Lvx.

Elkdom. lol. I keep picturing the animal.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Janus
Im not familier with the Orginisations you named, im a bit of a novice at this secret society thing, but what would happen if the Society that the Mason was asked to join asked him to disclose any secrets or information regarding any other society he was a member of i.e. the Masons, would he refuse? Does Masonry demand anything like that from their initiates? If you are allowed to tell me of course.

Post directed at Masoniclight

I think Mike's answer is absolutely valid. To use my previous example, Masons and Elks are completely different fraternities. The secrets of Elkdom have nothing to do with Masonry, and vice versa. But if an Elk were to be required to divulge the secrets of Elkdom in order to join the Masons, he would of course refuse, and vice versa.

Fiat Lvx.

Thanks for your reply, a truly facinating subject.

Originally posted by LTD602
Elkdom. lol. I keep picturing the animal.

In Elks Lodges, elk antlers are placed on the Altar along with the Bible, and in the East on the Exalted Ruler's Chair.

Originally posted by LTD602
Elkdom. lol. I keep picturing the animal.

Hmmm, I wonder what others picture when they think of 'various' organizations?

Originally posted by Janus
Im not familier with the Orginisations you named, im a bit of a novice at this secret society thing, but what would happen if the Society that the Mason was asked to join asked him to disclose any secrets or information regarding any other society he was a member of i.e. the Masons, would he refuse? Does Masonry demand anything like that from their initiates? If you are allowed to tell me of course.

Post directed at Masoniclight

[edit on 10-9-2004 by Janus]

Masonry does not ask me to disclose anything. Masonry demands that I act in an honorable manner, but leaves it to the individual mason to determine what that means. I have given a promise to MYSELF and my brothers, to keep what I learn to myself. If I had taken a similar oath somewhere else, it would also apply. As every candidate is told: this obligation, "...this obligation, I assure you, will not interfere... it appertains to masonry alone..."

because it does not ask a brother to do anything that would dishonor himself or masonry.

Originally posted by theron dunn

Originally posted by Janus
Im not familier with the Orginisations you named, im a bit of a novice at this secret society thing, but what would happen if the Society that the Mason was asked to join asked him to disclose any secrets or information regarding any other society he was a member of i.e. the Masons, would he refuse? Does Masonry demand anything like that from their initiates? If you are allowed to tell me of course.

Post directed at Masoniclight

[edit on 10-9-2004 by Janus]

Masonry does not ask me to disclose anything. Masonry demands that I act in an honorable manner, but leaves it to the individual mason to determine what that means. I have given a promise to MYSELF and my brothers, to keep what I learn to myself. If I had taken a similar oath somewhere else, it would also apply. As every candidate is told: this obligation, "...this obligation, I assure you, will not interfere... it appertains to masonry alone..."

because it does not ask a brother to do anything that would dishonor himself or masonry.

So what do you think of the Speculative Society Theron? People who have posted here seem to agree that they are not Masonic in nature but do you think that Masons, as im sure some of the specs members are, should be allowed to be party to an orginisation with such potential for corruption?
From what ive read about them they are mainly made up of Judges and Lawyers who graduated from Edinburough Law School.Its quite an old Society formed in the 1700's, not as old as Masonary,and has had some quite powerful members of the years.I try to take any stories i may hear about any group of people with a pinch of salt but they do seem quite a shady bunch.
As they say themselves all they are is a debating Society but the potential for corruption seems out of preportion to their size.No one knows what their rules of conduct are were as those of Masonary are well known.Do you think that people such as Judges, Lawyers, Policemen should be members of Secret Societies? Do you think that their loyaly to their Brothers will some times be at odds with their loyalty to the Law and Justice?

[edit on 12-9-2004 by Janus]

Originally posted by Janus
So what do you think of the Speculative Society Theron? People who have posted here seem to agree that they are not Masonic in nature but do you think that Masons, as im sure some of the specs members are, should be allowed to be party to an orginisation with such potential for corruption?
From what ive read about them they are mainly made up of Judges and Lawyers who graduated from Edinburough Law School.Its quite an old Society formed in the 1700's, not as old as Masonary,and has had some quite powerful members of the years.I try to take any stories i may hear about any group of people with a pinch of salt but they do seem quite a shady bunch.
As they say themselves all they are is a debating Society but the potential for corruption seems out of preportion to their size.No one knows what their rules of conduct are were as those of Masonary are well known.Do you think that people such as Judges, Lawyers, Policemen should be members of Secret Societies? Do you think that their loyaly to their Brothers will some times be at odds with their loyalty to the Law and Justice?

Well, as a mason, the objective is to act in an honorable and moral way before g-d and man. If this group you mention does not, then it would not be good for masons to be associated with it. HOWEVER, and here is the big if, since the same is said of masons with no proof or factual basis, I would be loathe to paint this group with the brush of imfamy without knowing facts, and since none have been presented other than OPINIONS...

Thanks for the answer Therun, of course you are right, all there really is is speculation, but then thats all we have about any Society that choose's to keeps it activities secret. I have no problem with any society that works for the good of the community, whether secret or not.But a group that contains Judges and lawyers and keeps its activities secret unsettles me.
If they are tweaking laws for their own ends then that is an abuse of power that really cannot be tolerated.But as you say, as long as they secret then it will breed distrust in the Scottish legal system as it breeds distrust in the Masonic movement.

[edit on 12-9-2004 by Janus]