Why can't we accept that terrorists can have valid claims?

People dont just get all gung-ho for no reason, well sometimes they do but thats a psychological issue, not terrorism.
Its the METHODS terrorists use to attain their goals and demand their claims that is atrocious. The claims can often be valid.

But accusing any western government of anything other than the highest humanitarian and democratic intrests, is just deemed absurd, just simply out of the question. No buts, ifs no nothing! It's just outside of the ideological spectrum. Sorry cant think that 'coz it "just doesn't happen" kind of thing. But if we want to stop terrorism we need to stop western "democracies" from creating it, the difficulty we are having in preventing our countries from creating terror just goes to show how much of a "democracy" we really live in. We simply have no say and don't matter. Well as long as we keep going to work every morning and hate terrorists, that is.
This is the level of indoctrination we are living with. Lable one thing a medicine and it's good" lable the same thing a drug and it's "bad".

Most terrorists do have valid claims and I don't have a problem with them if their primary target is military/military installations.

It's when their primary targets are civilian/civilian installations that I get pi$$ed off.

If I knew of a terrorist who''s primary targets were military/military installations I wouldn't have a problem with him/her...if I knew of one where their primary target was civilian/civilian installations, I wouldn't think twice about capping him/her.

This is where terrorism has got out of hand - they're not only causing more hatred towards them due to civy targets but they are also starting to pi$$ off some of the Islamic leaders as well...especially the thing with targeting the kids...that's just fu(king sick!

Cheers

JS

[edit on 10-9-2004 by jumpspace]

[edit on 10-9-2004 by jumpspace]

[edit on 10-9-2004 by jumpspace]

I agress, most of the time they do have valid points to make, and your right trying to use kids and/or the general public to get said point across is wrong. I don't know about any of you but when civilians are used I stop listening to what the terrorist have to say. It just makes me sick.

Originally posted by Corinthas
But if we want to stop terrorism we need to stop western "democracies" from creating it

Carl Jung would have a field day with the guilt expressed in this one line, HAHAHA, democracy creates terrorism, BWAHAHAHAHA

You have GOT to be kidding? I presume democracy has created other evil as well?

Amazing the POWER of DEMOCRACY.

Take some advice, read a bit of Dr. Glasser's book, CHOICE THEORY. In it one finds the all amazing proposition that PEOPLE CHOOSE BEHAVIOR...

www.wglasser.com...

If we accept that they have a point, we validate the process by which they made their point heard. This only encourages further terror.

Of course they don't have valid claims.

They are terrorists because their 'religion' tells them that any
infidels must convert or die. That would probably include just
about everyone on this board.

That's it. End of discussion for them.

That isn't a 'valid claim' about anything.

Anything else they say is just window dressing to
take people's attention off that fact.



[edit on 9/10/2004 by FlyersFan]

What are there claims? You and I no what they want, world domination. They have in so many words proclaimed this fact. They bring there death and destruction upon the civilian community because that is were it will have the most impact on our political structure.

Muslims have always been barbarians, thats just there nature.

Ok, drop the crack pipe and step away slowly! Their claim is that of an international Islamic Theocracy at any and all costs and the complete destruction of the "infidels." Now do pray tell, explain the validity in that please. Any other claims that they make are merely window dressing for the PC crowd who would (And usually do, appease them).

You got my Way Above vote! Good point! Why can't we accept, that maybe, people don't like being repressed by the dictatorships we support and prop up?
Why are people so insecure?

"Oh no! America can't be wrong! Bad brown people!"
*Runs into corner in fetal position, sucks thumb and clutches favorite blankie, that looks suspiciously like an American flag*

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Of course they don't have valid claims.

They are terrorists because their 'religion' tells them that any
infidels must convert or die. That would probably include just
about everyone on this board.

That's it. End of discussion for them.

That isn't a 'valid claim' about anything.

Anything else they say is just window dressing to
take people's attention off that fact.

[edit on 9/10/2004 by FlyersFan]

That's right. I don't have much more to say. They have valid claims about nothing. They claim that we are infidels and that we must be converted or slaughtered. Now obviously the validity in that claim is astounding, riiiight...

"Oh no! America can't be wrong! Bad brown people!"
*Runs into corner in fetal position, sucks thumb and clutches favorite blankie, that looks suspiciously like an American flag*

I don't think most people are saying "America is right, Muslims are wrong," (or atleast I'm not, and that's the basic impression I get). People are saying "Taking a fundamentalist religious stance and murdering innocent people because they don't comply with your religious standards is a crock of poop," well for the most part. And claiming that everyone in the world should convert to Islam is not a valid claim by any sense of the imagination.

Actually dealings of US toward the middle east during years by different administration and the discovery of oil in the middle east has prompted the increase of interest by other nations when it comes to the middle east land the resentment against US has grown through the years and like any other anger it's has reached it peak, at one point most of them were friendly to the US.

Ask yourselves this question "when did this people became so angry" it was yesterday, a year ago 9/11 or it has been years and years of oppression by their own government and lack of interest by the rest of the world until oil became an issue.

Now US call�s them the enemy, did they were the enemy before that? US become very choosy when it comes to who call enemy, obviously people has forgotten that most of the 9/11 were Saudi nationals, are we enemies of Saudi? Did US bomb the Saudis? No for some reason the masterminded is still loose and we are in Iraq.


This are just unanswered questions and nobody cares to address.

Originally posted by marg6043
Actually dealings of US toward the middle east during years by different administration and the discovery of oil in the middle east has prompted the increase of interest by other nations when it comes to the middle east land the resentment against US has grown through the years and like any other anger it's has reached it peak, at one point most of them were friendly to the US

What? Does this mean, now that I am angry at Islamofacists, that it is justified for me, not the U.S., but me, you know ME, to go into say Mecca, when it is filled with innocent civilians, and kill 3000 of them???

Justify that!

If their claim is that they want all foreigners (Westerners) out of their land, then fine. Come to the table and discuss it, don't blow up the table.

If their claim is that they want everyone to be muslim and for all opposing them to be killed, they've got to go.

Trouble is, no matter what they want, they won't get any sympathy for their cause by blowing up ANYBODY, either civillian or military. Nobody hears the message that's said, they get the message that's shown in scattered body parts and smoke. I don't agree with terrorists targeting anyone because that's not what we're trying to do in the world anymore.

Originally posted by smokenmirrors


What? Does this mean, now that I am angry at Islamofacists, that it is justified for me, not the U.S., but me, you know ME, to go into say Mecca, when it is filled with innocent civilians, and kill 3000 of them???

Justify that!

No, smokenmirrors, no, its not justification, but have you ever asked the question of why the hate US so much? And please don't say is our way of life because that is rubbish, why is so hard for US to get it's arse out of that land, tell me what is in the middle east that this nation has to risk troops and the scorn of the international community, what it is? Tell me. We already avenge 9/11 with a justify bombing on Afghanistan, even when bin-ladin is still missing from action.

Do you thinks that the Islam nations are going to be happier with US from all these.

You know why, because is all about the power of control, US can not allowed to let Islamic radicals control the oil in the middle east.

Man ... What is in the desert that we need to get. LoL .. You idiots ... the whole U.N. is in Afganistan .... from Chile, Russian, Chinese ... troops ... DO RESEARCH !!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by marg6043

have you ever asked the question of why the hate US so much?

tell me what is in the middle east that this nation has to risk troops and the scorn of the international community, what it is?

Do you thinks that the Islam nations are going to be happier with US from all these.

They, I assume we are talking evil, rabid, terroristic, muslims, they hate the U.S. because they CHOOSE to hate the U.S. Many muslims CHOOSE NOT to hate the U.S. yes? Or do ALL muslims hate the U.S.???

Why, if U.S. presence in so called HOLY lands is so evil, are ALL MUSLIMS not enraged? This leads to but one conclusion, and that is, these terroists CHOOSE to kill innocents, period, they are killers, end of story.

Why can't we accept that terrorists can have valid CLAIMS (emphasis added)?

They can.

However, the DELIBERATE targetting of innocent civilians, women, and children is not a valid MEANS of acheiving your goals.... If such people are allowed to use this as a tactic, and then actually achieve their goals through it, you do nothing but create more such terrorists, as you've just legitimized it as a tactic.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Of course they don't have valid claims.

They are terrorists because their 'religion' tells them that any
infidels must convert or die. That would probably include just
about everyone on this board.

That's it. End of discussion for them.

That isn't a 'valid claim' about anything.

Anything else they say is just window dressing to
take people's attention off that fact.



[edit on 9/10/2004 by FlyersFan]

i think some of us are making the mistake that all terrorists are muslim..this is wrong..most terrorists are muslim..but not all..what about the real IRA and the omagha atrocity..what about ETA...what are their agendas?
i think as soon as a group commits acts of terrorism they then choose to live by the sword..and we all know what that means
correct me if i am wrong but i seem to remember some americans funding the IRA
and the USA and UK arming al quiada so they could fight the russians

[edit on 10-9-2004 by Heratix]

[edit on 10-9-2004 by Heratix]

Doesn't matter who armed who as far as this discussion goes. Not all terrorists are muslim, but all terrorists are terrorists. All should be dealt with like cockroaches and wiped out. Any claims they might have lose any shred of validity as soon as they employ the tactics they use. Their methods cannot be rewarded by capitulation.