The United States – A "Propagandist" Rogue State by Definition

Hello ATS,

I expect this thread to perhaps garner a bit of controversy, and as well I have a feeling this has been done before in one way or another. Although my main body here will focus on the United States and how it’s become a rogue nation, according to its own standards; this thread will also focus on the propaganda of the word “rogue nation” or “rogue state” as started by the United States.

A history of the word.

The term “Rogue Nation” or “Rogue State” was first brought forth by US officials in the late 1990’s, in reference to North Korea, Cuba, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and Sudan.

** It’s interesting to note that Afghanistan, Iraq & Libya were removed from that list after widespread military action was taken by the US.

During the last term of the Clinton Presidency, Madeleine Albright, then secretary of state, proposed changing the term to “states of concern”.

The term resurfaced during George W Bush’s presidency, prior to the invasion of Iraq, and also resurfacing the term “Axis of Evil” as well, in reference, to Iran, North Korea & Iraq.

Attempting to find what qualifies as “Rogue”.

Can be a bit difficult, considering the US hasn’t released official documents detailing how they choose who gets to be apart of this wonderful group of countries who apparently support terrorism and who are a global threat. (Any that I’ve found anyway.)

Some critics have said the term is just an excuse to paint US enemies, whether military, economic or otherwise, as terrorist nations. Which given the reasons for war in Iraq and the recent involvements of its military in Libya (see Gold Dinar) could certainly be argued effectively.

So then it falls on the looking at what US officials have used as arguments when discussing rogue nations.

The usual talking points include:

• Funding terrorist organizations ( either in public or through black ops)
• Assisting in arming or training paramilitary organizations in an effort to carry out actions of terrorism.
• Providing asylum to known terrorist leaders.
• Attempting to gain WMD’s in spite of non-proliferation treaties.
• Human rights abuses towards their own citizens or other nation’s. (via direct military intervention, economic sanctions or legislation meant to deter democratic process.

(If I’ve forgotten any important ones, please feel free to add them to your replies.)

So just how many of these qualifiers does the US fall into?

The truth is many of them.

Funding terrorist organizations.

Anybody with a clear understanding of clandestine operations outside the US, carried out by US special forces or 3 letter agencies such as the CIA or FBI, could effectively argue that those actions were of Terrorist Nature.

Those agencies, by association are therefore terrorist organizations. There’s a lot more that could be said here regarding these organizations and their crimes according to international as well as domestic law, but that’s another thread entirely.

Assisting in training or arming of paramilitary organizations.

It’s a well known fact that the US government has trained many paramilitary organizations across the globe, some of which have then turned into terrorist organizations. Al-Qaeda comes to mind.

Providing asylum to known terrorist leaders.

Although no contemporary documentation or proof exists, (other than postulated theories of connecting the dots to various events) past US government operations such as “Project Paperclip” and various others moved known war criminals from their respective countries, into the United States for various reasons.

Also one could argue that after the Economic Crash of 2008, the United States did nothing to persecute those who committed financial terrorism by gambling people’s futures.

Many think these economic events were all planned in advance in order to further the agenda of the PTB.

Attempting to gain WMD’s

The US claims its nuclear weapons program is now more about dismantling them and removing them from the hands of terrorist; however the US still holds one of the largest stock piles in the planet. And as conspiracy theorists, it is only proper that we consider the possibility of on going research to refine nuclear weapons for tactical use.

Human Rights Violations

Not only can we argue the United States has committed crimes against humanity on multiple occasions, they’ve also create a concentrated effort at home to reduce the freedoms of the individual.

From “Free Speech Zones” to Homeland Security, over zealous TSA agents and domestic law enforcement, the US has a clear track record ( over the last 15 years specifically) of attempting to squander the thoughts and wants of the average American Citizen.

Also by applying economic sanctions on other countries, which some critics ( including myself) end up hurting more the people of that nation as opposed to the government, this could also be construed as a form of “Financial Terrorism”.

Propaganda at its finest

If there’s anything that the United States learned from watching Nazi Germany was how to create a nation of obedient workers, who asked no questions, so long as the element of f ear existed.

It was first done successfully during Vietnam and the Cold War and resurfaced as strong as it ever was after 9/11. We all remember the White House Press Conferences when Donald Rumsfeld or another of his cronies would come out and say “Today is blue day, no green, no orange”.

The ability to use fear as a weapon is a very important factor in the United States being able to carry out it’s day to day operations, as well as it’s “World Police” mentality, without the people of the United States having the proper information to tell them to stop.

This also includes revisionist history, where the winners get to write the text books and the children of today are taught to have an almost religious worship of their country.

“Patriotism” as it has become today in the United States has been, along with fear, the biggest tools used by our masters in order to enslave our minds and use your hard earned dollars to start conflicts that are not in your interest.

Today we see the same kind of tactics surrounding Iran. It’s easy for somebody who has been around a while to see the clear signs that the war drums are beating. That the curtain is closing on another conflict, therefore another must come up to continue gathering the Benjamin’s so to speak.

The entire US economy was re-tooled after 911 to serve as a military industrial complex. Without the spoils provided by war, the United States would not be able to carry on at its current pace, without widespread poverty and fiscal issues.

Which funny enough is exactly the position we see the country sliding into today.

(continued)

(continued from above..)

Another point of contention in contemporary propaganda are inter-country legislation, which publicly are touted as being better ways of protecting the people, or making trade easier, when with history as our guide, can be easily distinguished as further removal of our rights and privacy.

The Patriot act in the United States was the first far reaching piece of legislation that accomplished legalizing crime committed by the government.

Now today we are faced with the new Per imeter Security legislation, in the works by President Obama and Prime Minister Stephen Harper, which effectively makes the sharing of information between the countries easier.

(Further reading.)

As in giving DHS access to Canadian's files and vice versa. As in allowing American LEO's to come into Canada's borders to catch fugitives or effectively "self extradite" Canadian citizens.

And I would assume that those rights would work both ways. Although the legislation linked above doesn't discuss what I have in those terms the possibility of these outcomes are certainly present.

They should worry all of us.

This continues the long standing Western tradition of sacrificing freedom for security. Or at least a false sense of security.

Doublethink as described by George Orwell:

To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget, whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself -- that was the ultimate subtlety; consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word 'doublethink' involved the use of doublethink.

The vast majority of Western Media and the government consistently use Doublethink as a means to fool you into agreeing with their agenda. Be aware of it.

Propaganda cannot affect you if you see it coming.

“When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.”

--Thomas Jefferson

I hope this thread makes you think. I am not saying I am 100% correct in these declarative statements I have made. These opinions and thoughts are the result of years of watching the chess board and making up my own mind based on the information I’ve been given and found.

Whateva! Its just fashionable to jump on the bandwagon and claim USA is the next 1940s Germany etc.
Try living in a true totalitarian state and then revisit what you have written.
God Bless USA the bastion of democrasy and freedom.

reply to post by HeavierThanLight


It's also much easier to turn a blind eye to your nation's behavior and crimes in the world.

These issues are popular because they happen to be true. Sure there are far worse places to live in the world, but none more controlled.

The most enslaved nation on the planet is the one where the people believe they are free, but really have never been.

ETA: Also my argument for them being a rogue nation, uses their own definitions. I didn't make these qualifications up, they did.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I wish I could add more to this, but I honestly think you've covered the bases on this one.

Sad to how far this country has come in my lifetime...and I am less than 30

Thats poppycock, just more propaganda spread by enemy agents to try and create instability. I bet you speak fluent Russian and meet with a gentlemen in his 50s once a week in a public place. He will always be carrying a copy of a certain newspaper, and you will always offer him a pepperoni sandwich.
Shortly after you receive your new instructions.

Originally posted by HeavierThanLight
Thats poppycock, just more propaganda spread by enemy agents to try and create instability.

Actually in this case, as the OP stated, the proganda/definitions being used are coming straight out of the FED's playbook.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

These issues are popular because they happen to be true. Sure there are far worse places to live in the world, but none more controlled.

None more controlled? None? Zip? Zero? Nada?

Do you mean no populace / society more controlled?

If so what about...

China? Saudi Arabia? Burma? Equatorial Guinea? Eritrea? North Korea? Somalia? Sudan? Tibet? etc..

The people in those countries are more free than those in the US?

I freely admit the US is no bed of roses at times, but I don't' see how its the most controlled?

reply to post by Frogs


Ah, excellent question.

The people of the countries you listed, KNOW they are limited in their freedoms. They know the extent of the governments power as the government reminds them consistently.

The West has a habit of removing rights, while making you think they are giving you more rights.

It's almost like mind control. It's a troll on your mind to make YOU think you live in the "Land of the free", when really you don't'.

IMO the West was a giant social experiment carried out by the 400 families.

Here's an interesting article regarding the Illusion Of Freedom (try to ignore the left vs right slant):

whitehouser.com...

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Ahhhh - ok.

Well - it depends on who you ask to some extent. Say you asked, I dunno - a guy masquerading as an amphibian on a message board. He might say - " But I know my freedoms have been whittled away! Even in the time from when I was a young tad-pole till now they've kept us under tighter and tighter reign and kept a closer watch on us!"

Now some other guy might say, "Everything is for our own good to keep us safe." and follow the official line and say he was still as free as a bird.

So you can't really say that applies to all the citizens.

reply to post by Frogs

Now some other guy might say, "Everything is for our own good to keep us safe." and follow the official line and say he was still as free as a bird.

Well you'd be right, if the actions of said government were to keep people safe, or to make that society better. But we all know their goals is self centered, and includes eroding freedoms in order to attain said goal.

So long as the government has intentions that are opposite of the good will of the people, the perspective quoted above is from a person who doesn't know what is going on, but thinks they do, therefore enslaved.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower

Expect China to make this "list" in the new year.

Originally posted by Frogs
So you can't really say that applies to all the citizens.

In response to your statements, and earlier question...I will simply post this.

No one is more of a slave than he who thinks himself free without being so.

JOHANN WOLFGANG VON GOETHE, The Maxims and Reflections of Goethe

reply to post by superman2012


I'm thinking Pakistan will return to the list as well if relations continue to deteriorate.

God Bless USA the bastion of democrasy and freedom.

reply to post by HeavierThanLight


LOL, thanks for the laugh....not just because you misspelled democracy, but because A) we are not a democracy, we are a republic, and B) bastion of...freedom only remains so in your imagination.

Tell yourself how free we are when all our mainstream media feeds us lies and nonsense, and our information is censored. Tell yourself how free we are when a farmer is considered a criminal for selling milk straight from the cow. Tell yourself how free we are when your daughter is being groped and felt up at the airport while you have to watch, and if you say anything, you will be detained for hours on end with no attorney present. Tell yourself how free we are when a box of Cheerios can say it's heart healthy but a bottle of vitamins cannot.

Lastly, tell yourself how free we are when major corporations like Disney and CBS push for anti-piracy laws and severe penalties for downloading something copyrighted when those same corporations put out the software and the ability to do it.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by superman2012

 

I'm thinking Pakistan will return to the list as well if relations continue to deteriorate.

I don't know if they will if China doesn't make the list. How about we bet 10,000 ATS points?

reply to post by superman2012


Yeah, that's a fair bet

Although I''m skeptical of taking on Superman, but oh well, we'll see.

Back on topic:

What do you think the US will use as justification ( in the above listed criteria) to place China in that realm?

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Funding terrrorist organizations

Bank of China sued for financing terrorism

Assisting in arming or training paramilitary organizations in an effort to carry out actions of terrorism.

Their continued presence in Tibet and all the killing.

Providing asylum to known terrorist leaders.

None come to mind besides the atrocity that is happening in Tibet.

Attempting to gain WMD’s in spite of non-proliferation treaties.

Giving nuclear material/sensitive exports to less developed countries.

Human rights abuses towards their own citizens or other nation’s.

Tibet, Tibet, Tibet oh yes, and Zambia.

Don't get me wrong, they aren't any better or worse than any other nation, but, if they continue on their way of not bending over when the USA tells them to, they might make the list. Correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't Russia looking like the good guy in all of this Iran business? Weird.

reply to post by superman2012


Excellent!

Yeah from the looks of it, the US would have the "ammo" it deems necessary to put China in that category.

I thought about it a few months back when I heard "red scare" in relation to China on a MSM channel.

If anything I think they might use Currency Manipulation aspect of it, since the economy is such a big issue.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Yes, their currency is clearly a point of tension, but, without China selling USA cheap goods and buying all of their bad debt, what would the US do. I have stated in another thread that if the US were to have a war and China got into it, as long as they made China be seen as the aggressor, then if US won the war, they could make China pay reparations and that might get rid of alot of the US's debt that China owns. I don't know how they would do that, but, I am sure somewhere there is a draft report sitting on someone's desk.