The United States – A "Propagandist" Rogue State by Definition, page 4

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reply posted on 1-1-2012 @ 07:23 PM by SayonaraJupiter

reply to post by crankyoldman

At first you were talking some sensible things with regard to propaganda effects but then you ended it with

sadly Iran will not fall in line and is destined to be nuked as an example to any future rogues.

Let me use some of my own propaganda magic here and transform your last line to:
"Sadly, the banks will not fall in line and are destined to be nuked as an example to any future banks."

reply posted on 1-1-2012 @ 07:23 PM by ElectricUniverse

reply to post by SpeachM1litant

Tell us, why has the United States failed? Who has caused the economic crisis, and who made all Americans slaves of the rich banker elites known as the Feds? Leftwing ideologues like Woodrow Wilson, and the progressive democrats in the 1910s, who in 1913 signed in the Federal reserve Act, and implemented progressive taxes on everything and funded the IRS, among other things, as it exists today...

If the leftwing ideologues hadn't been able to install the Feds in power there wouldn't have been a world economy used by the world bank, or the IMF.

None of these "world organizations" would have existed which would have made each country and the people living in such countries not only free economically, but free from the tyranny of global governance which is a providence of leftwing ideology.

edit on 1-1-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 1-1-2012 @ 07:39 PM by Blarghdt

Well I guess this is the opposite of Newt Gingrich's stance on Romneycare.
"Radical Left-Wing Social Engineering"

reply posted on 1-1-2012 @ 09:09 PM by SheopleNation

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Pretty much. International Banksters support international Socialism. However, it's way past a left or right thing at this point. Both parties in the U.S are controlled by the masters of puppets. The most recent RIGHT-WING stance against them was Adolf Hitler. Today the only foe they have left in the World is Red China. All they need to do now is start a World War with them in order to get out of their debt. It will all be done for the freedom of The Chinese people of course.

~SheopleNation

reply posted on 2-1-2012 @ 05:58 AM by steveknows

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by HeavierThanLight

It's also much easier to turn a blind eye to your nation's behavior and crimes in the world.

These issues are popular because they happen to be true.

~Keeper
edit on 12/31/2011 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

Harry Potter and Lord of the rings are popular as well so something being true or not true can't be judged by how popular it is. The American perception that other countries have never had the standard of living or level of technology as the U.S is a popular perception in the U.S as well but simply isn't true as there's always been other countries with a high a level of living, technology and surplus of food. It's a popular belief but oh so not true..

People will feel happy to not research things when they don't feel the need or have no need to question but educated people, and I know that for the most part people are educated in the U.S as in all the developed world, can also be on the side of the state. There is different truths but people do have a habbit of jumping on a band wagon and believing what they're exposed to and that goes both ways. Just because the belief at the moment is that the U.S is some rogue state is popular it doesn't mean it's true. Or it could even mean that both sides are right.

The U.S isn't blameless and nor should it be blamed for everything. The U.S doesn't live in this world on its own and the other countries aren't non entitiies. The U.S get's to do what it needs to do because, at least most of the developed world, agrees with what it's doing. And if people look real close they'll see that the U.S isn't doing it on its own. There's a clear line drawn in the world and the U.S is not a rouge state. It's playing on the side of a team.

reply posted on 2-1-2012 @ 03:35 PM by tothetenthpower

Originally posted by Flint2011
There are many of us who do not turn a blind eye to our government's negative actions and misdeeds. However, I am still able to voice my opinion and fight for what is right freely. Some may argue this because of laws being passed and yet here I am a US citizen, fully able to express myself. I as many also see the greatness that US citizens have done in this world and do everyday. Judge my country based on a skewed view that is biased if you like. You are free to do so.

Where did you ever get the idea that I was judging the America Population? My thread singles out only the government's actions. It clearly states that it works against it's own people's interests.

But do not forget that the American people are better people than you let on in this thread. I love my country and the people within in it for many reasons. Even when I find great dismay and fault in my Government's decisions, I will always have faith in it's people.

The United States is not perfect. That's a given. It strives to be the best it can be and it is through the people that it achieves this.

I could bash other nations for there inequalities and lack of freedoms and poor records on human rights and liberties. But what would be the point? Every Nation's government is the same essentially. It's people however are not always the same.

Not the same. Similar in how they operate, but the level at which the population has access to the system is what is different. What I am postulating is that although seemingly the most "free" nation and "transparent" nation in the world, the populace knows little or nothing of what the government actually does, in their name.

Which is entirely the system's fault and not the people in general. Although I could discuss apathy here, but I won't generalize all citizens in that manner.

This is the difference between folks like yourself and folks like me. We see the bad in things but we strive to see the good and make good where we can. Judge my government if you will but do not generalize my people. It is the greatest mistake anyone can ever make and I will fight to the last drop of my blood to defend the great people of my nation. Not because of my government but because I have pride in my Nation's people.

I have great pride in every nation's people. What I don't have pride for is the way we are governed, the people in charge. Again, this thread is NOT about the American populace, it's about the government.

Many other Nations have that same pride. I have been to over 40 countries in my life span and I have yet to see any that rival the sincerity and kindness of the United States citizens by far.
edit on 1-1-2012 by Flint2011 because: Typos and mispellings.

You may certainly think that you are the friendliest nation on the planet, I would disagree, but that's only based on personal, biased opinion. There's no winning an argument over whose country is fundamentally better. Only ones that are better managed.

~Keeper

reply posted on 2-1-2012 @ 03:38 PM by tothetenthpower

Originally posted by RSF77

What is wrong here? I don't think it is the OP. We are told all through our childhoods that "this is just the way it is", I am here to say: No, it's not "just the way it is", it is whatever we make it.
edit on 1-1-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)
edit on 1-1-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)

This is essentially my point. Look past the patriotic propaganda and look at what your government is doing in your name.

This isn't an anti-america thread, it's an anti propaganda thread with the US as it's base.

~Keeper

reply posted on 2-1-2012 @ 03:43 PM by tothetenthpower

reply to post by wdkirk

It seems the only way to make anybody think these days is to bring it up through an American Perspective.

After all, you are one of the most influential nations on the planet. A wide change in your thinking, would provoke the same in many parts of the world.

It's true I could have written this about a dozen other countries, but it would not be as effective as this. Not while discussing propaganda.

~Keeper

reply posted on 2-1-2012 @ 03:46 PM by tothetenthpower

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

You are entirely correct in your hypothesis IMO. It's true that individuals and groups can go "rogue" within their own nations. This was more about being able to see through a governments could of disinformation and see what actions it took against you, while claiming to protect you from outside forces.

Let's remember that more people die of heart attacks every year than terrorism. Maybe there should be a war on heart attacks?

~Keeper

reply posted on 2-1-2012 @ 08:19 PM by Unknown Soldier

"Military force is justified only in self-defense; Naked aggression is the province of dictators and rogue states. - Ron Paul"

reply posted on 2-1-2012 @ 10:33 PM by buddha

One trick they use is to find a really bad country.
and say This is what its like to be not free and oppress‘t!

“So! it is bad in the world. but look at hell.
be thank full you dont live in hell!”

So what! it still does not make it right what america is doing to its people.

Patriotism = Propaganda.

reply posted on 3-1-2012 @ 01:48 AM by steveknows

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
"Military force is justified only in self-defense; Naked aggression is the province of dictators and rogue states. - Ron Paul"

That's assuming you have no reason. What if you find out you're under attack even if it's indirect? The best defence is sometimes a good offence.

reply posted on 3-1-2012 @ 09:49 AM by seagull

Stephen Decatur

"My country, right or wrong,"

Perhaps the most misquoted phrase ever... Used by politicians to justify any number of actions.

Stephen Decatur, an early American naval hero, gave the above at a banquet. But most leave out the entirety of the toast...

Here it is, in it's entirety...

Actual toast...

"Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong!"

The first misquoted portion comes across, at first blush, as blatantly jingoistic. The quote in its entirety? Somewhat less so.

Or...

The first describes what used to be called a superpatriot... My country can do no wrong, we are the beacon of all that is good in this world... Yadda, yadda, yadda...

The second? A somewhat more realistic version of patriotism. One loves ones country, but isn't blind to the problems and issues that mar it's character...

My country is, in my not so humble opinion, the greatest place on Earth. But in it's intercourse with other nations, it hasn't always been right...but she remains my beloved home.

That my friends, is where the problem begins. Some think that my country can, and has, done no wrong... Or conversely, it's done nothing right.

Well, it's neither of those things... As with everything on this Earth, the truth of the matter is somewhere in the middle. It's up to us, as it's citizens, to decide when it's right, and when it's wrong. To celebrate the right, and condemn, and fix, that which is wrong.

It's the fixing part that is the most difficult obviously. Voter turn outs in elections are hovering at around 50%... Civic involvement is laughable in all too many places... Apathetic morons who are more concerned with the latest reruns on TV than the fact that our country is headed towards an all too uncertain future...

I don't know all the solutions to the issues confronting us... But I do know this...it won't fix itself.

It's all very well and good to realize we have a problem... Condemning is easy... Let's see about fixing it.

edit on 1/3/2012 by seagull because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 3-1-2012 @ 07:19 PM by Flint2011

reply to post by tothetenthpower

My only objective was to inject my point of view on it as you have done in your OP. If you take anything as an insult then that is your right. I have yet to actually point a finger. I could debate that your entire post was biased but My initial post was to point out that most perceive your statements as bashing. I was quite clear in my sentiments.

Perception is reality. Sorry to say but I am not out to offend you or anyone else. I tend to love my Nation's people more than any other so yes, I can and will admit bias there. Why would I not? I do not however have some ego that I think America is the greatest thing ever and I made that clear in my post as well. Quote everything I say in whatever format you like but I don't buy into the bias dissemination of information for international and globalist objectivity. That's just me though.

Just a side note, I found nothing you said offensive and did not accuse you of anything so no clue why you would draw from what I said as you have. Perhaps a misunderstanding or not a equal communication on my part.

Either way, I do not object to your thread or sentiments overall. I just don't agree.

reply posted on 3-1-2012 @ 07:29 PM by tothetenthpower

reply to post by Flint2011

I took no offense to anything youv'e stated, in this reply or the last. I simply answered your objections to my premise.

I was hoping you would debate the points that I made in my last reply to you. My argument isn't biased at all, considering I am not American, not Anti-American and have shown no bias towards any other country in this thread.

As it is one about the United States. And it's ok if you disagree, you are entitled to your own opinions, but the facts remain the same regardless of belief.

All I pointed out was that under the qualificationst that US uses to deem other nations as rogue or dangerous, it in itself qualifies. So do MANY other nations of the world; but they were the focus of this topic.

~Keeper

reply posted on 3-1-2012 @ 07:37 PM by Flint2011

reply to post by tothetenthpower

I am not debating the sentiment in so much the unbalance of my government, I do find it biased but not anti-American. Far too many people judge an entire nation by it's government. I believe that the US government has gotten way out of hand and has been for along time. But the American people make up for it in the long run for me personally. Again, my sentiments were clear. It was one of pride and to distinguish the difference. Read all the posts and you see them call it propaganda and carry anti sentiments for and against.

I simply wanted to state my sentiments about it overall. Notice that I didn't debate or call it propaganda because that was not my intentions. Debating it on my part won't change the fact that you feel like your view is the only right one though. You have made that clear. I am not one for arguing and debating someone Else's views when they are set in there ways.

reply posted on 3-1-2012 @ 07:41 PM by tothetenthpower

reply to post by Flint2011

I'm actually probably one of the largest flip floppers of opinions on ATS. I've postulated a theory, which I believe and I expect anybody who wants to change my mind to do so, with clever and thoughtfull debate.

Not trying out of fear of losing certainly gets you nowhere not doesn't it?

I have not judged the American People based on the Government's actions. I have judged the United States Government based on their actions over the decades.

I'm quite sure that the bulk of Americans are lovely people who would neve dream take part in the atrocities commited in their name by the government.

This thread was in a way, a method to engage people who may have the idea that the US does no wrong and show them that every nation, even the one they hold so dear to their heart, has blood on their hands.

In order to educate people about propaganda, you must first life the veil from the lies at home, that are spoon fed to you by your media and your government.

~Keeper

reply posted on 3-1-2012 @ 08:00 PM by Flint2011

reply to post by tothetenthpower

I get what your thread was about. There was no fear in my post or lack there of. I simply enaged in so much that your intentions are not a one way street. You must address the grand scheme of it all every where really if you want to avoid being taken as biased. Even though I do believe your post is biased, I do not believe you set out to make Americans look like they are all bad. I simply injected though on the matter. Not debate. Just because we sometimes want people to engage us a specific way or another does not mean they will. My posts are not a debate, an argument nor intended to deviate. I felt compelled to express overall my feelings since you wanted to post about the United States particularly.

Me beign a US citizen and clearly getting that you were not one from the start. I just want to share those feelings. Take note that written form leaves a great deal uncommunicative. I cannot read your mind. I can only contextualize based on how I perceive it and I perceived it as pointing out that the United States doesn't hold up in your subject matter. I simply wanted to point out that the United States cannot be judged by it's government alone and that can be said for any Nation.

I made great effort to show my intentions. I cannot explain it any further. I will not debate with you and I am not afraid to because there is nothing for me to debate here. So please take it as I best intended it or not at all. I was not directed at you in total anyways. I saw so many posts in this thread that were quite clearly emotion driven and even our right dismissive of your intentions as I best get them. I hope you understand now.

reply posted on 4-1-2012 @ 11:11 AM by mkgandhas

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

hey pro-american propagandist,admit the crimes of USA.