Why is it "so" important for Christians to confess Jesus as their Lord?

reply to post by jmdewey60

You also said quoting the Bible is a "special pleading" fallacy.

No, I did not JM. I said when you demand another person provide Biblical support for their posts yet you yourself do not offer Biblical support for your own posts without presenting a valid reason why you are exempt from doing what you demand another person do themselves is a "Special Pleading" fallacy. I've even linked what the fallacy is numerous times so you have no excuse for the apparent ignorance you're now displaying as to what the fallacy is.

Here, I'll link it yet again:

Special Pleading is a fallacy in which a person applies standards, principles, rules, etc. to others while taking herself (or those she has a special interest in) to be exempt, without providing adequate justification for the exemption.

Special Pleading Fallacy

reply to post by Frira

I do NOT disrespect JMDewey-- or you. You two go at it like cats and dogs-- and I generally fall somewhere between the two of you in my own views-- seeing reason on both sides of the arguments you two have-- but not necessarily supporting either.

JMD references some books which I am simply not interested in reading-- we all make such judgements. We are all open minded-- but only to a point. What is that? Something about "being so open-minded that your brain drops out!" So we all have our biases which have already reasoned and thus chose what we accepted and what have not-- having no real impetus to cause us to look back to reconsider yet again-- we have been there and done that already. And still, we came to different conclusions.

Yet how often are you slandered and lied about by this person in these forums? With me it's virtually every time I have contact with this individual. I've been more than patient and I figured ignoring their posts for a time period would rectify the situation. Pleading with them to stop slandering and lying about me has fallen on deaf ears. How long should I put up with lies and slander? Maybe till 2013?

Just a reminder what the thread is about....

Why is it "so" important for Christians to confess Jesus as their Lord? It seems to me, just based off threads I have been reading here, that there is so much focus put on "Jesus" and not enough on "God." God is the big picture, not Christ. Christ is secondary, but throughout the threads when it comes to Christianity, Jesus seems to be the ultimate focus. Why is this "such" a factor alone?

reply to post by Frira


Yes, if you find out let me know. I would love to hear the outcome of what you found. Maybe check out some info on him too. I love a good conspiracy story

reply to post by IblisLucifer

I will throw one back at you that I play mental masturbation games with for hours at a time. What if the biggest deception was actually that he is the Lord? What if part of the deception was for you to actually experience and feel Christ and/or God in all aspects, and then pull the rug out from under you in the end? If he was that good, our minds wouldn't be able to wrap ourselves around that trick for what it really is.

I am not claiming that to be the case at all, but that truly would be the ultimate deception. Then we would really be living in hell, without knowing it just yet. To the amateur and inexperienced, I can't lie and say that I don't worry about this at all. What better deception in this world could one create other than to "not" let you know you are already in hell, give you the complete false hope, only for it to be taken away from you later. If hell is eternal, then it could be a vicious cycle that just goes on for eternity. That's what I would do if I was him, and had that kind of power.

I can't help but toy with this one for hours on end at times. What I say here does no justice for what can go through my head when I entertain it though.

It seems to be that if we can be "so" deceived by him, and the bible says we will be, then we have yet to even understand the ultimate deception he is capable of doing. We here things like the false "Messiah" stuff but how can one truly be ready not to be ultimately deceived.

I don't know...it troubles me when I think about it too much...kind of scary.

That leads me to wondering about my OP and what more there really might be that I don't know yet. Is there truly protection from the "ultimate" deception? We like to think there is but is there really? (rhetoric questions...not that I am looking for a specific answer)

reply to post by NOTurTypical

No, I did not JM.

Here is the link to the post where you said that, NOTurTypical's accusation of "special Pleading" that I was referring to and it was on the thread, believers in jesus...please explain this.., on December 27.
You had been making a very large number of posts on this thread before I came onto it and I noticed (as usual) a lot of wild claims by you acting as if you were the authority on all these different issues, so I looked through some to find what was especially objectionable since I would be working non-stop to correct every wrong statement you make all over this forum. The one I chose to quote to start a conversation with you on this thread was one that I quoted from in my post as reply,

Correct, before Calvary the blood of animals only covered sins. Atonement for sin happened at Calvary.

My reply to this post I quoted from was, "I'm sure you would like to quote a verse for that, right?"
In response to this first reply by me to any of your earlier posts, you said,

Special Pleading Fallacy.

Apparently to you, you can make all the claims you want, in post after post, but the second anyone asks you for something to support your claim, you can scream, 'Special pleading!' for asking for a Bible verse.

reply to post by jmdewey60

but the second anyone asks you for something to support your claim, you can scream, 'Special pleading!' for asking for a Bible verse.

No, I accused YOU of Special Pleading because YOU likewise had numerous posts in that same thread and YOU didn't likewise include any Biblical support for YOUR posts in that same thread.

So the problem is when you demand others provide Biblical support, yet you yourself feel exempt to provide the same Biblical support for your posts that you demand other's do for their posts. That's the "Special Pleading" fallacy. Now, if you had provided Biblical support for all the posts you made in that thread and then asked where my Biblical support was for my posts there would have been no fallacy committed.


You consider yourself "exempt" from the same standards and rules you arbitrarily impose on others without providing a valid reason why you should be exempt yourself I reject providing YOU Biblical support when you refuse to do the same. So, in conclusion, I've never claimed that simply asking for Biblical support is a "Special Pleading" fallacy, it's not. But when you refuse to offer what you demand others offer for themselves is where the problem is.

reply to post by Awoken4Ever


It is so simple my friend.

If I am a politician, who do I say is my master?

The people who vote, right? But we all know that isn't true these days.

They say that because it sounds pretty. It is what you expect them to say.

But if you look at what they actually do, you then see that their true master is there own self interest.



It is easy to say that one has Jesus as their Lord and master.

But open your eyes and look at them. Do they do what that master said to do?

They say they are because everyone knows Jesus was the shiznit. Some are seeking glory by association.

It is much easier than doing.



Now before you judge someone for this, look at yourself. Could YOU do what Jesus said to do?

If you could, you would not pass judgement, but rather understand that it is all part of the divine plan of things.

Everything is fixed.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Awoken4Ever
Just a reminder what the thread is about....

Why is it "so" important for Christians to confess Jesus as their Lord? It seems to me, just based off threads I have been reading here, that there is so much focus put on "Jesus" and not enough on "God." God is the big picture, not Christ. Christ is secondary, but throughout the threads when it comes to Christianity, Jesus seems to be the ultimate focus. Why is this "such" a factor alone?

edit on 3-1-2012 by Awoken4Ever because: (no reason given)

All of Creation has been given to Jesus to judge. It is only through Christ who will judge both beleiver and unbeliver that one can reach the father.

Here as much as I try to understand the 3. I look at it as sort of a family that makes up the variables of one love. In earthly terms Father, Mother, and Son make up the different variables of love. Each part is equally necessary for us to understand love but are all part of one. I believe the 3 is best understood this way. They are all one equally necessary to form the understanding of love. The Son and the Holy Spirit are subject to the father but are equally part of the love that makes up the father. In this way they are subject to the father and one with the father.

In a family the father, wife, and child are one. Weather they are equal is up to you to decide.

My analogy leaves open whatever possibility one would like to come to. If it is easier for you to see the Father, Son and Spirit as completely separate that is acceptable. For some it is easier for them to understand them as one, which is also acceptable. This is why I believe my human analogy is perfect for all believers.

I don’t believe a full understanding of the relationship of the three has anything to do with faith. One only needs have faith in the existence of all 3.

reply to post by Awoken4Ever


The bible says we will all be salted with fire, and that God punishes those that he loves. So if at times in your life you have felt like you were in a sort of hell, then you know that God loves you. God is much like a father and when his children fall away from the intended path they become subject to punishment. We all fall away at times.

Hell I believe is best understood as spiritual death, a complete separation from God, a separation where we know God is real but we also know that we are unable to be with him. We are not in hell but we do get salted with fire. So at times we do feel separated from him which in essence is our own self inflicted hell.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

No, I accused YOU of Special Pleading because YOU likewise had numerous posts in that same thread and YOU didn't likewise include any Biblical support for YOUR posts in that same thread.

None of my posts had anything to do with you up to when I made the post I linked to above.
Also no one asked me for Bible verses to back up my opinions I expressed in my posts. If anyone had, I would have been happy to quote some, but since no one asked, I did not offer.
I would ask you to back up this post (your further accusations against me) by you that I am responding to right now in this post, by showing where I claimed exemption from having to back up any arguments I made.

ATTENTION!!!!!!!!

Reading the last few posts, it's hard to tell what the topic is

So, I suggest we all get back to discussing it:

Why is it "so" important for Christians to confess Jesus as their Lord?

Originally posted by IAMIAM
reply to post by Awoken4Ever

 

It is so simple my friend.

Wish it was "simple." There really is nothing "simple" about it. If it were so simple, so many people wouldn't be lost, confused, and completely missing the boat

But if you look at what they actually do, you then see that their true master is there own self interest.

Agreed, but I can apply this to "many" Christians as well also. I hear you though friend.

It is easy to say that one has Jesus as their Lord and master.

But open your eyes and look at them. Do they do what that master said to do?

They say they are because everyone knows Jesus was the shiznit. Some are seeking glory by association.

What I just said in the last quote

It is much easier than doing.

Disco! Much of that going on in this thread. I notice it's easy to come in and say one thing on a thread such as this. I have also noticed many of these same people aren't in the threads where the "real" meat and potatoes folks are working and discussing. They wouldn't have a chance with those actually walking the walk, so they stay in threads like this and just make claims.

Now before you judge someone for this, look at yourself. Could YOU do what Jesus said to do?

If you could, you would not pass judgement, but rather understand that it is all part of the divine plan of things.

Everything is fixed.

I am not at a place where it is not easy for me to judge at all It's obvious in my response to the last quote I commented on of yours. I am growing, but I am still very weak. The more I become aware of judging, and take care of the things that I am now aware of, the more I understand how much I actually judge and the deeper the rabbit hole goes. Ego is playing many games with me, often where I can't even see it just yet.

Good post, thank you.

reply to post by jmdewey60


It's irrelevant whether or not if I "asked" you to provide the Biblical support or not. You didn't do so of your own volition. That's fine, it's not required for you to post here or to share your take on scripture. But at the same time, you can't expect/demand others to provide Biblical support for everything they share if you yourself don't do the same.

That's the "Special Pleading" fallacy.


"Do as I say, not as I do."


EDIT: Just saw your post DTOM:

For the OP:

It's important for Christians to affirm Jesus is Lord because He is. Or to take an example from civic life:

"Why is it important for Americans to say that Barrack Obama is President of the United States?"

A: "Because he is the President of the United States."

reply to post by Awoken4Ever


Let me give you a little advice on praying. Jesus says ask anything in my name and it will be given to you. But here is the trick that most people forget when they read that verse and why many prayers seem to go unanswered. Jesus also says that he can only do the will of the father.

So you see many people run around praying for material things, which we know by Jesus example isn’t necessarily the will of the father. But you are having a problem understanding what is and isn’t judging. So you see if you pray for clarification, this is the will of the father, and you will be given clarification.

One thing to understand, there is a sort of double standard in the bible. If your brother or sister, who in this term is anyone who claims to be a follower of Christ is doing something wrong it is acceptable to correct them. It is best to always use scripture to correct them so they know it is not coming from you but from scripture. Correcting a brother or sister is simply that. We don’t have to add weight to their transgression, so we correct them without judging anything more than right and wrong.

For the unbeliever we are never instructed to judge them. We are only to encourage them to accept Christ, if they refuse than we are to leave them, and allow God to be their judge.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

That's the "Special Pleading" fallacy.

You are reinterpreting the term so that it only applies to me while you can claim exemption yourself since according to you, I am in the habit of saying things without including verses.
This is your own special pleading, to me, just with some really twisted logic behind it.

reply to post by Awoken4Ever


It's simple, you do not understand correctly.

The World knows not Love apart from Christ. For God is Love and we know His love because He gave us His son to die for our sins. To deny God's love in Christ would be to deny God himself. Self-righteousness cannot save us, being good enough cannot save us, nor can works saves us. Jesus is the Word of God therefore how can one live according to the Word in deed and truth without Christ? It simply isn't possible. Therefore we know the example of this man you have given for arguments sake cannot exist apart from selfishness.

The closest example of whom you write would be the rich man who had kept all the commandments all his life. Jesus told him to sell all his possessions, give it all to the poor, and come follow me. The rich man turned away in sadness because he was very rich. The point being salvation is not of works or self-righteousness but in Christ and in faith.

We don't replace God when we rely on Jesus. We replace God when we don't rely on Jesus.

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff
reply to post by Awoken4Ever

 

We don't replace God when we rely on Jesus. We replace God when we don't rely on Jesus.

I like this response a lot. I am going to twirl this one in my mind for a while! Thanks!!

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by Awoken4Ever

 

But you are having a problem understanding what is and isn’t judging. So you see if you pray for clarification, this is the will of the father, and you will be given clarification.

Funny how we "forget" so easily how to pray for the simplest things huh? Dough!

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

That's the "Special Pleading" fallacy.

You are reinterpreting the term so that it only applies to me while you can claim exemption yourself since according to you, I am in the habit of saying things without including verses.
This is your own special pleading, to me, just with some really twisted logic behind it.

See DontTreadOnMe's post above.

We can continue this discussion via u2u if you're still interested.